TOP 5 MOST INFLUENTIAL STUDS and females of the last 20 yrs

[lvoss]

Nate is not responsible for all the Fanconi out there and there are plenty of studs and dams that have produced it that have no Nate in the pedigree but the fact that he was a good producer means that a lot of his kids were used in breeding programs and as we now know, every single one of them was at best a Carrier if not Affected themselves so his being so heavily used did effect the amount of Carriers in the population.

Again, this is the problem with ANY dog being used so much especially with so many health concerns being late onset where some people may be 2 or 3 generations down before they know they have a problem.

I am also sure there are dogs who were great producers but would never make anyone's top producer list because they just weren't used very frequently so didn't catch people's attention, doesn't mean they didn't produce well.

[YodelDogs]

I'm only going to respond to the "best Basenji" part of the question and say that my favorite Basenji in the past 20 years is Am Ch. Zindika's Johnny Come Greatly. "Johnny" was, in my opinion, a near perfect example of the breed.

[Ambered]

Johnny is gorgeous, thanks for the great picture Robyn!

[tanza]

I think Johnny was more influential in the Show Ring then breeding… at least IMO.

[Terry]

I tend to agree with Pat, he was not bred that much, but he (and Erin) did a fabulous job of demonstrating what Basenjis can do in the ring.

Terry

[Jaroufa]

There is only one basenji that I consider the best,and he was Ch. Djakomba's Spotlight.
Spotty and me where best friends as he stayed with me while his owner,Doris used to go Globe Trotting.I also bred him to my bitch,Cookie 4x's.Had many wonderful pups by him.
Spotty produced 75 Champions.He had the most wonderful temperment and produced that in his pups.

[Janneke]

This thread really made me go::eek::eek:

It can't be good for any breed, especially not a breed with a small genetic basis, to use a male THAT much..

[ComicDom1]

@Jaroufa:

There is only one basenji that I consider the best,and he was Ch. Djakomba's Spotlight.
Spotty and me where best friends as he stayed with me while his owner,Doris used to go Globe Trotting.I also bred him to my bitch,Cookie 4x's.Had many wonderful pups by him.
Spotty produced 75 Champions.He had the most wonderful temperment and produced that in his pups.

I believe Roo is related to 'spotty.' He has a dog named Jaroufa's Light of Djakomba in his pedigree, as his great-grand-dam, I think. His temperament amazes us regularly. You could never hope to meet a more friendly and fun loving dog. He is not aloof in the slightest. Self-reliant, maybe, aloof, never.

He is certainly the most influential Basenji in MY world-view.

Randa

[ComicDom1]

@Janneke:

This thread really made me go::eek::eek:

It can't be good for any breed, especially not a breed with a small genetic basis, to use a male THAT much..

We agree, it seems scary! Any dog bred that much seems excessive. It could be just asking for trouble. Certainly, in the wild, left to their own devices, no creature would be allowed to make such a extreme impact on the genes in the pool. We feel this artificially narrows the gene pool and is bound to have an adverse effect on the breed. Out in the wild, natural selection rules.

Would it not be more beneficial for any breed if the breeders would try to breed in a fashion more similar to natural selection? In other words, prohibit the overbreeding of any individual beyond what would be reasonable in the wild.

There are reasons why this is not encouraged, and in most cases prohibited within human cultures.

If the purpose of breeding is to reproduce and improve the finest traits and genetic characteristics of the breed, then doesn't massive repetition of breeding the same animal defeat that purpose since it doesn't add anything significantly new to the breed and it doesn't perpetuate those traits being carried forward in future generations.

[sharronhurlbut]

This is an interesting question… breeding more isn't better in some cases.

[tanza]

Pretty loaded question…. and it is pretty hard to go back 20/30 yrs and talk about what "was" done... I think we need to look forward.... and what is the right thing to do... I doubt that you will ever get rid of the "popular" sire syndrome... but I certainly do not agree with it... Dogs like Spotty were way over used as were dogs like Nate... Of course now that we have a Fanconi linkage test, we can certainly improve the odds with producing Fanconi. Both lines produced it, there is no doubt about that. Same with dogs coming from Vikentor's Lucky Mountaineer and in some lines Kazor's Dandy Deerstalker, that were line bred and over used. However now we have a pretty common practice of collection and freezing males. It gives a better option of using different dogs to the breeders that are interested is expanding the gene pool with including the Avongara dogs in their breeding programs.

We need to look forward... but still look back as to what happened with the dogs used or over used... what did they do for the breed? And just because we have a linkage test for Fanconi, we still MUST be aware that there are other health concrerns in our breed, PRA comes to mind since we have no DNA test for that. Hips are beginning to be more of a problem.. and if you don't test, you don't know.... add to that Thyroid and Patella's... so much to condsider when breeding... and at the top of the list temperament.. but remember, you can breed what you think is the best temperament going.. but if that puppy is hurting physically.. it will NOT have a very nice temperament...

[lvoss]

When air travel became more affordable so that people could more easily ship their bitch to a stud across the country, popular sire syndrome became a much larger problem.

Pat is right, we can not change what happened 20-30 years ago but we can learn from what has happened. We do need to be aware of popular sire syndrome and the damage it does to the gene pool. We used to have a lot more lines of basenjis then there are today. It can be hard to find pedigrees that do not have the dogs mentioned in this thread in them. Many have several of those dogs in their pedigrees.

We do need to be aware that there are several health issues in this breed and breed responsibly which means not using any one dog so much that you can't find a pedigree without it.

[Jaroufa]

Randa,
Jaroufa's Light of Djakomba was my dog,Lightning.He was the most wonderful dog in the whole world.Sadly,I lost him to the first Diamond Dog Food Recall.
Lightning was a friend to all he meet.
How was your dog,Roo related to my Lightning?

Kathryn

[Jaroufa]

To All,

Spotty was not justed that much.On average he was bred to only one or two bitches a year.There was only one year that I can remember that he was just for more bitches.I know this because he stayed with me for many a breeding season ,and I handled the breeding.Doris was in Europe at the time.

Kathryn

[tanza]

@Jaroufa:

To All,

Spotty was not justed that much.On average he was bred to only one or two bitches a year.There was only one year that I can remember that he was just for more bitches.I know this because he stayed with me for many a breeding season ,and I handled the breeding.Doris was in Europe at the time.

Kathryn

There are at least 60+ litters listed by Spotty on Sally Wallis site… to me that is over the top... this doesn't include ones that never got registered.... but again, we can't go back and change the past... we can only use the information to go forward in making wise breeding decisions

[lvoss]

@Jaroufa:

To All,

Spotty was not justed that much.On average he was bred to only one or two bitches a year.There was only one year that I can remember that he was just for more bitches.I know this because he stayed with me for many a breeding season ,and I handled the breeding.Doris was in Europe at the time.

Here is the number of breedings per year based on the breedings listed in Sally's website.

1979 - 1
1980 - 2
1981 - 5
1982 - 4
1983 - 3
1984 - 4
1985 - 5
1986 - 1
1987 -1
1988 - 12
1989 - 7
1990 - 6
1991 - 5
1992 - 3

I may have missed some in my tallying but I think I got them all. He has 214 offspring listed in Sally's database. That is an awful lot and definitely has an effect on the genepool.

[Jaroufa]

There where 47 litters bred as per AKC.I don't believe there was any litters not reg.
I will ck with Doris,but I do know that for a fact.

Kathryn

[ComicDom1]

@Jaroufa:

Randa,
Jaroufa's Light of Djakomba was my dog,Lightning.He was the most wonderful dog in the whole world.Sadly,I lost him to the first Diamond Dog Food Recall.
Lightning was a friend to all he meet.
How was your dog,Roo related to my Lightning?

Kathryn

Kathryn thanks for posting!

Your Jaroufa's Light of Djakomba (Brindle and White) was bred to Djakomba Streaks Wyoland(Brindle and White). That pairing produced Djakomba's Jumpin Jack Flash(Brindle and White) Djakomba's Jumpin Jack Flash was then bred to FL Danc Hussr (Black and Tan) which produced the Dam of our Basenji Chewy Barrick( Brindle and White). Chewy Barrick was bred to Barricks Diamond(Red and White) that produced our Basenji Roo(Red and White).

Unfortunately for us we lack information on the Sire's side. We have a couple of names that appear as his parents but nothing further back.

On the Dam's side we believe we have all the AKC numbers going back to Jaroufa's Light of Djakomba who came from the pairing of CH. Kazor's Vim 'N Vigor at Sirius and Arubmec's Sage of Djakomba.

By the way our Basenji Roo tested Fanconi clear and should be up on the OFA site.

The Breeder or Back Yard Breeder in Illinois where we got our puppy was given the Sire and Dam from his sister who was in Pa. Even though we followed up with the Breeder and he contacted his sister to get information, his sister did not provide the information to him in regard to the sire's pedigree and so the litter was unregisterable with the AKC. Of course this broke our hearts because we certainly would have shown Roo and since he tested probably clear for Fanconi we would have made him available for breeding. Of course the most important thing in the end, was to give our Basenji the best home possible.

Since all was not in order, Miranda and I did the responsible thing. We had him Fanconi Tested and Neutered. Now we will apply for a Pal number from the AKC so we can involve him in both Agility and Coursing and hopefully with the right training from us and some patience he will have fun and bring home some awards from his participation.

Jason and Miranda

[Jaroufa]

Dear Jason and Miranda,
Thanks for the info. My Lightning's son Djakomba's Jumpin' Jack Flash was sold to someone who was not honest.Since the breeding was a co-breeding,Doris sold her share of the litter.One of them was Jack Flash.He was bought by a person who didn't tell the true and was indeed a puppy mill.
I don't know any info on the dogs who where bred to him.I do know that there where other people who bought pups from the breeding and I had one with me for about 7 months for training.Anyone on Basenji-L would know the story of Herc.

I'm so glad that your Roo is clear and that he is a beautiful dog.Lightning produced great prey drive in his pups that I had raced.I'm sure that your Roo will do well when you get an ILP for him.

Kathryn

[tanza]

@Jaroufa:

There where 47 litters bred as per AKC.I don't believe there was any litters not reg.
I will ck with Doris,but I do know that for a fact.

Kathryn

If you look at Sally's site and her records come from AKC.. obviously there are more litters then 47… some bitches were bred more then once.. maybe that is the difference? And honestly you never know if a pup from a litter was registered or not unless you (or the breeder) personally registered every pup or checked and made sure they were all registered. Years ago.. when a pup was placed as a pet, many owners never bothered to send in the registration.

But again.. in the end.. it is water over the bridge... hopefully we have learned from breeders in the past.. and can get by the "popular" sire syndrome... and expand our gene pool...