cute! pretty sure she's mix
Princess Sparkle...
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OMG! The pups are soooo damn cute! Loved 🥰 that first photo of Tank. It’s amazing how fast they have grown and changed in the past few days! They bring a
to my face! 
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@jengosmonkey - They are looking great and yes Litter training if you spend the time is really easy... so much better than newspaper... LOL. They learn the "potty box" the same as Outside!... I will to a point disagree and agree that having puppies are a wonderful experience. BUT it is not for the faint of heart, things can go wrong...period... and unlike you, they need an experienced helping hand... you had Stella that supported you through the birth and after.... new people to having puppies have NO idea how difficult it can be if something goes wrong or do they know if something is wrong. So you did all the right things having Stella (and me if needed) but it is important that first time breeders need this... it is not something that you just do so your kids can see the "wonder of birth".... OK off the soap box
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@tanza Aaa... not really seeing the soapbox... cause you're right. There're all kinds of reasons everyone shouldn't make puppies. You mentioned some great ones. I was just lamenting that it's been a really fun experience. But, like you said I had and still have Stella, and you, and @Zande. I also remembered things that @DonC had shared here in the past. Haven't seen or read Don in months! I hope he's just really busy and that it's not something more serious.
You also point out that things could go wrong. We were beyond lucky. So far so good with nothing weird, knock on wood. We kinda got gifted with a pretty perfect experience so far. The live camera for Stella was key. She was great during birthing from 3 and half hours away. So, I agree... if you choose to do this find people to help you. You can't know all the right questions to ask until some of the issues are right on top of you. Having someone to ring up quickly was such comfort. It pays off to have multiple experts to check in with.
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@jengosmonkey - For sure... Jengomonkey... just wanted people to know that this is not an easy decision... need to look at what you want from a litter... in your case it was Stella that wanted these babies... this is not something to be taken lightly. There is lots of work but it is rewarding when doing it for the right reason. There is no reason to breed if you are not doing it to improve the breed as was done in this case.... it is fun, exciting... but this was done for the right reasons. To improve the breed. I can tell you about breeding and births that have gone wrong... it is heart breaking... but when you have a wonderful litter it is the best of everything... just do it for the right reasons and with a mentor, as did Jengomonkey... he did it the right way! Hugs my friend
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@tanza I was checking in with my mom tonight and we were talking about breeding. As you'll recall my mom was a Shetland Sheepdog (Sheltie) breeder when I was a kid. I'd mentioned to her that I liked the markings on several of the pups. Mom said that was a short-sighted assessment. She said the standard is #1 and temperament. I'd also mentioned to Stella that there were pups that I felt had really nice markings. She said that markings are down the priority list. That structure and movement are higher and that's why she's going to need to see them in person to assess that.
Correct me if I'm wrong... from a breeder standpoint... you're looking for at least four things:
- Structure
- Movement
- Temperament
- Markings
Are there more? I know Stella has been building her line for 35 years and I think you did for a similar period of time. I just jumped in and bred two dogs she'd built over many generations, so I take no credit for the outcome. But I will say these pups are AWESOME!
I'm learning more about head shape, tail set, tail curl, leg length, ear set, but I'd really like to have a deeper understanding of where veteran breeders have maneuvered this breed over time... and why.
I've heard breeders/handlers/owners struggle with the reality that less people are showing and breeding Basenjis. Kinda true of all breeds. Breeders need to teach us what is/was the vision for this breed. As Carol Webb said in her very awesome YouTube video... "We've bred a lot of the Basenji out of the Basenji" She was referring to aggressive temperament, and I think that was a great goal. I applaud breeders for doing that. But, what else?
If we want people to take on the mantle and move the breed forward... where are we going?
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@jengosmonkey - For me here are the important thing when breeding.
Number 1 is Health
Number 2 is Temperament - right up there with Health
Number 3 is Structure & Movement (one in the same) You can't have good movement if the pup is not sound in Structure.
Number 4 Does the pup fit the Breed Standard - keep in mind that everyone reads the standard different. If you have not go to Basenji.org and order the Illustrated Standard. Note on page 9, the Tri in the picture is my C-Me.As far as Carol's statement, it is true to an extent. Breeders back in the 70's spent years to breed out poor temperaments.
I do not think that markings are important. That said if you have two pups that are the same in 1 thru 4, then you might want to pick the one whos markings are pleasing to your eye. This becomes a personal choice, what one person likes is not what the next person likes. Some like flashy white markings, me just the opposite.
It is expensive to show and takes also of peoples time. Especially if you have kids, they do not want to be stuck at a dog show for the good part of their weekend. But there are many dog sports that are fun for the family.
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@jengosmonkey Sadly, Carol Webb has the right of it partly in the wrong sense. Some people have bred too much Basenji out of the Basenji. Heads for a start - so often long forefaces, pointed noses and a total lack of cushion. Side wrinkle is disappearing too often as well. @tanza has told you to look at the BCOA Illustrated Standard. The red/white head on, I think page 13, is my Firbi. A beautiful wedge head.
The late great Wilma Bauer reasoned that people were learning if you stretched the rear legs back enough, you could hide a multitude of faults and so that set in as a fashion. I prefer Elspet Ford's (equally great and also sadly late) firm conviction that the hocks should be perpendicular under the shelf when stacked, giving the square outline called for in the Standard.
I will stop this theme right there before I bore you to tears and address your comments.
Now we have tests, Health is easier to ensure to a degree. One can avoid some of the worst scourges.
Temperament is paramount because not all the litter are going to become Cruft's BIS winners and many will go to pet homes. When we bought in Donner, my first Basenji, we were warned that he wouldn't be good tempered because he had **** behind him. **** was born and brought up as a kennel dog as were many Basenjis in this country 'way back then. Socialising was not considered important. Donner was born in his breeder's 'dog-room', adjoining the kitchen. He got the same treatment as a wee pup as I learned to give my pups - and as a result was the perfect gentleman at all times.
Breeding to the Standard - which actually covers conformation (construction). You know what you have and unless you are totally kennel blind, you recognise any faults and in choosing your stud dog you look to see how those faults can be remedied. But you don't need to go overboard. Over attention to - say- head shape without taking into consideration - say - length of leg could land you with perfect heads on pigmies.
Movement is very important and to a large extent that is bound up with conformation. However, I have seen excellent, true Basenji movement on a bitch which was totally unbalanced structurally !
And longer cast dogs often seem to have a truer gait. -
As many here might not know the Illustrated Standard was done just a few years ago. Wanda Pooley, long time breeder was one of the main people that put this together. It does not support anyone's breeding or Basenji but to show what the standard should look like. That is why you do not see names on pictures... I am so proud as I know that Zande is also that our dogs were included... and this really supports the standard of the breed.
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@zande said in Princess Sparkle...:
When we bought in Donner, my first Basenji, we were warned that he wouldn't be good tempered because he had **** behind him. **** was born and brought up as a kennel dog as were many Basenjis in this country 'way back then. Socialising was not considered important. Donner was born in his breeder's 'dog-room', adjoining the kitchen. He got the same treatment as a wee pup as I learned to give my pups - and as a result was the perfect gentleman at all times.
I've had this discussion before and my evidence is purely anecdotal, but my first Basenji (back in the sixties) and my second (in the seventies) had the best temperaments of the five I have had. Both were confident, good with strange people, mostly good with other dogs (except Lady was a tad same sex aggressive), and never a problem in the house.
For what it's worth, the dogs sent to the States to perform in the movie "Goodbye My Lady" (in the fifties) also appeared to have had excellent temperaments (and were obviously very trainable), in fact the "star" of the show was adopted by the leading actor because he fell in love with her.
When I went looking for a Basenji in the seventies, all of the adults I saw at various kennels were outgoing, accepting of strangers, comfortable in their homes, and showed no signs of bad temperament. One breeder suggested I blow in her stud dog's face to see his reaction! (a paw brushed over his eyes).
I think with any dog that temperament has to be a primary consideration, right up there with health. Breed Standard in many breeds is at odds with what one actually sees in the show ring (German Shepherds a prime example!), and unfortunately when specific characteristics are accentuated because they are "pretty" much can be lost in other areas. I saw this a lot in Arabian horses.....the emphasis on pretty, dished heads, flat croups, some ending up looking like caricatures of themselves when this was taken to extremes. So far I don't think Basenjis have strayed as much from the standard as other breeds, but I do think we are in danger of losing the essence of the breed when we emphasize pretty at the expense of functional.
"In order to get along with a Basenji, you have to be at least half as smart as the dog!"
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@tanza said in Princess Sparkle...:
Number 2 is Temperament - right up there with Health
Can you explain how you would judge "temperament" in a pup? Isn't that something that is subject to change based on the individuals experiences in life?
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@elbrant I don't think @tanza was meaning making sure of temperament in choosing a pup. She was referring to breeding a litter.
In any case, puppy-buyers should always ask to see parents, or at least Mom, and find out how much socialising the puppy has had. The early days are so very important. Weeks 3 to 6 make or break a pups chances of equanimity !
Obviously a sensible, responsible breeder will pick a stud of good temperament from a line of well natured Basenjis to put a similar natured bitch to. And will take care to ensure the early weeks are well spent - SOCIALISING !
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@eeeefarm The star of the show - was any one of 6 Basenjis used. Some of them male and most of them, I have always understood from Marvin, were supplied by John Crice Rich of 'Story Book' (affix) fame !
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Elbrant, note what Zande said....care in breeding a litter. And it is easy when pups are born to see temperaments as they grow. And those early days are so important to judging a litters temperament.
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@zande said in Princess Sparkle...:
The star of the show - was any one of 6 Basenjis used. Some of them male and most of them, I have always understood from Marvin, were supplied by John Crice Rich of 'Story Book' (affix) fame !
This is the bitch that Brandon de Wilde adopted after the filming was finished. Apparently it was written into the contract that he would have her.
Apparently it was written into the contract that he should have her. Story here .Four males that were also used are mentioned in the story. There is a nice picture of two Basenjis that attended the film's premiere in London's West End....
"In order to get along with a Basenji, you have to be at least half as smart as the dog!"
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@eeeefarm Yes I know that Brandon had her - I have various papers pertaining there unto. But it doesn't alter the fact that 6 Basenjis were supplied by the Story Book Kennel, some of them male ! The markings on the dogs are different ! And as for that terrible yodel !
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@kembe said in Princess Sparkle...:
OMG! The pups are soooo damn cute! Loved 🥰 that first photo of Tank. It’s amazing how fast they have grown and changed in the past few days! They bring a
to my face! ️Ya know... every time I say to myself they couldn't get any cuter, they do. They're really super mobile now. Running, scampering, climbing us, clawing at us, licking and biting at us. When we climb in the x-pen they ALL come flying on top of us now, which is great! These lil' guys are gonna be great people dogs.
The whelping box is coming down today. They've slept in the blanket covered crate (which I learned about here) that's attached to the x-pen for several night now. No screaming or crying so far either. We put Sparkle in with them to nurse just before we go to bed and the pups will sleep all night till about 5:30 to 6:00am in the morning. I may expand their play area again, but we really like having them right in the middle of the family room between the couch and the TV. We vacuum around them every day needed or not, just make additional noise for them.
We're going to start grinding their kibble a bit courser now too. So far everyone seems to be taking to kibble pretty good. Sparkle nurses after breakfast and before bed, but that's it. Everyone's weight looks good.
We've been taking them out two at a time and we let them explore other parts of the house with us right there. They get to feel the couch, the carpet, the tile and generally explore a little bit. I wouldn't call our house puppy proof, so that's why we watch them closely when they're out of the pen.
We've had a few friends, family and neighbors stop by and we always ask them to handle a puppy to get them use to more people. So far so good on that front too; although, Sparkle will give a little growl if someone a person she's not familiar with moves to fast towards a puppy. It's not a really aggressive growl. More of a "Hey! I'm watching you!"
@tanza, @Zande Thanks for the great info. I couldn't find Illustrated Standard, but was able to find it to download, thank you for making that available. You know who you are. I liked both of your lists of things to look at. Don't know why I blazed on health. I suppose because my two have been Fanconi and PRA tested and have had hip x-rays. Done and out of mind I suppose, but yeah... SUPER important.
Someone asked me if I had a favorite. I do! All of them!
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@zande said in Princess Sparkle...:
But it doesn't alter the fact that 6 Basenjis were supplied by the Story Book Kennel, some of them male !
One other article about the film identifies two of the other dogs used as “My Lord of the Congo,” and “Flageolet of the Congo,” so Veronica Tudor-Williams breeding, and also states that " “My Lady,” however, did most of the scenes."
Sorry for the thead hijack, JENGOSMonkey!
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I forgot to post this one. I took it a week or so ago and sent it to Stella. Told her I was on my way to the market...
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@jengosmonkey
LOL!
This photo made me chuckle! I’d take the WHOLE BASKET of these pups!️ -
Priceless! (free, right?)
