New foundation stock approved
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I love how detailed and transparent this process appears, even to non-specialists like me. Congrats to all!
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Well at the risk of being negative, I am not one that would agree that these dogs should have been accepted. And I will say in public that I did not vote for them. Again, that is just my opinion. I congratulate their efforts however in making the trip and doing health testing.
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Well at the risk of being negative, I am not one that would agree that these dogs should have been accepted. And I will say in public that I did not vote for them.
Just curious Pat, have you seen them in person or only pictures of them?
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Andrea thanks! I remembered there was a page for those, just didn't remember where and have been up to my butt in stuff here.
Well I looked at pics, evaluations by 2 judges and one breeder each… looked at health clearances/testing for fanconi, etc. I am not overly impressed with Mosika's pics... but find no reason for not approving. Can you tell us why you think they shouldn't be? You have a right to your opinion and it certainly helps educate those of us who are not breeders on differing opinions about why dogs should or should not be admitted.
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The first question that I ask myself is "Would I use those dogs in a breeding program of mine" the answer is no, so if I would not use them, I can't vote them into the stud books. I think that of the ones they brought back, these two barely have Basenji type, the others none… and since they all came from the same area, that leads me to believe that the majority of the dogs in that area are more of a mix of nice village dogs then of real Basenji type.
And before anyone jumps up and down that I am against the Afs... please note that I am very proud to be a co-breeder and co-owner of a 1/2 Avongara bred bitch, who I think is lovely and has a great deal to offer the breed.
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I think that of the ones they brought back, these two barely have Basenji type, the others none… and since they all came from the same area, that leads me to believe that the majority of the dogs in that area are more of a mix of nice village dogs then of real Basenji type.
Since Ntomba Mosika is a dog and Ntomba Lokoso is a bitch, I can only assume that they will do a test breeding with them to see what is really there … as I did with the Lukuru's and Bev Bland did with the Avongara's. Certainly since they come from a regional gene pool that has inconsistent, and varying type; the only way to really know what is there is to test breed.
It will be great to see where they go with these two.
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@JoT:
Since Ntomba Mosika is a dog and Ntomba Lokoso is a bitch, I can only assume that they will do a test breeding with them to see what is really there … as I did with the Lukuru's and Bev Bland did with the Avongara's. Certainly since they come from a regional gene pool that has inconsistent, and varying type; the only way to really know what is there is to test breed.
It will be great to see where they go with these two.
Interesting point Jo and yes, it will be interesting to see if that is what happens and what the offspring brings to the plate.
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I was with Lisa when we went to the last year nationals. She had Lokoso evaled by many long term breeders. I won't name them, but you know them.
They were all very impressed by Lokoso and thought she would be very good for the bred.
As these folks saw her and went over her, Lisa considered their their advice re pros and cons. The only negative that was mentioned re Lokoso is that she is a large girl.
Otherwise, they liked her very much. -
I think this is a kind of self regulating proposition. If they do test breed, or if people who incorporate these dogs into their breeding programs find that they are producing dogs with non-basenji traits, no one will use them anymore. I have faith that includes the importers as well.
I don't know if I would use these dogs in a breeding program either, but I recognize that there is room in the breed fancy for people to do different things, all within the scope of 'good for the breed'. And I think adding more genetic diversity is definitely good for the breed. Apparently, the members who voted felt the same way, because it was a landslide in favor of including these dogs…not nearly as close as I thought it was going to be...approx 75% for and %25 against.
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Oh, I wanted to add that this input by the long term breeders is why my Miss Wheat is fixed and a pet. They felt that she didn't have anything to add to the breed and Lisa listened to what they said.
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Sharron,
I am so very happy that you have Miss Wheat and that she has you. Thinking of you two always makes me smile. -
Oh, Dr. Jo. She was meant to be at my home. She is a true delight and we are now working on agility for her. She is queen of the A frame! laugh. I love the african's. They are joyous dogs indeed.
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Just an idea, but has BCOA ever considered requiring a test breeding and evaluate the pups before approving sire/dam?
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Just an idea, but has BCOA ever considered requiring a test breeding and evaluate the pups before approving sire/dam?
When the 1st Avongara's were brought back this is what was done (not a requirment, but something they decided to do). And it was done before the AKC was petitioned to open the stud books. (I think that is correct)
The problem as I see it with these newer imports is the time factor. The stub books were opened for 5yrs (in 2008), not sure there is time enough to produce litters before submitting them for approval. The Ntomba imports were born approx January 2009, so it was maybe possible for them to have been bred and produced one litter and then made application, but that is pushing it. The ones just brought back this past winter, would not really be old enough.
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I have seen the ones just brought back. Katie Campbell had them at the Seattle dog show. 3 puppies, one was a b/w. Many folks, who had been in the breed for many years thought they were quite nice and one old time breeder said this one a r/w, can't remember if it was male/female could be shown in the ring. We are all hopeful they will mature as nicely as they looked as small puppies.
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I have seen the ones just brought back. Katie Campbell had them at the Seattle dog show. 3 puppies, one was a b/w. Many folks, who had been in the breed for many years thought they were quite nice and one old time breeder said this one a r/w, can't remember if it was male/female could be shown in the ring. We are all hopeful they will mature as nicely as they looked as small puppies.
Again, due to their age, it will limit what can and can't be done before the stud book closes again…. hopefully these that are brought in at the end of the limit will do some breeding among the ones brought back before introducting them to the general Basenji Fancy for breeding.
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Pat, I do think that is the plan. They had 3 puppies at the show. I am hopeful they will be able to be an asset to the basenji group.
This is such an exciting time for all of us who love these wonderful dogs!
