I cannot imagine committing to buy a puppy without seeing the animal and if possible the sire and dam. OTOH, a rescue (or adoption of an older dog) is a different thing. My last two Basenjis came to me sight unseen, and turned out to be wonderful dogs, but the breeders I got them from wanted to place their dogs in an experienced Basenji home, and I only paid the cost of getting the dogs to me. One came by air, one was personally transported to me by his breeder. If she hadn't been happy with what she found I expect she would have taken him back with her when she left. I also had to commit to return him if ever I couldn't keep him. Good breeders care about where their dogs end up.
The American Kennel Club
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Started to avoid a total thread hijack.
AKC is a business that makes money registering dogs. It's easier to make money off of somebody that registers 1000 dogs/year, than it is to make money off of somebody who registers 5 dogs/year. People who think that having papers means anything about health, or quality are fooling themselves. All it means is "yep, you bought a basenji".
Those puppymills in MO convinced me that the AKC is total crap. I would never give them a dime of my money. In the words of tommy boy "really all you've bought is a guaranteed piece of crap."
That may be okay for you to say, but we as breeders and responsible dog owners to try to follow a little bit of protocol. You may not want to give them a dime of your money, but we have to as being responsible people. I'm not saying what you said is not true, but then again, if you research any breed, you'll find puppy mills all over the world. With and without health guarantees, anyone can be a byb. It is really up to the person to research. If you've had trouble, you can't blame anyone but yourself for not doing the research properly.
AKC papers mean something if you know what you are looking at. When you buy a puppy from Permanently ID'd parents with OFA and CERF results you will see those results published on the papers of your puppy. If the parents have a DNA profile with AKC so you can prove the parentage of your puppy the profile number will be listed on the papers.
So you are right, if your AKC papers say nothing more that Sire Name and Number, Dam Name and Number and your puppy's basic description then you don't have a whole lot. If on the other hand you have AKC papers with Sire + health clearances + DNA Profile and Dam + health clearances + DNA profile then you have more than a piece of crap.
I agree with you completely. I believe that the AKC has a monopoly though. When you read the trade publications for the puppymills, and dog auction services it is the AKC that is often buying the most expensive ads.
They are inadvertantly supporting the puppy mills/commercial dog farms through their advertising.
All that the novice knows about buying a dog is that if it has "papers" it is worth more, because they are held to standards that should guarantee "something". However, the AKC certifies them as purebred, even though they may have been bred with the worst possible standards in mind. I saw Italian Greyhounds that had the genetic defect that causes them to loose the front portion of their lower jaw that were AKC Certified. The puppies that they were breeding were of course certified also. Hence my reference to a certified piece of crap.
Vegas
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If you notice 90% of the Puppy Mill puppies and many high volume Back Yard Breeders do NOT even use AKC any longer and have not for years. This started when AKC required high volume breeders to provide DNA testing and they didn't want to spend the money. They started their own registry (s). AKC doesn't write the standard or the code of ethics for each breed, that is up to the breed parent club, not AKC. Not to say that AKC is perfect, but again, let me point out that if you really look at these places, they are not AKC dogs… from the high volume breeders... As you said, AKC is a "registry" it is not the breeding police. If there is a disqualification according to the published breed standard, then the papers would be pulled, of course someone would have to report it... Unless you think that AKC should personally inspect every puppy that is sent in to be registered?
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If you notice 90% of the Puppy Mill puppies and many high volume Back Yard Breeders do NOT even use AKC any longer and have not for years. This started when AKC required high volume breeders to provide DNA testing and they didn't want to spend the money. They started their own registry (s). AKC doesn't write the standard or the code of ethics for each breed, that is up to the breed parent club, not AKC. Not to say that AKC is perfect, but again, let me point out that if you really look at these places, they are not AKC dogs… from the high volume breeders... As you said, AKC is a "registry" it is not the breeding police. If there is a disqualification according to the published breed standard, then the papers would be pulled, of course someone would have to report it... Unless you think that AKC should personally inspect every puppy that is sent in to be registered?
The AKC could almost put puppymills out of business if they wanted to, by only allowing the registry of 50 (yes 50) puppies per year by any one breeder at one location. They do not, and they don't for a reason. Commercial pet farms = big $.
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The AKC could almost put puppymills out of business if they wanted to, by only allowing the registry of 50 (yes 50) puppies per year by any one breeder at one location. They do not, and they don't for a reason. Commercial pet farms = big $.
Well, of course they *could. But as a business, that would be suicide. And, this is a market driven economy, and sadly, right now, pets are a commodity. There IS a demand for puppymill puppies, as exhibited by plenty of people here purchasing them.
We need to change either, or both of these issues: A) people simply stop buying from places that are supplied by puppymills, that requires massive public education, and a committment from buyers to not just succumb to the 'need to have it now' and/or the 'what a cute puppy' mentality.
make pet animals a separate class from livestock animals so that they may not be farmed.The pet legislation out and about right now will simply squash the responsible breeder, and not even touch the puppy millers….very sad....
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The AKC could almost put puppymills out of business if they wanted to, by only allowing the registry of 50 (yes 50) puppies per year by any one breeder at one location. They do not, and they don't for a reason. Commercial pet farms = big $.
Again, I point out… when AKC started to require DNA testing for high volume breeders they just started their own registry... John Q Public doesn't know "jack" from AKC papers from like "National Dog Registry" or National Pet Registry" or "CKC" (not to be confused with the Canadian Kennel Club which is also CKC)
They would not care less.... and if you think they would, all you need to do is look in the ads for puppies and see how many really are AKC.. and not only that.. how many say they are AKC, but when people get the papers, provided they really get papers, they are something other than AKC.
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The AKC could almost put puppymills out of business if they wanted to, by only allowing the registry of 50 (yes 50) puppies per year by any one breeder at one location. They do not, and they don't for a reason. Commercial pet farms = big $.
Again, I point out… when AKC started to require DNA testing for high volume breeders they just started their own registry... John Q Public doesn't know "jack" from AKC papers from like "National Dog Registry" or National Pet Registry" or "CKC" (not to be confused with the Canadian Kennel Club which is also CKC)
They would not care less.... and if you think they would, all you need to do is look in the ads for puppies and see how many really are AKC.. and not only that.. how many say they are AKC, but when people get the papers, provided they really get papers, they are something other than AKC.
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The AKC could almost put puppymills out of business if they wanted to, by only allowing the registry of 50 (yes 50) puppies per year by any one breeder at one location. They do not, and they don't for a reason. Commercial pet farms = big $.
Again, I point out… when AKC started to require DNA testing for high volume breeders they just started their own registry... John Q Public doesn't know "jack" from AKC papers from like "National Dog Registry" or National Pet Registry" or "CKC" (not to be confused with the Canadian Kennel Club which is also CKC)
They would not care less.... and if you think they would, all you need to do is look in the ads for puppies and see how many really are AKC.. and not only that.. how many say they are AKC, but when people get the papers, provided they really get papers, they are something other than AKC.
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All this makes me glad mine's a MIX!! My head hurts from reading all the points of view!! Long live the MUTT! A little humor…
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To throw a twist on this-in Canada we have CKC (Canadian Kennel Club). However, there is another CKC (Continental Kennel Club) That trades off the real CKC. Many people don't know the difference until they start asking.
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All this makes me glad mine's a MIX!! My head hurts from reading all the points of view!! Long live the MUTT! A little humor…
Sadly, the mutt won't live long either with the new CA legislation that animal rights people are trying to put in place. Everyone can look forward to having poorly bred pitbulls rescued from their local shelter, because those will be the only dogs available, since people who break the law to dog fight, aren't likely to adhere to the law to spay and neuter their dogs :rolleyes:
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To throw a twist on this-in Canada we have CKC (Canadian Kennel Club). However, there is another CKC (Continental Kennel Club) That trades off the real CKC. Many people don't know the difference until they start asking.
Good point, Arlene….
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Sadly, the mutt won't live long either with the new CA legislation that animal rights people are trying to put in place. Everyone can look forward to having poorly bred pitbulls rescued from their local shelter, because those will be the only dogs available, since people who break the law to dog fight, aren't likely to adhere to the law to spay and neuter their dogs :rolleyes:
Amen to that Andrea!!! And folks if you don't think this can happen to your state, think again…
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Pat, we have anti dog legislation in Ontario against Pit's. Also in Alberta-it didn't do us any good lobbying against it because the idiots that be wanted to believe the BYB and not the true breeders. I believe after 12 years the last pit in Alberta died last year. This will be the same in Ontario. Sad isn't it-Damn the deed, not the Breed! In Ontario, this could be any 'Pit-type looking canine' not necessarily even Pit's, but boxer's (Square headed) mastiff's, etc. The Humane Society here transport's any that they have over the river to NY so they won't have to put them to sleep if they are puppies.
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We are learning in California how critical it is to stand together to lobby for our right to own healthy, well bred pets. The bill did pass out of the Assembly to the Senate but the vote was much closer than I think anyone thought it would be when the bill was first proposed. We still have to stay loud and keep writing letters and keep letting California businesses and politicians know how much responsible pet owners contribute to this state and how much money the state stands to lose over this legislation since money talks.
