Confussed on the dna.

[sinbaje]

I would always err on the side of listeing to the Dr. with whom you are corresponding vs. listening to a virtual stranger online. The post you refer to re: not giving vitamins was I beleive from 2008. A lot can change in two and one half years. That said - I would make sure Dr. Gonto understands your dog is DNA tested as p. affected and NOT actively spilling sugar.

While your dog has DNA tested as p. affected, he is technically a carrier also. Think about it - if he is homozygous for A/A as you say - A/A to mean affected - it also means he can only pass along an A which means he is a carrier too.

Note: that I am not saying he DNA TSETED as both. Only that testing as affected means a logical result of also being a carrier. Perhaps that is what the person you spoke to meant with the assumption you would understand.

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[lvoss]

Also, keep in mind the advice given to Jazzy's mom was given 2 years ago when the test was still new and we had not been able to identify probable affecteds so early in the disease. Dr Gonto's recommendations may have changed since then now that there has been more time to gather information.

[pedro]

tanza, what is the DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE AFFECTED AND THE CARRIER!!!!!!!!!!!!??. THAT IS WHERE IM GETING CONFUSED HERE!. I WAS TOLD A CARRIER HAS THE GENE BUT WONT EVER SHOW ANY SIGNS, THE AFFECTED HAS THE GENE AND SHOWS SIGNS!.

[pedro]

Dont get it!???/ what am imissing here????! Im trying to understand this but im confussed!. A/a = affected but your say he also carries the gene> . So he has both genes to me carrier? Affected!.?

[Janneke]

Hi Pedro,

Let's say A is the 'defect' allele of the "Fanconi gene", and a is the normal, healthy allele. Every dog has two alleles. You have "clear" dogs, which have a/a, two healthy alleles. Then there are carriers, they have one healthy allele and one 'defect' allele. They 'carry' the 'defect' allele, but won't get Fanconi, because you need two 'defect' alleles to get Fanconi, so they are a/A. Dogs that have two 'defect' alleles, A/A, are affected.

Does this make it more clear for you?

[pedro]

janneke, i thank i got it !!!!. pedro has A/A whatch is carrier and affected, because of the 2 genes … he carries the A FOR THE CARRIER GENE AND THEN HE ALSO HAS RTHE OTHER A. WATCH IS A THE GENES FROM THE CARRIER AND THE GENE FROM THE AFFECTED !, BUT HE WILL SHOW SIGNS AT SOME POINT BECAUSE HE HAS THE AFFECTED A JUST BY IT SELF SO BEING A/A he will show the disease at some point in his life!. maybe i could get lucky and him not show anything, because he does carrier the other A GENE THAT'S FROM BEING A CARRIER!, BUT I DOUT IT !!. HE'LL SHOW SIGNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!> RIGHT NOW IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME HERE BEFORE HE STARTS TO SHOW SIGNS!!.

[lvoss]

The A is the defect gene but in order to be Affected a dog has to have two copies. It is not that one comes from an Affected and one from a Carrier. It is that he "carries" two copies that means he will have the disease. We call dogs with only one copy "carriers" because they can pass the disease to their offspring even though they are not affected.

[pedro]

PEDRO HAS BOTH GENES FOR THE CARRIER AND FOR THE AFFECTED!! a/a = clear, a/A= IS FOR A CARRIER, & A/A = IS FOR AFFECTED ! NOW THE A for the carrier gene and the A FOR THE AFFECTED GENE IS MY BASENJI!. SO THIS TELLS ME HE HAS BOTH ; CARRIER AND AFFECTED!. WATCH ARE BOTH GENES FROM THE 2. BUT HE WILL SHOW SIGNS IN HIS LIFE TIME BECAUSE OF THE AFFECTED GENE ITSELF!!. WISH I COULD GET LUCKY AND NEVER GET ANY SIGNS OF IT!. a = clear, a/(A)=( CARRIER), (A/A) =(affected!.) please say i got it this time!!!!!!!!!!!> thks janneke!!!

[lvoss]

There is not a separate gene for Carrier and for Affected.

There are two alleles a dog can inherit a "Normal" allele and a "Defect" allele. In order to AFFFECTED the dog must have 2 copies of the "Defect" allele. If it has at least one "Normal" allele then it will be Normal.

CLEAR = a/a (two "normal" alleles) CAN NOT produce Affected offspring
Carrier = A/a (one "normal allele, one "defect" allele) COULD produce Affected offspring depending on the other parent
Affected = A/A (two "defect" alleles)COULD produce Affected offspring depending on the other parent, WILL pass on the "defect" allele to ALL offspring.

There is no such thing as a "Carrier" gene. A carrier is a dog that has one copy of the "defect" allele. Pedro is AFFECTED because he has two copies of the "defect" allele but one could also say he "carries" the "defect" allele because he will pass one copy of the "defect" allele on to ALL offspring if he ever had any.

[pedro]

so wait … then both of pedros parrents where affected!. or one was a carrier and the other one was affected!. that is the only way i can see that he would be affected, or both parents where affected!.for him to have it!.

[lvoss]

His Parents could have been either Carrier or Affected. There is no way to know which unless they were tested or are symptomatic. Two carriers bred together can produce Affected offspring. Each parent passes one of their two copies of the allele to the offspring, in the case of a Carrier they can pass either a Normal allele or a Defect allele and it is completely random which will get passed to each offspring. Clears can only pass on Normal alleles and Affected can only pass on Defect alleles.

[Tayda_Lenny]

Pedro - If you go to http://www.rugosabasenjis.com/ and click on the link that says "Fanconi Test" there are some nice pictures and an explanation on the possible breeding scenarios and their resulting offspring. Namely,

1. Clear bred with Clear
2. Clear bred with Carrier
3. Carrier bred with Carrier
4. Affected bred with Carrier
5. Affected bred with Affected

If your B has tested as "probably affected" then he was most likely the result of breeding scenario 3, 4 or 5.

[sharronhurlbut]

Pedro. YOUR b is affected. You will likely see fanconi in this b in the dogs life.
So, get the vitamins on board and strip test him every week.
You have the strip tests yes??
Do it every mon or sat or whatever day you can remember.
ONCE a week.
When the stip changes, then the fanconi is active.
Does this help??

[sinbaje]

You sound like you are a visual learner - perhaps this will help:

Gather the following:

Two pennies and two nickels

Set them in front of you like this on a desk:

• one penny and nickel on your left

• one penny and nickel on your right.

In this exercise the penny is non fanconi, the nickel is fanconi - together as a gene pair they are called Carrier.

For simplicity we will say Pedro's parents were both carriers and not affected themselves. Remember this is JUST an example for ease of understanding. We do not know Pedro's parent's true status.

On your left side you have one penny and one nickel - this is Pedro's mom's fanconi gene pair - with a non fanconi/fanconi component to it - she is called a carrier.

On the right side you also have one penny and one nickel - this is Pedro's dad's fanconi gene pair - with a non fanconi/fanconi component to it - he is called a carrier.

Pedro's parent's got together and produced Pedro - who is dna p. affected.

Take the nickel from the left side (Mom) and the right side (Dad) and put them together in the middle - now you have Pedro represented by two nickels - making Pedro's fanconi gene pair - two nickels (fanconi/fanconi).

If he is bred - he only has a nickel to pass along - to mean he only has the fanconi gene to contribute.

If he is bred to two pennies - all offspring will be a penny/nickel (penny from Mom, nickel from Pedro)

If he is bred to penny/nickel - then the offspring could be penny/nickel or nickel/nickel.

If he is bred to nickel/nickel - offspring will be nickel/nickel

Try this using pennies and nickels and you can get an idea of how genes are passed along. Remember that each parent only contributes one half of a pair and there are no more than two coins to each gene pair.

I hope this helps.

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[Kipawa]

Hi Pedro, as Dr. Gonto is our Fanconi expert, listen to his advice. If I had a Fanconi basenji, I would. And remember that your basenji doesn't HAVE Fanconi until he starts to make the test strip change colour. Up until that time, he is your basenji who has tested AFFECTED, but is not displaying symptoms. Test him every week and love him every minute of every day. All the best to you.

[khanis]

Hi Pedro,

Check out this page that I made, it may clear things up for you:
http://khanisbasenjis.com/fanconi.html

I am not sure why you said IND between carrier and affected, as the IND is between a clear and a carrier. It just means that some of the genes are kind of weird and they aren't showing to be clear. It has to do with the DNA, not the test, and since this is a linkage test that is the best we can do for now.

[tanza]

@khanis:

Hi Pedro,

Check out this page that I made, it may clear things up for you:
http://khanisbasenjis.com/fanconi.html

I am not sure why you said IND between carrier and affected, as the IND is between a clear and a carrier. It just means that some of the genes are kind of weird and they aren't showing to be clear. It has to do with the DNA, not the test, and since this is a linkage test that is the best we can do for now.

Kathy,
At the 2007 Nationals Dr Johnson did say that while there have not been any dogs that tested IND between Carrier and Affected, he did say because this is not the direct test yet, it could happen, just has not. Lisa was correct in posting about that, I had totally forgotten him saying that when asked.