Results Are In

[tanza]

@pedro:

i want to breed because i love the breed, not for the money like alot of people do!, but i see no reason in putting the dogs in show !!. it means nother. wheather the dog is show or plain no show. there is no difference between them to me!. why do people thank that showing the breed is going to bring anything to the breed!. and i still have to get the eyes,thyroid, elbows,hips,knees too.!. if there is a true reason to put a dog in show then let me know.

I mentioned more then just showing, there are performance events too and all those events show not only conformation and ability, but temperament too. If you love the breed, then you want to improve the breed, and that is breeding the best you can to the best. Responsible breeder love the breed and breed for the improvement of the breed that includes everything, including conformation, health and temperament. We show that by doing events with our dogs. Taking them out for the public to see, letting our peers see what we are breeding, listen and talk to mentors. Granted not everyone is interesting and that is fine… but I feel it is important that a dog be able to do what it is bred to do. Performance events show this, conformation show the structure of the dog according to the standard for that breed of dog. (obviously yes, it is subjective)...

[pedro]

the only thing with me is that my daughter is handycap and i'm the only one taken care of her dad's NOT IN THE PIC!. HE LEFT WHEN SHE WAS 4YRS OLD. AND I DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO GET MY BBOY IN TO THAT STUFF. OR I WOULD IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A DOG WITH RIBBONS AND TROPHIES AND MAYBE WIN MONEY FOR GOOD SHOW !?? I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW THAT STUFF WORKS. I WATCH IT ON T.V BUT THERE SOOOO FAR AWAY!!> THAT'S WHAT SUCKS ABOUT IT!. IF I COULD GET SOMEONE TO TRAIN HIM AND TAKE HIM IN TO SHOW IT WOULD BE GREAT BUT I DON'T KNOW ANYONE IN MICH THAT WOOULD DO THIS OR THAT IS INVALVED IN IT!!!!!>

[lvoss]

Click on my profile and email me privately through my website and I can send you contact information for someone in Michigan that can help you if you want to do things with your basenji.

[tanza]

NO money in showing dogs, win, lose or draw… spending however is quite simple! When I go to work after a show, people always ask did you win? If the answer is yes, they ask "what did you win"... My answer is a 1.00 ribbon and then paid 30.00 to have a picture taken..gggg

It is an expensive "sport" as are performance venues, but then again, so is breeding if done right. There are a couple of threads on here from lvoss about the cost of litters and of the many things that can and do go wrong.

[lvoss]

Yeah, and I decided it was best for my sanity to never total L'Ox's cost.

[Andrew]

Just my 2 cents, there is a TON of work that goes into breeding, even if you aren't showing your dog or doing performance events.
When I fell in love with this breed, I knew that some day, maybe several years down the road, I wanted to breed. I've had basenjis for over 3 years (a drop in the bucket), and the more I learn about the breed and breeding, the more I realize that I don't know anything!!!
Its difficult enough to work with just 1 dog on a daily basis on just regular dog things, like socialization, exercise, feeding, grooming, cuddle time, etc etc etc. Most breeders have more than 1 dog in their breeding program, so multiply that work times the number of dogs you have. Now consider a puppy. I don't know how old yours is, but if its an adult, think back to how much WORK goes into a puppy. Multiply that by 6 (which is an average basenji litter), and add in your adult dogs. You say you don't have enough time to show because you have a lot on your hands raising your daughter by yourself; how on earth will you have time to raise puppies!?!?!? I'm not saying this to be mean AT ALL, I'm just trying to give you an eye opener.
I had absolutely no idea how much work went into a litter, but I am extremely fortunate that YodelDogs has taken me under her wing to be my mentor. I was lucky enough (since I was unemployed at the time), to visit her litter this year at least once a week for the first 12 weeks of their lives. Just going over for an afternoon could be overwhelming with 6 puppies!! CONSTANT cleaning up (even though towards the end they were almost completely litter trained), constant noise noise noise, running, jumping, trying to eat your hair, your earrings, your brand new favorite sweater, the bow on your shoes, anything they could get to. Lots and lots and lots and lots of work. I took one of the puppies home for a few nights on a "socialization loan", and although it was a blast and the puppy was super cute, I wasn't almost willing to pay Robyn to take the puppy back
I just recommend you listen to what Tanza & Lvoss are trying to say; puppies are a LOT of work, and its not something you can fully appreciate until you're knee deep in puppies. Even if you don't have time for showing and performance, find a good, responsible breeder who will mentor you and guide you.

[pedro]

oh, ya, i wouldn't just go in to this blind. thats why i'm on here to find some help before i deciede to breed and depending on his fanconi test!!.thanks for not being mean. i was told most people on here would be when they found out he's a pet shop basenji!.

[lvoss]

Here are some threads that are must read.

The Cost of Raising a Litter
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=4429

Whelping Experience
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=613

Sherwood's Breeding Plans
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=4291

[tanza]

@pedro:

oh, ya, i wouldn't just go in to this blind. thats why i'm on here to find some help before i deciede to breed and depending on his fanconi test!!.thanks for not being mean. i was told most people on here would be when they found out he's a pet shop basenji!.

LOL, now if you were going to go and buy from a pet shop, we most likely would have been quite vocal about trying to talk you out of it and steer you to a responsible breeder.

But the deed is done, you have the pup…. that said, we will be quite vocal on why you should not breed a pet store puppy and if interested in the breed and breeding, find yourself a mentor, learn from them before even thinking about breeding.

[pedro]

i just seen him at a store and feel in love with him!!!!!!! couldnt help it!!. but i'm learning day by day on him and the breed too i didn't even know what the breed was till i went on the internet and looked up the name!.thanks for your help.i really appreciate it.

[lvoss]

The thing is that even if he is Clear for fanconi there are many other diseases that we don't have DNA tests for and the only way to reduce the risk of producing them is to know the health status of the dogs in the pedigree. Do you have any way of verifying the health of your dog's parents? How about his siblings? If not, you could very well be breeding a dog that is at high risk for producing PRA, a late onset disease that causes blindness, or hip dysplasia which can be produced by dogs that are phenotypically normal but have affected relatives, or hypothyroidism.

This is why people are urging you to neuter your boy. You have no way of knowing what he carries genetically and since he was from a pet store there is no reliable way to get depth of pedigree info on him.

[pedro]

im going to get him tested for all this

[tanza]

Here is a link to the breed standard

http://www.basenji.org/Basenji%20Standard/Index.htm

And lvoss gave you a link to contact her and she would point you towards people that might be in your area to help you too.

[tanza]

@pedro:

im going to get him tested for all this

OK, you are still missing the point.. and that is you know nothing of his backgroud or the health of his sibling/sire/dam/grand sire/grand dam, etc…

Many of our health concerns are thought to be recessive, which means maybe he doesn't have them, but has the gene. Without know the background you have no idea if any of these problems have come up before with dogs he is related to.

[lvoss]

You are not understanding what I am saying. You dog may not have the disease or may not be old enough to show symptoms but could still produce it. It is not just your dog that should be tested but also his parents.

Here are some examples of vertical pedigrees in OFA that show the health testing behind a dog not just of the dog itself.

http://www.offa.org/vertpedigree.html?appnum=1300463#animal
http://www.offa.org/vertpedigree.html?appnum=1300463istry=ER#animal

Even if you tested your boy for all the recommended things, how well filled out would his vertical pedigrees be?

[pedro]

if i get him tested and there clear then his parents are most likely clear too!!. and the basenjis breed way back in the years before where inffected !, but they breed them.!! and have been breed over and over till poeple started to see thing going wrong with then and this is way back in the breed too!!> i'll have to talk the basenji owner: khan's basenji.

[pedro]

i dont'have that kind of information on him but i do have a 5 generation done on him!.

[lvoss]

If he is clear it does NOT mean his parents were clear. A clear puppy can be produced from two carriers but so can an Affected.

Also, you are still not getting the point about the other diseases that do not have a DNA test and only test the dog's phenotype which does not tell you whether they can produce the disease. You can only estimate their likelihood of producing the disease if you know the health results of the parents, siblings, etc.

If you are considering breeding please get a book like the ABC's of Dog Breeding by Dr Claudia Orlandi and learn the basics of genetics and avoiding producing inherited disease.

http://www.abcsofdogbreeding.com/homestudyprogram.htm

[pedro]

what a minute!, when if that's the case on other problems that cant'be tested then why are you breeding you b's that tells me that your could be carriers and or have puppies thazt are affected then too!.

[lvoss]

Again, you are not understanding what I am saying.

Responsible breeders breed knowing the whole pedigree. So when a DNA test is not present, you have to know the health status of as many of the dogs in the pedigree as possible. That is why you look at vertical pedigrees. If you looked at the vertical pedigree I sent, you would have seen that there was data there for each generation. There may be an occasional "hole" but there were siblings and offspring tested. You need this info to know if dogs have produced the disease even though they themselves do not have it. The more generations you can go back without having the problem the lower the risk of producing the problem but there will always be risk without a DNA test.