Help Needed With Self Stacking, pleeeeeease…

[Maya]

@basi:

I agree, not having ago at anyone as I know this is a common thing in the states but just not used in the UK, well not by anyone i know.

Oh, it is More than people know… Its still pretty frowned upon by the majority here so people dont talk about it, but i know of a couple of people in labs who use it, and also other breeds that i dont own.

I have dogs in for training for the ring sometimes and one person asked me to take theirs in and train it on these stilt things and got quite funny with me when i refused. But, its a principle thing, im sure she got someone else to train it quite happily :rolleyes:

[basi]

@Maya:

Oh, it is More than people know… Its still pretty frowned upon by the majority here so people dont talk about it, but i know of a couple of people in labs who use it, and also other breeds that i dont own.

I have dogs in for training for the ring sometimes and one person asked me to take theirs in and train it on these stilt things and got quite funny with me when i refused. But, its a principle thing, im sure she got someone else to train it quite happily :rolleyes:

I quite believe it:rolleyes:
It was mentioned it the breed notes once in the dog paper and was not spoke too highly of.

[Janneke]

@basi:

Phew I'm glad i am not the only one that doesn't like these contraptions. I do the same as you Jessica yes it does take longer but much kinder on the dog.

• 1.. I also think this isn't a kind way of learning a dog how to stand. Tillo had some troubles with stretching his hind legs. I learn him to keep them back by putting my feet in front of them and then asking him to walk to my hand. He got it in 2 seconds

[lvoss]

I think the dog's experience really depends on how you use the Happy Legs. I have had my dogs on them and they were rewarded for being on them. They were far more interested in eating cheese then being concerned about being on the stilts. I have never used them for an extended period of time. I also just hand stack and reward their holding the position, which is does the same thing. It can be helpful to start on the Happy Legs so they learn what it feels like to have their feet in that position. If they aren't comfortable on them then I don't use them.

[nomrbddgs]

I agree with Lisa. Some of my dogs love it (yum treats and goodies shoved in my face while I stand here) some hate it no matter what. I don't push the ones that don't like it. Mine free stack anyway, so that is not a huge issue with mine. I've used bait while they are on the ground and free stacked them that way.

[kiroja]

@lvoss:

I think the dog's experience really depends on how you use the Happy Legs. I have had my dogs on them and they were rewarded for being on them. They were far more interested in eating cheese then being concerned about being on the stilts. I have never used them for an extended period of time. I also just hand stack and reward their holding the position, which is does the same thing. It can be helpful to start on the Happy Legs so they learn what it feels like to have their feet in that position. If they aren't comfortable on them then I don't use them.

Same here. I don't use them very often, in fact didn't even use them on the last litter. But they do come in handy for learning certain things when the dog isn't getting it, especially adults and ADHD puppies. Also it makes the training session much faster, and happier for the dog. They get lots of praise, pets, and treats while they're up there. And since they're holding the position needed, it only takes a few seconds then we're off to do something else. And I actually have my dogs walk up onto them sorta with a little help and treats, so they learn right from the start that it's not really "falling", just a little uncomfortable standing with one foot on/one foot off. lol And believe me, they know they can jump off and run around the house playing keep away whenever they want to! I usually use them on the floor, not on a table except for picture taking times.

[saba]

Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it :).

Ochre's lessons are now in full swing, and despite my clumsiness, she seems to be just starting to pick up what Im trying to teach her :D.

[kiroja]

Awesome! Keep it up.

[chiya]

Better late than never right?? LOL

Here is the few short paragraphs I wrote to
try to explain to a new owner how to teach her
pup to free stack. Hope it makes sense to you Saba.

Some tips may have already been mentioned
in previous posts.

As far as free baiting goes,
here is what I do to train my dogs to free bait.

First you need to teach him "stand stay".
A really useful tool to teach a dog to hold a stack is by using
a tool called the "happy legs". Its a training tool that you stack
your dog on the stilts and teach him the commend "stand stay".
Once he understands what stand stay means, you practice
on the ground. Then here is how I teach him to stretch out in a show
dog stance where his front legs and his hocks are perpendicular to
the ground. I do so by using the show lead to guide him and using the
commend "step up". To do that it takes time and patient and lots
of love coz sometimes you just want to ring your dog's neck.
The concept is to teach him to only step up a step or two with his
front feet, and his back feet stay put, you do so by slightly pulling
the lead to your left and slightly knocking him off balance so he
has no choice but to take a little step.
Every time he takes a couple steps by you pulling slightly
on the lead to knock him off balance, you need to incorporate
the commend "step up", then you immediately reward him
with a treat.

http://www.happylegs.com/
This is what happy legs is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WZrFJKWT8Y
OK, dog in video is Denver, he is already trained, the purpose
of this clip is to show his new handler how to show him the
way I have him trained.
But it is to give you an idea what I mean when I talked about
pulling the lead slightly to the left to make him step up a couple
steps while his back feet stay put. Then you tell him to stand
stay while you walk back a few steps away from the dog.
I give a commend to every move I teach my dog.

Teaching them to catch the treat in mid air is another
trick you can do to keep him paying attention to you while
you are in the ring. I use the commend "watch me" as
I am getting ready to throw him some bait to catch, and
of course use the comment "catch" when he is catching.

He will catch on to step-up, stand stay, watch me
and catch quickly!
Pretty soon you will have a dog that can free stack and paying
full attention to you with ears up and showing off wrinkles
at the end of a 4 foot lead!!

Now you know why I like my lead looooooong!

Anyhoo…..here is my two cents worth!! Hope it makes sense to some.

[saba]

@chiya:

Better late than never right?? LOL

Here is the few short paragraphs I wrote to
try to explain to a new owner how to teach her
pup to free stack. Hope it makes sense to you Saba.

Some tips may have already been mentioned
in previous posts.

As far as free baiting goes,
here is what I do to train my dogs to free bait.

First you need to teach him "stand stay".
A really useful tool to teach a dog to hold a stack is by using
a tool called the "happy legs". Its a training tool that you stack
your dog on the stilts and teach him the commend "stand stay".
Once he understands what stand stay means, you practice
on the ground. Then here is how I teach him to stretch out in a show
dog stance where his front legs and his hocks are perpendicular to
the ground. I do so by using the show lead to guide him and using the
commend "step up". To do that it takes time and patient and lots
of love coz sometimes you just want to ring your dog's neck.
The concept is to teach him to only step up a step or two with his
front feet, and his back feet stay put, you do so by slightly pulling
the lead to your left and slightly knocking him off balance so he
has no choice but to take a little step.
Every time he takes a couple steps by you pulling slightly
on the lead to knock him off balance, you need to incorporate
the commend "step up", then you immediately reward him
with a treat.

http://www.happylegs.com/
This is what happy legs is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WZrFJKWT8Y
OK, dog in video is Denver, he is already trained, the purpose
of this clip is to show his new handler how to show him the
way I have him trained.
But it is to give you an idea what I mean when I talked about
pulling the lead slightly to the left to make him step up a couple
steps while his back feet stay put. Then you tell him to stand
stay while you walk back a few steps away from the dog.
I give a commend to every move I teach my dog.

Teaching them to catch the treat in mid air is another
trick you can do to keep him paying attention to you while
you are in the ring. I use the commend "watch me" as
I am getting ready to throw him some bait to catch, and
of course use the comment "catch" when he is catching.

He will catch on to step-up, stand stay, watch me
and catch quickly!
Pretty soon you will have a dog that can free stack and paying
full attention to you with ears up and showing off wrinkles
at the end of a 4 foot lead!!

Now you know why I like my lead looooooong!

Anyhoo…..here is my two cents worth!! Hope it makes sense to some.

Hi Chiya,

Thank you soooooooooo much for the reply… I really appreciate the help... I have started Ochre on the free stacking, and Im pleased to say that so far we are making baby steps :). Thanks to a quick response from Kiroja, I was able to start on the training... Sometimes I think she has "got it", then other times she just looks at me with a "What exactly do you want ME to do ???", look on her face :D. She isnt up to doing it in the ring yet, but, at the last show we went to, I did ask her to do it once or twice, outside the ring, and she actually did it, kind of !!! I still have to pull the lead out, just as you explained, use the word, (I use "show"), and unbalance her, to get her to do it, but, we are making progress...

I really enjoyed the youtube vid as well, that really helped to cement it into my brain... It was funny, I watched the vid before I had finished reading your reply, and when you had him up on the table, then got him down, and wound the VERY long lead up, I was thinking to myself, "I wonder why she has a lead that long, I think I will only need my nice, short lead for this :D"...............Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, soon found out why you had it, didnt I ??? I think it looks so professional to be able to have your dog stand away from you, baiting beautifully, without the view of the handler in the background :).

I love the trick of him catching the bait as well, however, I wont be able to do that. Recently, SOME judges and stewards, are cracking down on the use of bait in the ring, altogether, and throwing it, is very much a no-no :rolleyes:. I think in the last 10 or so shows, Ive been told off by the judge for using bait while she is on the table, probably 4-5 times... I very much would like to say, "Go jump...", but, I just smile sweetly, apologize and then, keep my mouth shut... I might add, this has nothing to do with the dog eating a ton of food, or has a mouth filled with mushy bait either, when the judge is about to examine teeth :mad:.

Anyway, Im off to look at the vid, before Ochre and I do some more training... Again, thank you for the info :):):)...

[saba]

I just wanted to post an update on this thread…

After all the help and advice we have gotten from here, Im happy to say that Ochre had her first show on NYE, where she self stacked beautifully all by herself... No word prompts at all, yaaaaaay :D. Its taken a while, but we finally got there... Her timing is really VERY good, as we have the Victorian Basenji Specialty, under aa American judge, on the 16th of January, and Im really hoping she does it as well as she did on NYE, under her ;);)...

Have already started Vanda on this sort of training, and she had her first show on NYE with Imogen, (daughter), showing her, and while she is a bit of a way off doing the free stack without word prompts, she is learning it really quite quickly, actually a lot quicker than Ochre did :D...

So, once again, "thank you", for all the advice given so freely :).

[tanza]

That's super, who is your judge?

[saba]

We have a Mrs Barbara Binder, who apparently has Borzois, no B's, but, started out, in her show life, going to shows with someone who had B's, and loves the breed…

Any tips, pointers will be muchly appreciated :D:D

[tanza]

Yup, have show to her, she is from the Pacific Northwest. And yes, she comes from Borzois

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