Life Expectancy??

[RockysWoman]

We're having a "sit down" with the vet to discuss his test results in more detail and exactly how the protocol will be implemented. Not sure if he has contacted Dr. Gonto. At least my vet was familiar with the syndrome and the breed.

Forward please the yahoo list… I feel like a fish out of water yet.

[JazzysMom]

@RockysWoman:

Too bad these dogs don't come with owners manuals.

Rockyswoman, there IS an owners manual –actually called, "The Basenji Owners Manual: http://www.evergreenbasenjiclub.org/bom.html

It's a small book, that a few people laughed about me having {"You have an owner's manual for your DOG???"} but I found it to be invaluable with my first B.

[tanza]

You need to go to yahoo groups and search for the Fanconi list.. it is a closed list for only afflicted Basenjis…

And remember that Dr. Gonto is more then happy to discuss treatment, main thing is now that he needs to get on the protocol asap....

[mahendra_suri]

Channayn lived to be 15 and was alpha to her dying breath. Moses is 13 he still is very active. He accompainies Tzonga (9), Mahendra (8?) and me in the foothills hiking and mnt biking. Biking he sets his own pace. 13 and 4 plates holding his pelvis together, he's not doing bad.

Then again, how long do people live? Africans tend to have shorter life spans. Some groups of Semites tend have life spans over 100. If I remember correctly, a rural Japanese woman just died at 114 or 116.

It just comes down to genetics. There is an ongoing program to expand the Basenji's gene pool by breeding with more African lines. It would be an interesting to catalogue death rates of Basenjis by genetic disposition.

[tanza]

I don't think that expanding the gene pool will make a difference in length of live… and now with the Fanconi Linkage test, there is never an excuse to breed a dog that might become affected with Fanconi. And hopefully the word about the linkage test is passed far and wide so that BYB's and PM's are run out of business unless they start testing...

[MacPack]

We have had several basenjis live to be 16 and 17, and one that was almost 19 years that we were aware of, but she had come from a shelter so might have even been older. Her last year she was very feeble, but up to 16 she was still running around. My current oldest will be 12 Oct.1, and is more playful than the younger ones in spite of several health issues. I personally consider 8-10 to be just "adult" for basenjis, and "senior" starts at 12-14!
Anne in Tampa

[RockysWoman]

I laughed when Rocky got the big orange "Senior" sticker put on his chart last year at the ripe ol' age of 8. He certainly still thinks he's a puppy! Regardless of what the pound vs age charts say!

[mahendra_suri]

@tanza:

I don't think that expanding the gene pool will make a difference in length of live… and now with the Fanconi Linkage test, there is never an excuse to breed a dog that might become affected with Fanconi. And hopefully the word about the linkage test is passed far and wide so that BYB's and PM's are run out of business unless they start testing...

You bring to the fore a valid point. There is no reason to breed any canine with a history of health problems. That does not improve a breed; it's just bad business.

As genetic research advances, it is known that some illnesses are genetic in orgin and others are viral. With a viable genome and meticulous cataloging, a model can be produced to yeild the ideal make-up of a Basenji to extend life. Or maybe just improve quality of life.

[tanza]

@mahendra_suri:

You bring to the fore a valid point. There is no reason to breed any canine with a history of health problems. That does not improve a breed; it's just bad business.

As genetic research advances, it is known that some illnesses are genetic in orgin and others are viral. With a viable genome and meticulous cataloging, a model can be produced to yeild the ideal make-up of a Basenji to extend life. Or maybe just improve quality of life.

To take this a bit further, remember with Basenjis, Fanconi and PRA are late onset, so of course now with the DNA test for Fanconi we can test for this before breeding, but for PRA we are (no pun intended) still flying blind….

[Terry]

To Rocky and his woman…

I sent you a private message with the info about the Fanconi List and how to join.
I have belonged to this list for a long time; currently treating our 4th Fanconi dog.

Terry

[gbroxon]

Please excuse my ignorance in asking this question, but as more genetic testing becomes readily available (i.e., for fanconi and other genetic disorders), and based on testing results, breeders are going to be culling (for want of a better word) dogs/lines they have bred or had planned to breed, aren't we [necessarily] further narrowing our already small gene pool if entire lines can no longer be bred due to genetic deficiencies? If so, how are breeders going to deal with that? I know we've got some new blood that is, at this point, backstage (being Fanconi tested?), but it seems to me like the B breed, as we know it, is, heartbreakingly, in a vortex into oblivion…or am I being too pessimistic (I know I tend to be)?

Also, regarding irresponsible breeders: It seems to me that trusting them to breed Fanconi carrier to Fanconi clear would be an impossible supposition. JMO, of course.

(Please don't think I'm against genetic testing, I'm all for removing genetic disorders from the gene pool.)

[Quercus]

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[gbroxon]

Once again, my ignorance showing-blushes-a male can be affected and still be bred to a clear bitch? The progeny will test as clear? It's not the same for an affected bitch? Or is it just too dangerous for an affected bitch to be bred?

With regard to the irresponsible breeder thing, I really wasn't thinking of them testing (good gosh, that'd cut into their profit margin!), but of them somehow getting ahold of, say, a male carrier and a female carrier and breeding them, introducing (I think) at least the possibility of an affected, thereby negating the careful breeding of clears to carriers in those lines and re-introducing [an instance of] Fanconi into the breed that could extrapolate exponentially.

Do you think the breed can ever be free of at least the threat of Fanconi? Although (obviously), I know nothing of genetics, it seems like the only way to completely obliterate it would be to only breed clear to clear, and that can't be possible with the small Basenji gene pool(?).

[tanza]

@gbroxon:

Once again, my ignorance showing-blushes-a male can be affected and still be bred to a clear bitch? The progeny will test as clear? It's not the same for an affected bitch? Or is it just too dangerous for an affected bitch to be bred?

With regard to the irresponsible breeder thing, I really wasn't thinking of them testing (good gosh, that'd cut into their profit margin!), but of them somehow getting ahold of, say, a male carrier and a female carrier and breeding them, introducing (I think) at least the possibility of an affected, thereby negating the careful breeding of clears to carriers in those lines and re-introducing [an instance of] Fanconi into the breed that could extrapolate exponentially.

Do you think the breed can ever be free of at least the threat of Fanconi? Although (obviously), I know nothing of genetics, it seems like the only way to completely obliterate it would be to only breed clear to clear, and that can't be possible with the small Basenji gene pool(?).

Yes, affected males could be bred to clear bitches, know however that all pups will be carriers so then those must also be bred to clears…

It is NOT necessary to only breed clear to clear, that will really hurt the gene pool and put us in the same position that happened with HA which is also a recessive gene... you can safely breed Carrier to Clear, test the offspring to see what is clear and what is not. What not to ever breed is Carrier to Carrier, Affected to Carrier. As far as breeding affected bitches, IMO it is too much strain on the body to take that chance.... even if they are not yet expressing Fanconi. It is possible to breed out Fanconi, but only with careful breeding and not by throwing the baby out with the bath water...

Regarding "back yard breeders" and puppy mills breeding affected and/or carriers back into the gene pool, that will happen as they will never test.. the course of action is to educate the public on were to buy a puppy.. (and this goes for any breed) ....

[Quercus]

Well, responsbile breeders will test puppies before they leave, they will know who is carrier and who is clear….carriers that will be placed as pets must be placed in responsible homes that will show proof of spay and neuter. Carriers that are kept by breeders will be bred to clears, lather, rinse, repeat... Some breeders may choose to keep only clears to go on with their breeding program...it would definitely be my priority, rather than show qualities...but it isn't a necessity.

It will take years, and generations for the majority of breeders to have all clears.....but I have faith that it will happen. Particularly when the buying public knows that they can either buy a puppy that won't get Fanconi, or take their chances with an irresponsible breeder....

As far as the male affected question....it is a commonly held understaning that the stress of pregnancy on the kidneys causes a Fanconi affected bitch to start exhibiting symptoms, and to hasten the progression of the disease. It is mostly anecdotal, but does seem to run true among all breeders that have had a brood bitch start to spill sugar; it happens directly after raising a litter.

[Quercus]

<_>

In the end, yes, the only way to irradicate the recessive gene is to breed clear to clear…but it doesn't have to, and shouldn't happen in just a few generations, you would loose about half the population of basenjis. By doing it slower, and including carriers in the breedings you can do it without losing as much diversity.

There will probably always be some untested pockets of Fanconi...kind of like there are still pockets of Hemolytic Anemia...but we can, and will irradicate from the breeding population for all intents and purposes._

[lvoss]

Responsible breeders will test their stock and breed accordingly so no affecteds are produced. Irresponsible breeders will not test and will continue to produce affecteds and will continue to use the same reasons they currently do unless buyers become educated and refuse to buy a puppy unless they see a test result for the parents in the OFA database. The fact that fanconi will persist in the irresponsibly bred population of dogs will not effect the efforts of responsible breeders since they will only use tested stock. The people who will be affected by the irresponsible breeders are those who continue to buy puppies from them and then have to deal with this horrible and now avoidable disease.

The message to anyone considering buying a puppy needs to be clear, repeated, and hopefully heard. At least 1 parent in every breeding should have a DNA Marker Test for Fanconi Syndrome with a result of Probably Clear/Normal. If you can not verify this on OFA after 2 weeks of being told by the breeder that this is the case then do not buy a puppy from that breeder. 2 weeks is the current lag time between a person recieving their emailed results from the lab and the results being publicly posted on the OFA website.

[gbroxon]

Sincere thanks to you all for enlightening me. I feel I now, at least, have a basic understanding as to what's going on with Fanconi in our beloved breed.

[lvoss]

Thank you for taking the time to ask questions and become better informed. It is really important for the long term good of the breed that the people that share their lives with basenjis take an interest in what is going on with the breed.

[tanza]

@lvoss:

Thank you for taking the time to ask questions and become better informed. It is really important for the long term good of the breed that the people that share their lives with basenjis take an interest in what is going on with the breed.

Well said Lisa! And that people pass that information to others….