Fanconi Syndrome

[B5004EVER]

Regarding Gonto not being a vet.

The Gonto protocol was analyzed and investigated in a study that appeared in the Journal of the American Veterinary Association back in 2004 and it was found to be a sound and useful protocol.
(https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.2004.225.377).

He has since revised it www.basenjirescue.org/fanconi/fanconi-protocol-2015.pdf

No treatment works 100% of the time, but this was quite the lifesaver for my family. My dog Titan was on it for four years and his levels were stable up until the end when he succumbed from a brain tumor.

Diane

[eeeefarm]

Regarding pilling, I find some dogs aren't too difficult, but I had one Basenji in particular that would appear to have swallowed the pill but subsequently would spit it out, often after having collected the treat that came as a reward. I don't know how she did it! OTOH, my Border Collie spit out a pill once and when I expressed my displeasure he gave me a "sorry boss" look and promptly picked up the pill and ate it. Different breeds! When I had both it was night and day dealing with them. The BC would do anything for my praise, was not at all interested in treats (would eat them if I insisted), the Basenjis were always "What's in it for me?"

[YodelMa]

@debradownsouth Good point. We're so fortunate to have both Pam and Steve Gonto to support our sick babies. Pam is indeed a miracle worker, and never gives up on dogs.

[Anna]

Hello. Just wanted to thank everyone once again. Today was a very successful day. I was able to get Lily to take all 7 sodium bicarbonate tablets in cat food. I was very careful when hiding the pills. I used tweezers and gloves and I think that did the trick. Tomorrow I will try 7 tabs in the morning and 7 tabs at night. After a few days, I will add her vitamins to the regimen. Thanks again and I will keep you posted!

[DebraDownSouth]

@b5004ever said in Fanconi Syndrome:

Regarding Gonto not being a vet.

The Gonto protocol was analyzed and investigated in a study that appeared in the Journal of the American Veterinary Association back in 2004 and it was found to be a sound and useful protocol.
(https://doi.org/10.2460/javma.2004.225.377). <<

Actually, they found nothing

What effect the treatment regimen had on survival time or lifespan could not be determined, given the small number of dogs managed with other methods. <<
,,'"

[elbrant]

@anna I"m adding this only because I didn't see it suggested in the other 18 responses... I have never had to give so many pills as you are - so I feel for you (so to speak). But, try this... get a cheap coffee grinder and grind the pills up. Then, instead of putting them into pill casings, mix them with some chicken stock and pour the stock over their breakfast/dinner foods. You'll probably only need 1-2T of stock to disolve the powder and the liquid should act like a gravy sauce over kibble or human foods. Bet the bowl gets licked dry! Here's hoping that you find a solution that works for everyone!

[DebraDownSouth]

@elbrant
The bitterness might make that a no go

[Anna]

I would like to thank everyone once again for their comments and responses. Just an update. The cat food seems to be working. I am scooping the cat food into little balls using a melon scooper, then I insert the tablet using tweezers, and then I mold it into a perfect little ball using gloves. She is now taking all 7 sodium bicarbonate tablets and 2 vitamins twice a day (18 tablets total per day). I still have 2 more tablets to add to the regimen but am I confident that it won’t be a problem. I can’t tell you how happy I am that she is now taking her tablets. It is such a relief. I know it will take a little time to get her blood levels back up to where they need to be so I will wait about a month before having her blood work checked. Again, I can’t thank everyone enough for their ideas and comments. I am adding a photo of Lily, hopefully it loads. 

[DebraDownSouth]

Glad that is helping!
No picture though.

[Anna]

Sorry. The other photo won’t upload because it’s too big. This is the only one small enough to upload.

[Anna]

Lily has figured out that the cat food has pills in it. I made a mistake and used liverwurst last night instead of cat food because it doesn’t smell as much. She knew right away that there were pills in the liverwurst and she ate all of the liver wurst and left a few pills. This morning I went back to cat food and she ate all of the cat food and left a few pills. I am going to try to give her the pills she didn’t take later in a different flavor cat food. She is just too smart! I hope it works otherwise I will have to try a different food.

[DebraDownSouth]

Unfortunately they catch on fast.

[dropit]

Yes. They catch on real fast. I thought that would happen. Been there. That's why I've had to use the capsules. My dog is extremely smart. Their scent is nearly bionic. As Deb said ...even if the pills are mixed with anything like broth she won't touch it. My dog will also not tolerate having pills pushed down her throat no matter how many treats i would give her before or after. She can see that coming. She is not stupid. Not all basenjis have the same tolerance and temperment and many people don't understand this.

[YodelMa]

@dropit Really good point.

[Anna]

Sorry, I haven’t posted in a few days. I have tried putting the pills in a couple of new foods and she refuses to eat any of them. I tried tuna fish with a little mayo, which she normally likes, and I also tried raviolis. Anything I give her she is skeptical of. She will not readily take anything until she smells it for a good 2 minutes and if she even thinks it doesn’t smell right she won’t eat it. It is so frustrating because not everything I give her has pills in it. I tried to make a game of it by giving “treats” to Lily and Georgie thinking the competition would help, but Lily insists on smelling everything and doesn’t care if Georgie gets her treats before she has a chance to eat them. She will just as willingly not eat anything. Thanks for listening. I will let you know how things go over the next few days.

[eeeefarm]

At some point you will just have to accept that she is not going to take the pills unless you don't give her the option of refusing. If you don't want to force them on her IMO it's better to concede this battle and just feed her the best diet that you can. If she is refusing to eat, ultimately that will do more harm than going off the protocol.

[dropit]

This will be my last post but I'm sorry about the problems you are having. They are similar to what I experienced. When dogs first get this condition they have little appetite. If you can get her on the medications her appetite should improve although as someone mentioned, you can only do so much and then just giving her the best foods and walking her so that she has an appetite may be the best thing you can do for her. Here is what happened with my dog: She wouldn't accept foods with pills hidden in them because she could smell it, and she had little appetite when the condition first appeared. As I said I ground up the pills and stuffed them in No. 4 capsules available on Amazon. Do a few hundred in a few hours when you have spare time. If you want, make some bacon and let the grease cool. Rub the filled capsules in the bacon grease to help hide any residual scent of meds then separate the capsules into plastic bags and label them how many of each she needs to take per day. Take your dog for a long walk and let her explore. Basenjis are hunting dogs so let them have fun and don't make them walk beside you. Find out what meat she loves, grill it and stuff a capsule in a small chunk of it just large enough to totally hide the capsule. Mix that with her kibble and mix that in with any oils that come from the grilling. I give mine about 10 capsules total per day in a combination of sodium bicarbonate, renal K, pet tabs plus and amino fuel. After being on this regimen for a time her appetite came back. It is a lot of work but something we accept. Dogs chew muscle meat but tend to swallow fatty meats. As a result she is less likely to notice the hidden capsules in small chunks of fatty pork. This is what worked for me. I'm not saying it will work for you but at least give it a try before you give up. I wish you the best.

[DebraDownSouth]

@anna
Please give Pam a call or write her.

[Anna]

@debradownsouth

Hi Debra, I emailed Pam on March 2nd and she responded very quickly. She was very informative and gave me a lot of suggestions. However, at the time I had emailed her, Lily was eating the cat food with the pills in it. I will have to email her again and update her on Lily’s status. She had suggested that maybe Lily doesn’t feel good when she takes the pills and that’s why she refuses to take them. I think this is a valid point. She suggested giving fewer pills more frequently. I ordered a bacon flavored paste that coats pills from Amazon. When it comes, I will try her suggestion. Thank you for following up. I appreciate it. I will post an update after trying the paste and let you know how Lily is doing. Thanks again.

[LifewithAva]

You mentioned soft cheese, but have you tried Kraft Easy Cheese (in the spray can)? It was my go-to for years. Most coatings, like meat, gravy or regular cheese, will either dissolve or separate from the pill so the dog gets the bitter taste and spits out the pill. Spray cheese is sticky, so the instinct is to swallow it quickly, pill and all. Vary the flavors so Lily doesn't get tired of it. For a change, you can coat in cheese and dip the tip in gravy, meat or bacon bits-- something extra fragrant and yummy.

I hope your Lily does well on the Protocol! I pilled more than 20 pills a day for seven years. It gets easier.