Oakley-emergency surgery

[Chealsie508]

He was on the Flagyl for ten days lost surgery then on it for 5 days a week later then a month ago he was on it again for a week while transitioning to the ID from fromms. My concern is his stools react anytime I try to add the fromms (even a tiny amt)..I have to check to see if there are grains in the ID diet but he usually gets very small amts of grains/ I wonder if that could be causing allergic tendencies…I've been searching dogfoodanalysis and may try natural balance (don't want to but it's seems lower in protein and limited ingredients) or I might try freeze dried orijen..it's a risk bc of the protein content but the I ingredients look right and it's grain free..ugh...I thought when I found the fromms my food battle was over..

I did ask my ER vet about fortiflora but she seemed to believe that research on probiotics for dogs is inconclusive and likely not beneficial for him; that was about a month ago

[Nemo]

The research with probiotics and people isn't really conclusive or straight forward either but many find benefits with them. But it's one of those things that might help and really can't hurt too much other than your pocketbook and maybe some gassiness with your dog.

Which ID food was it? What was the protein? Which Fromms were you using? In this case you may just have to try a less than ideal food but better than the ID to get him more normal and then transition back to a better food.

One thing to consider is the Nutriscan test (I haven't looked back in the thread to see if it was brought up before). http://nutriscan.org/ It's a bit pricey if you do both panels but it might indicate if he has sensitivities to any particular things and then you would know to avoid them in diet selection.

[Nemo]

Oh, and you might want to consider L-glutamine as a supplement to help improve the intestinal mucosa. I gave it to Nemo on my vet's recommendation. I've also read where it might help with diarrhea.

[eeeefarm]

I know people who use yoghurt with some success after antibiotics, so that might help him if he isn't allegic to dairy. Probiotics shouldn't hurt and might help, so why not try them? After all, you are trying to repopulate the gut with the "good" bacteria the Flagyl wiped out.

And why are you using the dry food? I ask because if it's Hill's ID for example, the wet appears to have a much better formulation, albeit that both contain corn. (which so many dogs are allergic to!) I have used NRG dehydrated for many, many years, and never had any digestive issues or allergic issues, but maybe I have just been lucky enough to have dogs from lines that don't have that predisposition. I don't like dry foods, although they are convenient. But they have no "life". The processing takes that out of them, which is why they have to add the premix because the food would not sustain an animal without it.

[Buddys Pal]

@Chealsie508:

Anyone have any good suggestions on a high quality lower/ less rich dry dog food?? I have noticed that while he is gaining weighty and his stools are firm he is itchy, shakes his head/ears all the time and is getting flaky and dry skin. I know the point of the ID diet is to be less allergenic/reactive but I swear he is having a reaction to it.

I think the avg protein is 24%, I'm not sure if the protein is the issue or if its overall just too rich.. Either way, I really want him to get off of the ID since I'm so sure his allergy symptoms are related. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and looked into! I like the idea of orijen but I know the protein content is higher so I'm not sure if that'll be a bad idea or if its worth a shot bc it's not fromms??

Help please?!

Fromms is highly recommended, I know of a few that have changed over due to recalls etc. But chicken may be the culprit. I noticed the same dry skin and itchiness in Uzie on any chicken. So I switched to a Ocean fish and Beef. I preferred him with Bison, but the kibbles are too big in the Wolf. The Solid Gold 'Barking at the Moon' has 41%protein, 20 fat,4%fiber. (he does run around with other dogs at day care all day and is not 100% couch potatoe, he was weighing in at 25 lbs last week, lost 3 lbs in 6 months) He has thrived on it, any processed chicken product seemed to make him itchy. He gets chicken cooked by me, from time to time with no ill effects…..So if that protein is too much (is this the richness you mention or does his food have too much of fillers like corn, potatoes etc in the first three ingredients?? The ID may have it,?)
PS: does anyone think the protein is too much for my boy? Please advise.....he only gets a total of 1C per day and the calorie ratio is 465/C

[ownedbyspencer]

Sadly, I'm finding that Fromm's does not agree with Ava, as well, though she did great on Fromm Puppy. I've tried three different varieties of Fromm adult food (none chicken; two grain-free), and she has had paw licking, ear scratching and anal gland issues on every one. I give her FortiFlora every day, and she's still having issues. She had a reaction to two kinds of Fromm treats the very first time I gave them to her. I believe they do contain grains.

I think highly of Fromm's, but I'm having to switch brands. I really don't know what's causing the reaction, but the consensus seems to be that it's too "rich" for Ava's digestion. I was advised to stick with around 24% protein, grain-free food with her, and I'll probably go with a salmon/sweet potato or duck/sweet potato blend and mix two different kinds.

[clokatys]

does anyone have a basenji that plucks fur out of another dog. kobi does this to my eskie. than she throws up
hairballs because she eats it. its gross. don't know how to get her to stop. we are having him shaved down so
she cant do it and he will also be more comfortable in this heat.

[Buddys Pal]

Here is a pretty reliable index of dog foods. I say 'pretty' reliable since some of the reviews are a few years old. I got the answer to my question that the protein content is too high for Uzie as he is a small breed. So if you are willing to do a small research project, here is the site:
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/ I gave you the Home page and if you follow the left column down to "index of reviews" there is an alphabetical listing of foods.

and here http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=protein_myth

ok, so the amount of crude protein has to do with the QUALITY! Like the article in TheDogFoodProject-is too much protein bad? Cow hooves, feathers, and shoe leather are protein as well as corn gluten meal. So, in the end, my food is just fine for Uzie, and a little water added is a good thing!

[clokatys]

okay thanks

[Chealsie508]

I just read the ingredients in the ID diet..and oof, they are horrible- corn, brewers yeast, beet pulp, by product meal! No wonder he's it itchy!! The panel idea is interesting, clearly he's sensitive to something but is it an allergy test or something more? I can't necessarily say its an allergy but more of an intolerance..if it is an allergy it's not bad. We have tried all kinds of fromms, but he prefers the grain free beef over the surf and turf, he likes the chicken and even though it has limited grain I don't see a reaction from it..he's always preferred beef over fish. I'm not sure what the richness problem is, whether its too much protein or if its another "richness"…I even looked at less quality foods bc I think that's probably the answer as a lot of the high quality foods we've tried he found too rich for his GI Tracy and now after the surgery he's even more sensitive..but even still I don't know what to choose??

[Chealsie508]

Also, oakleys underweight still at 21.4 lbs, I was thinking of adding fish oil to his diet to help his coat, dandruff and itchiness but I'm not sure what a good dose is?? Any ideas on that and if if will affect his stools? I'm trying to avoid anything that causes us to go backwards and get soft loose stools?

[eeeefarm]

@clokatys:

Kobi is on Hills Z-D with her IBD, and Flagyl. We have weaned her down to a very small amount of Flagyl liquid form.
She is doing great on the Z-D so far. Except now she is plucking the fur out of my American Eskimo boy and I have
to get him shaved down (Which he is old so he probably be more comfortable anyway in this 90 degree heat we
have been having) She threw up a huge hairball the other day so we cant have her doing that with her IBD. Does
anyone know what Flagyl does to the dogs system after a long period of time. EEEEfarm mentioned something
about it destroys some kind of something. Also sadly I found out my breeder lied to me about this whole Basenji
IBD issue.

Has your Basenji been diagnosed as having inherited IPSID (ImmunoProliferative Small Intestinal Disease)? A genetic predisposition can be carried and not expressed, and then appear in offspring, possibly triggered by environmental factors, e.g. food, stress, etc.

Flagyl is an antibiotic and would likely be prescribed for suspected infection and to reduce inflammation. Prednisone or other steroids might also be used. Any antibiotic will destroy "good" gut bacteria as well as bad, so repopulating the gut with the beneficial bacteria is important after a course of antibiotics. I have no direct experience with IBD in dogs, although I did have an aging cat that developed it, I suspect due to dietary factors.

[clokatys]

Michigan State diagnosed it as mild Inflammatory Bowels Disease. Which my vet says is inherent in certain breeds and Basenjis
have there own type, which is IPSID so basically the same thing but in a Basenji form I guess. Obviously it is inherent as this other
dog from my breeder has it to. Unless it is a coincidence. Which I could buy if he hadn't lied about the fact none of his other puppies
from any other litter has come down with it except Kobi, which he knows is not true since this other girl called him about her Basenji
before I di with the same situation.

[Chealsie508]

Eeefarm, I'm using the dry bc oakleys always been fed dry and also I don't want to increase the likelihood of soft stool by using a wet food…not to mention its also less expensive ( if u considering 36$ for an 8lb bag inexpensive!) lol

[Chealsie508]

Pamela, oakleys having similar symptoms from the ID diet that you're having with the fromms. I tried yogurt which didn't work and his ER vet told me that many dogs don't digest dairy we'll and its not a great idea so I won't try that again…in looking at a lot of food I saw protein contents consistently higher than 24% which has me worried that I won't be able to ever switch him to a high quality food. But most three star foods I looked at (lower quality than the 5/6 star we use) were packed with grain and Oakley cn have limited grain at the most..it certainly can't be littered with grains.

Tough decisions ahead

[tanza]

Sorry to hear that your breeder did not own up to the fact that there were others with the same problem….. sad.....

Can you add a probiotic? I use FortiFlora and purchase on line at Amazon, link below

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017WDWQE/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Chealsie508]

So I've been researching on dogfoodanalysis.com and dogfoodadvisor.com and there are a couple different dry foods I'm looking into, I also started thinking about trying freeze dried food to see if that would be an easier switch for him. It's hard to pinpoint what the "richness" is in the high quality foods we've tried in the past and with the fromms post surgery that's causing diarrhea/ soft stools. I think first to try is going to be natures variety instinct freeze dried…I was looking for something with lower than normal fat and protein ratios (taking a shot in the dark the protein is a cause) this is the link to the ingredient and analysis breakdown:

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/natures-variety-dog-food-raw-frozen/

[DebraDownSouth]

Pat I have always used Fastrack, but going to check your link out as my supplier is gone. Might be time to look into something new.

Edited: WHEW, ouch, over 50 for 90 doses. I get a lot more, double, from Fastrack, but thanks cause YIPPEEE Amazon now carries it.

[lisastewart]

Have you tried the purina probiotics as an additive to his food? It works wonders when mine have diareah, or just plain yogurt in his meals.

[Chealsie508]

Lisa- not sure if you're asking me as the thread got off topic but no I haven't tried the fortiflora. I was ready to until my vet suggested not to..I've tried yogurt with no success