@debradownsouth hopefully it has been to the vet by now
Oakley-emergency surgery
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I just read the ingredients in the ID diet..and oof, they are horrible- corn, brewers yeast, beet pulp, by product meal! No wonder he's it itchy!! The panel idea is interesting, clearly he's sensitive to something but is it an allergy test or something more? I can't necessarily say its an allergy but more of an intolerance..if it is an allergy it's not bad. We have tried all kinds of fromms, but he prefers the grain free beef over the surf and turf, he likes the chicken and even though it has limited grain I don't see a reaction from it..he's always preferred beef over fish. I'm not sure what the richness problem is, whether its too much protein or if its another "richness"…I even looked at less quality foods bc I think that's probably the answer as a lot of the high quality foods we've tried he found too rich for his GI Tracy and now after the surgery he's even more sensitive..but even still I don't know what to choose??
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Also, oakleys underweight still at 21.4 lbs, I was thinking of adding fish oil to his diet to help his coat, dandruff and itchiness but I'm not sure what a good dose is?? Any ideas on that and if if will affect his stools? I'm trying to avoid anything that causes us to go backwards and get soft loose stools?
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Kobi is on Hills Z-D with her IBD, and Flagyl. We have weaned her down to a very small amount of Flagyl liquid form.
She is doing great on the Z-D so far. Except now she is plucking the fur out of my American Eskimo boy and I have
to get him shaved down (Which he is old so he probably be more comfortable anyway in this 90 degree heat we
have been having) She threw up a huge hairball the other day so we cant have her doing that with her IBD. Does
anyone know what Flagyl does to the dogs system after a long period of time. EEEEfarm mentioned something
about it destroys some kind of something. Also sadly I found out my breeder lied to me about this whole Basenji
IBD issue.Has your Basenji been diagnosed as having inherited IPSID (ImmunoProliferative Small Intestinal Disease)? A genetic predisposition can be carried and not expressed, and then appear in offspring, possibly triggered by environmental factors, e.g. food, stress, etc.
Flagyl is an antibiotic and would likely be prescribed for suspected infection and to reduce inflammation. Prednisone or other steroids might also be used. Any antibiotic will destroy "good" gut bacteria as well as bad, so repopulating the gut with the beneficial bacteria is important after a course of antibiotics. I have no direct experience with IBD in dogs, although I did have an aging cat that developed it, I suspect due to dietary factors.
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Michigan State diagnosed it as mild Inflammatory Bowels Disease. Which my vet says is inherent in certain breeds and Basenjis
have there own type, which is IPSID so basically the same thing but in a Basenji form I guess. Obviously it is inherent as this other
dog from my breeder has it to. Unless it is a coincidence. Which I could buy if he hadn't lied about the fact none of his other puppies
from any other litter has come down with it except Kobi, which he knows is not true since this other girl called him about her Basenji
before I di with the same situation. -
Eeefarm, I'm using the dry bc oakleys always been fed dry and also I don't want to increase the likelihood of soft stool by using a wet food…not to mention its also less expensive ( if u considering 36$ for an 8lb bag inexpensive!) lol
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Pamela, oakleys having similar symptoms from the ID diet that you're having with the fromms. I tried yogurt which didn't work and his ER vet told me that many dogs don't digest dairy we'll and its not a great idea so I won't try that again…in looking at a lot of food I saw protein contents consistently higher than 24% which has me worried that I won't be able to ever switch him to a high quality food. But most three star foods I looked at (lower quality than the 5/6 star we use) were packed with grain and Oakley cn have limited grain at the most..it certainly can't be littered with grains.
Tough decisions ahead
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Sorry to hear that your breeder did not own up to the fact that there were others with the same problem….. sad.....
Can you add a probiotic? I use FortiFlora and purchase on line at Amazon, link below
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017WDWQE/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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So I've been researching on dogfoodanalysis.com and dogfoodadvisor.com and there are a couple different dry foods I'm looking into, I also started thinking about trying freeze dried food to see if that would be an easier switch for him. It's hard to pinpoint what the "richness" is in the high quality foods we've tried in the past and with the fromms post surgery that's causing diarrhea/ soft stools. I think first to try is going to be natures variety instinct freeze dried…I was looking for something with lower than normal fat and protein ratios (taking a shot in the dark the protein is a cause) this is the link to the ingredient and analysis breakdown:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/natures-variety-dog-food-raw-frozen/
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Pat I have always used Fastrack, but going to check your link out as my supplier is gone. Might be time to look into something new.
Edited: WHEW, ouch, over 50 for 90 doses. I get a lot more, double, from Fastrack, but thanks cause YIPPEEE Amazon now carries it.
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Have you tried the purina probiotics as an additive to his food? It works wonders when mine have diareah, or just plain yogurt in his meals.
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Lisa- not sure if you're asking me as the thread got off topic but no I haven't tried the fortiflora. I was ready to until my vet suggested not to..I've tried yogurt with no success
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Honestly, I don't even know what "richness" means. Is that supposed to be protein content? I really don't buy into that idea too much. When Nemo had severe intestinal issues (likely intestinal cancer) which led to chronic diarrhea we were able to get him to do well on raw food for a decent period of time which is relatively high in fat and protein (I have an integrative medicine vet) where the specialist recommended the "highly digestible" science diet stuff. He had some food sensitivities before that, likely chicken (not raw but in processed foods) and corn. If your dog was having food issues before the incident then I would suggest doing an elimination diet and try a novel protein source and see what happens. I've been feeding my dogs the Sophos complete dehydrated raw food when travelling the past few weeks and it has worked well. You can buy small bags of it to try it.
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I say richness but as stated " I can't pinpoint what causes it"… It just seems that high quality foods cause him to get soft stools or diarrhea. As a pup we tried a couple of foods such as TOTW, Innova and EVO to name a few but he didn't respond we'll stool wise. When we got to the fromms he did really well...we use all varieties and protein sources. Mainly I use the grain free versions but I have and will add a limited grain version in there with no issues. Since the surgery however he cannot tolerate the fromms in any amount..we tried keeping him on the fromms and using Flagyl but that didn't help. After a month of him being a skinny mini we decided to go with the ID diet to help solidify him and get him to gain weight back. He's done well weight wise but he is developing symptoms of irritation from it.. Therefore, here I am trying to find a good food but am worried that the really good ones are too much on his stomach.. And I can't figure out how to pick a mediocre one over another
I've started looking into raw/ freeze dried foods bc event bough protein content is higher perhaps the digestability could be the problem on the dry foods..like I've said..idk what it is, I'm pulling at straws trying to get him back on balance
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Since this has evolved into a "food" thread, I'd like to add a couple of comments. It can take time…...maybe a week or two.....for the gut to adjust to a new food, so I wouldn't be too quick to reject one I otherwise liked. I assume you are slowly adding the new food, mixed with what he had been eating? A quick change is just asking for trouble. Also, if you are committed to feeding dry, try moistening it with water. Even with water always available (which it should be if they are eating dry kibble), many dogs do not drink enough for proper digestion. In nature, a dog/wolf/whatever would never be eating anything with as low a moisture content as kibble!
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It hasn't evolved off topic if that's what your referring to, the food issue oakleys dealing with now is related to his surgery as he has become intolerant of his food only after the surgery. As for transitioning…he has been on fromms for at least a year..the only transition was getting off the fromms onto the ID which per both his vets with a three day transition...trying to get back onto the fromms we have tried literally in terms of counting nibbles over weeks..it just isn't working..I've tried sticking it out on the fromms after surgery and once his initial Flagyl dose ( along with all his other post surgery meds ran their course) but after two weeks of diarrhea and literally a drop in weight (he got down to 19lbs)..he had to be put on something to ease the stress of his tract and build up his weight..I also planned on keeping him on the ID diet for awhile so he could fully gain his weight and to keep his system steady bc he'd been through the trauma and on lots of medications..until he started getting itchy and shaking his head all the time. I don't want him to be uncomfortable and for that reason I find it necessary to search for a food he can thrive on.
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I had a dog that had 6 inches of intestine removed after an absess formed from a botched neutering. I nursed him back from 13 lbs up to 26 on a 6 month diet of boiled brown rice, chicken breast and scrambled eggs. I knew he was better when he walked off with a salmon steak from our grill. he lived to nearly 15 after his surgery at 6 months almost killed him.
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Lol, Lisa!! When oAk came home and was on all the meds I boiled hamburger and rice and then chicken and rice then back to hamburger and rice..I didn't know about scrambled eggs! The vet just said a boiled bland diet…I haven't eaten rice or cooked hamburger since! It's going to be awhile before I do. I was so fortunate that his ER vet was able to palpate the entire leash (strings and all) out of his intestines and into the stomach so she could make the cut there to reduce complications. He did have bruising and loss of motility on the GI tract which he was medicated for during his stay. Honestly, so much has happened between the surgery and the present that for the 1st time ever it's hard for me to keep track of it all! He's had post surgery meds, meds for parasites just in case, fecal analysis, post op visits, regular vet visits...trying remedies like yogurt...I am tired, spent a LOT of money and am easily frazzled when it comes to him bc everytime I turn around somethings not right...I hope that soon I can put this behind us...
Maybe I need to buy some salmon steaks?! Maybe that's where I'm going wrong! -
I don't know what it is about the Fromm's. I wish I did. I see very little difference in ingredients between the Fromm Puppy and the Fromm Adult, and Ava thrived on the puppy food, but not the adult. It's frustrating– I know how you feel, Chealsie. Have you tried the Hill's a/d to try and get a little weight back on Oakley? It's gentle on their system and is higher calorie. It's made for dogs suffering from an illness/trauma or post-surgery. It was a godsend for Spencer when he was sick-- and the chicken breast/brown rice/scrambled eggs that Lisa suggested worked well, too. The scrambled eggs were his fave-- even Egg Beaters which you can microwave in a minute!
I know you're looking for a long-term solution for Oakley, but maybe the a/d or scrambled eggs mixed with kibble would be a good stop-gap? And for some reason, dogs that have issues with grains can have issues with dairy. I have found that with Ava. Yogurt and cheese don't agree with her. Pumpkin has helped her, however, and so has the FortiFlora. She has been on antibiotics almost constantly since I've had her, poor girl.
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If Oakley is having digestive issues, I would stay after from brown rice as it is harder to digest.
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I haven't tried the A/D diet…I asked the vet if she had a recommendation for either a prescription diet or a medium quality food that was grain free or limited grain and she didn't have an answer. She suggested since he's showing a slow but gradual intolerance in the ID to try the EN but that too is grain based...I like the idea of eggs to help with his coat...and he is gaining, I can no longer see his ribs or any prominences on his spine...at his peak condition he was 23.5lbs..he's currently 21.4 but he looks worlds better than at 19lbs. I will be sure not to cook him brown rice if we decide to again start cooking a bland diet for him. After surgery I used white rice and ground lean chicken or extra lean ground beef..but of course that wasn't providing any significant caloric intake. Even he seemed to get tired of it after awhile! Lol
I'm spending all my time looking at analysis breakdowns and trying to find similarities between the foods he doesn't do we'll on and the fromms specifically. It looks to be high in carbohydrates considering dogs don't need them...what I like about the natures variety instinct freeze dried food are the ingredients and the lower carbs (the protein while higher may be easier to digest in this form and its still much lower a protein % than day orijen frozen food..) and it contains a beneficial clay that helps with diarrhea or symptoms of IBD. At first I thought "clay??" But according to the two websites I listed I've been looking through they both seem to say it isn't a negative ingredient. Next is to do some independent researching of the item. If I do transition to that I'm wondering how to do the gradual transition seeing as one is a dry food and the other is a freeze dried medallion or patty..any thought?