I sent a message to the Fanconigroup today stating this and asked what the procedure was for joining the group.
Jennifer
Just need to vent - *@^@#$ Fanconi!
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Pam is having issues posting so asked me to post for her:
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Instead of giving Potassium pills, I used a Potassium powder-Potassium Citrate Granules and liquid Potassium to put in the food. Zippy had a bad gastro reaction to the prescription Potassium pills so I gave a combination of the powder and liquid. I gave Missy a combination of all three as I did not want to give that many Potassium pills to her. Neither the powder nor the liquid are prescription. The powder is Kala Health Gold Vet Potassium Citrate Granules and the liquid is TwinLab Liqui-K. The powder I would order online and the liquid I would buy at a local health food store but it could also be ordered online. I have also used powder Cranberry supplement.
It definitely could be something else in addition to Fanconi, Zippy developed a mass/tumor in the facial/nasal region after 10 years old and Missy developed Atypical Cushings and later a liver mass/tumor after 10 years of age. Missy was on lots of pills and supplements for her illnesses. Both had their blood levels under control though right up until death especially the pH level.
Jennifer
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Just wanted to update everyone on Tayda. She had her bloodwork done last week and it seems her HCO3 and Potassiums are a touch on the high side, so we are DECREASING her supplementation. That's a first. She has been the model Fanconi patient for the 5 years since she was diagnosed, all of her numbers were always spot on. Her BUN and Creatinine are still elevated (but still in the normal range) so I'm trying to decrease her protein level in her food even more. She's already on a prescription renal diet, so it's going to be tough. She's very skinny - only 12 lbs now.
Overall, her bloodwork and urinanalysis don't show anything alarming. It's easy peasy to give her LESS pills, obviously. Dr. Gonto seems pretty sure that she is experiencing some muscle cramping and that could be why her tail is down and she just seems less mobile than before. We are adding some more amino fuel to her supplementation so hopefully that helps.
It's just hard. She pees in the house pretty regularly now (and I'm sure it's not UTI related). And even when she goes outside, I have to carry her out. Maybe it's because it's cold now here in RI? Lenny won't go outside either.
I don't know. None of these things seems like reason enough to consider her quality of life compromised….. mostly it's compromising MY quality of life - having to clean up pee so often(sometimes up to 3 times an evening) but I just don't know what to do about it. I feel like i've tried everything.
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It's just hard. She pees in the house pretty regularly now (and I'm sure it's not UTI related). And even when she goes outside, I have to carry her out. Maybe it's because it's cold now here in RI?
Since her weight is down I have no doubt she feels the cold more than ever. Time to bite the bullet and set her up with a "pee" spot inside, and try to insist she use it, and not bother about taking her out? Quality of life is hard to assess, but for me if the animal is reluctant to eat that is a big red flag.
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Oh, but she does have a designated spot to pee inside - she has for about 3 years! She used to be free in the kitchen with a litterbox at one end of the room and she would pee in it reliably. Then she stopped, and all attempts to retrain her have been unsuccessful. Now she is in a large crate with a pee pad at one and and her bed at the other while we are gone during the day. She will pee on the pee pad, but unfortunately, she will often pee in her bed as well. And when we're home, she will not pee on the pee pad in the crate - she will just pee wherever.
Have you done something similar to this before? How do you insist she use a particular spot? Perhaps I am overlooking something… ?
Since her weight is down I have no doubt she feels the cold more than ever. Time to bite the bullet and set her up with a "pee" spot inside, and try to insist she use it, and not bother about taking her out? Quality of life is hard to assess, but for me if the animal is reluctant to eat that is a big red flag.
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Have you done something similar to this before? How do you insist she use a particular spot? Perhaps I am overlooking something… ?
I have been fortunate. Very seldom a problem with any of mine, only the occasional slip when they were very old and sick. If she used to use her spot inside and no longer does so, I would wonder about canine dementia, or given Basenji predilection to act in a cat like manner, perhaps trying to get your attention because she is not happy. Or just because she no longer cares. My bitches were always horrified if they had an "accident". The only two incidents I had with healthy girls were both attributable to spite (and I don't care who disagrees, it was just so d*mned obvious!) How is her attitude generally, and do you notice any other areas where she is acting out of character for her?
I sure understand your frustration. When my one old girl was nearing the end just short of 16 years, she did have some issues. Most often at night. Not fun cleaning up a mess in the morning, but really, the only thing you can do is contain the dog to an area where it doesn't matter all that much…..and personally I wouldn't crate unless she is happy to spend time there. I'd go for comfort, and to hell with the floor and furniture in "her" space.
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Well, she has always been the basenji that likes to be off on her own. Never much of a lap dog - liked to be near, but only as close as she wanted to be. And, she's still doing that. Does a lot of laying around. She and Lenny will still play and fight occassionally, and even though she hates going outside, and I have to carry her out there to pee - she will still give chase if she sees a squirrel or bird. Not as often, but she does. Although I wonder if she runs because she sees a squirrel or bird, or if she just does what Lenny does and when he runs - so does she. Hard to say.
As nice as that sounds, giving her her own space to pee as she wishes just wouldn't work here. We have a crawling - soon to be walking - baby and for sanitary reasons, as well as we plain don't want pee in the house… that wouldn't work.
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Sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place! Not an easy situation to deal with. I guess you do the best you can under the circumstances. Sorry I can't be more help. (I don't suppose there is a heated garage or similar space where the baby wouldn't be that would work for her?) Is she reasonably content in her crate?
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Sigh…. no, she doesn't really like her crate. Probably cause she knows she will have to pee and won't be able to get out. Things were just peachy perfect when she was loose in the house and peed in the litterbox. Wish I could reason with her!!!!!
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Would an x pen or similar work for her, or do you have a room she could use where it wouldn't matter so much? I know you have probably thought of all these possibilities. In my case, my girls had the run of the kitchen and laundry room, and I didn't really care too much. But I was fortunate and didn't have issues very often.
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We did the x-pen for a long time, had a piece of linoleum underneath so her pee wouldn't ruin the wood floors. She wasn't really more comfortable in there either - so we just started keeping her in the crate - so that it would all be more contained. I think the winters are more difficult because they don't want to go outside. During the summer - they are happy to be outside most of the day and bask in the sun…..
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During the summer - they are happy to be outside most of the day and bask in the sun…..
My girls used to spend all day outside in nice weather. For some reason, my boys have never wanted to do that. Hang in there. Spring will be here before you know it!
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If you confine her in an xpen with pee pad until she gets used to it, and when home leash her to you and take her to the pee pad often, reward– in other words, act like she is a puppy again, you should be able to retrain her.
12 pounds-- wow what was her normal weight? My dogs would be skeletons that small.
Too low protein is also bad, it is so hard to find a balance. Hopefully your vet can help you get more calories into her without compromising her diet.
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Debra - I didn't know that the Wimauma dogs are showing a high rate of Fanconi?
Pat, missed this before. Well we are about 18 percent of the ones TESTED and sadly a lot have not been tested, even with affected siblings/parents, even though Pam and a few members have generously offered to PAY for the test for them. So yeah, it's not only high but early onset. Very tough. Cara is a carrier, so I dodged the bullet with her, many others not so lucky.
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With Jazz I used to hide the bicarb in blobs of peanut butter and stick it to the roof of her mouth. It's stickier than cream cheese and very nearly impossible to spit out or dig a pill out of.
Just a thought.Jazz was also on PPA, which completely solved her incontinence issues for the last two years.
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I'm not sure that Tayda is incontinent, because when she pees, she squats like she's doing it on purpose. I'm still on the fence about what to do for tayda. I just feel like I have tried everything. We came home from vacation last night and in the first 2 hours we were here, she peed inside twice. The dog sitter said she had a few accidents while we were gone also. Though we left 2 full paper towel rolls out, which are gone, so I suspect it was more than a few. We have about 6 inches of snow here so maybe that's part of it, but this constant peeing indoors can not continue. I have tried for about a year and a half now to retrain her to pee outside, using ALL of the recommendations for potty training and nothing has worked. I just feel like I'm at the end of my rope and I honestly can not imagine doing this for another 3-5 years. How many gallons of pee and thousands of pills does it take before enough is enough? I wish I knew what she was thinking, that she could tell me when SHE'S had enough…. because otherwise I might always feel like I could have and should have given her more. The thing is, her bloodwork is not all that bad, which makes me second guess all of this even more. But, to look at her, she clearly is not the picture of a healthy dog. I've been trying to get weight back on her with some homemade food, but its slowgoing, at best. And i just dont know if she is comfortable or happy anymore. Sigh..... thanks everyone for listening.... this is tough. Tayda is my first dog, and even though caring for her has become difficult, I can not imagine NOT having her around.
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Michelle, I won't lie, I am not sure i could live with it either. I'd either have to design a diaper she couldn't get off or confine to one room unless I was actually holding her. If she was not so horribly thin, I would say hang in there. But something is obviously terribly wrong. Perhaps your vet can recommend some specialist to do extensive testing to find out WHAT so that you can make a better decision. My first thought with extreme weight loss is cancer, but one would think by now it would present itself. I just have nothing to offer but my sympathy and support for whatever you decide.
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I hope this may help a little. It's a link to thread about a Quality of Life scale. At minimum it is useful for starting the discussion on what to do and you can come back to it later when Tayda's health changes. An internist gave this to me when Nemo was really sick and it helped us.
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?p=154918
visit BCOA on Facebook. http://facebook.com/basenji.org
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Good link Clay, I had totally forgot about that link… It too helped me with my elders
No choice is an easy one, Michelle, we are all here to support you... whatever you decide
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Hi everyone, Just wanted to update this thread.
Tayda had a seizure last night. First time ever. It was scary and awful. It lasted a minute or two. When I realized it was happening I just sat down on the floor with her petting her telling her it was going to be okay. She was foaming at the mouth and drooling. it was awful awful awful. I have read that low potassium can be a cause for seizures so I took her downstairs after she stopped seizing to give her a potassium pill, in case that was the reason. As I was carrying her she was very limp and her head was droopy. I actually checked to see if she was breathing, to make sure she was still alive. I put her down to get the pill ready and she just laid on her side very limp. She didn't seem able to stand - I tried to put her on her feet and she just swayed sideways - her legs obviously were not going to support her. I gave her the pill and just held her in my arms hoping she would come out of her daze. After a few minutes she seemed a bit more stable, so I took her outside so she could pee. Normally after she pees she comes straight in, but this time she was wandering around outside in the snow all confused. She was kind of walking around aimlessly and bumped into the side of the steps so I went down, picked her up and brought her in the house. She continued to walk around aimlessly like she was confused and maybe couldn't see. She bumped into a few things. I picked her up and placed her in front of the water bowl and she wobbled a bit and then started drinking. Over the next few minutes she seemed to be able to reorient herself a little, I think, though I carried her back up the stairs to the bedroom. She slept for the rest of the night without any issue and in the morning she was seemingly unaffected. However, I had made my decision already that it was time to let her go.
I took the day off work today and spent it with her and Lenny. We had a nice day. Fed her all kinds of forbidden stuff (yummy high protein stuff she has not been able to have in years due to her kidneys) and cuddled on the couch. Lenny probably gained a pound today also with all the treats. She was happy all day and that makes me happy. It's just how a farewell day should be.
However, the experience at the vet was not what I wanted, but she did not suffer. I asked them to give her the catheter, bring her back to me, and then give her a sedative before injecting the stuff that would knock her out. When they took her back, I heard her scream - that was awful. I thought it was when they put the needle in (even though she has gotten blood drawn many many times without a peep) but when she came back the tech said she just screamed when nothing was happening. She has done that with my husband many times. I guess it's a nervous thing. She's been doing it for a while.
When they brought her back to me, I started feeding her treats and while she was eating them I could see she was getting drowsy. I asked why. They said they had already given her a little bit of sedative. I got upset and told them they weren't supposed to do that until I was ready. He "reversed" it, whatever that means and she perked up a bit, but probably only about 80%. I spent a few minutes with her and it seemed the catheter was a little uncomfortable for her so I gave them permission to inject the other stuff. She went limp very quickly.I'm trying not to be "angry" about it, but I am. It sucks that there was confusion at the end and I spent that last few minutes wondering "WHY IS SHE ACTING LIKE THIS, IS SHE OKAY???" It was just unnecessary stress on me and I just feel like my last few moments with her (alert) were rushed and kind of stolen…
They kept telling me to take as much time as I needed - what did they mean, afterward? Wouldn't I want to take that time BEFORE they made her drowsy and could no longer respond to me???? Ugh…. She was obviously not stressed and she did not suffer, that's the most important thing. What i have to remember is the whole day we spent on the (forbidden) couch eating (forbidden) food and all the cuddling. Those are the moments I'm going to remember. Not the 5 minutes at the vet before she passed. It sucks, but it won't do any good to be mad about it.Lenny was there with me. He wasn't particularly interested in what was going on, but afterward I put her down on the bench and he sniffed her a few times, walked around the room, sniffed her a few more times, and that was it. He sat down with his back leaning against my back. He didn't whine on the way home or anything. When we got home he seemed calm. There was some food left in Tayda's bowl and I put it on the floor for him to eat. He sniffed it and walked away! He is acting off. Definitely not interested in the food we cooked in the kitchen. He went and stayed in the living room curled up in a dog bed. He NEVER leaves the kitchen when we're cooking.
So… I'm okay, I'm happy her last day was a good one, and she seemed normal - rather than rushing to the vet because she's in pain or already on her way out. Everything about today was perfect, except for the last 10 minutes. She doesn't have to take any more pills, be anxious in her crate, or be confused about where to pee anymore. I miss her already. It's so weird without her here. Even though she mostly just laid around - I walk around the peninsula in the kitchen and expect to see her laying there… I looked at the clock at pilling time and remembered I don't have to do that anymore. I wonder how long I'll continue to do that.
Thanks everyone for being here for me.
