Skip to content

Help, we need advice re training classes please

Behavioral Issues
  • I second the clicker training suggestion…....for any breed, or for that matter, critter. It is the most precise way to indicate what behaviour you are looking for. Done correctly, it is very quick. Once you have understanding, i,e, the behaviour is on cue, discipline is a different matter. Basenjis are quick to understand what you want (regardless of training method), but getting their cooperation is another thing. If you have worked with cats at all, you will understand what I mean. :) The trick is to make the dog want to please you, not so easy with a dog that really doesn't give a rat's patootie whether you are happy with his behaviour or not. (granted, some Basenjis are more interested in pleasing you than others, but "biddable" is not a Basenji strong point!) Food rewards work well for Basenjis, but aren't the answer to all problems. I do believe in letting the dog know there are consequences when he crosses the line. (of course, he must have a clear understanding of where the line is!)

  • Is he just being overstimulated and reactive because he is on lead? Some dogs are leash reactive. So that could be part of the problem.

    Our boy also started coming more into his own around 12-13 months and began testing me more…so that could also be at play.

    I just got a book called Behavior Adjustment Training by Grisha Steward it talks about working with your dog to modify behaviors like that that can be rooted in fear, frustration, and aggression. I like what I have read so far and it has very nice illustrations to help you out as well. Maybe you can check it out and see if there is something in there for you and Kwame.

    Patience...you have a teenage boy on your hands ;)

  • moth-
    let me know how the BAT works for you. i keep hearing about it and keep meaning to learn more about it, but so far i have not. i think most of the stuff i've heard is good stuff.

  • @krunzer:

    Is Kwame food motivated? Hot dogs, pepperonis, smoked salmon, cheese? Will something like this distract him totally from another dog and get him to focus solely on you? You want to make sure that he is looking at your face and not the treat also before he gets the treat, this will teach him to look to you to see what he is supposed to do. I agree that a Basenji is NOT a normal dog, for training reasons and personality. These guys have a lot going on in their heads and will out-think you. Good luck with your training.

    Kwame is very motivated by food, however it's very difficult to get him to focus on anything other than the other dog. I need to do some work on getting him to focus.

  • @Moth:

    Is he just being overstimulated and reactive because he is on lead? Some dogs are leash reactive. So that could be part of the problem.

    Our boy also started coming more into his own around 12-13 months and began testing me more…so that could also be at play.

    I just got a book called Behavior Adjustment Training by Grisha Steward it talks about working with your dog to modify behaviors like that that can be rooted in fear, frustration, and aggression. I like what I have read so far and it has very nice illustrations to help you out as well. Maybe you can check it out and see if there is something in there for you and Kwame.

    Patience...you have a teenage boy on your hands ;)

    Yes i know what you mean about a teenage boy,lol
    He is worse on the lead , definately and had always been fine on the rare occasions we manage an off lead walk. However three times in class he has gone for other dogs , he also began to growl at another dog whilst out and off lead just on a walk.

  • @agilebasenji:

    I have to reiterate the Control Unleashed suggestion. There are also a couple of DVD's and there is also a new puppy book just out. You can also join the CU list (yahoo groups) and possibly find a CU trainer, or like-minded person near you. It sounds like the trainer is having you do exercises Kwame just isn't quite ready for. Unfortunate.

    Thank you, i will most certainly buy the book and look into the yahoo group, nothing to lose

  • @thunderbird8588:

    Yes i know what you mean about a teenage boy,lol
    He is worse on the lead , definately and had always been fine on the rare occasions we manage an off lead walk. However three times in class he has gone for other dogs , he also began to growl at another dog whilst out and off lead just on a walk.

    BAT sounds like a good fit for this…she talks about dog to dog aggression and reactivity and how to teach the dog other behavior instead of becoming overstimulated and reactive.

  • @agilebasenji:

    moth-
    let me know how the BAT works for you. i keep hearing about it and keep meaning to learn more about it, but so far i have not. i think most of the stuff i've heard is good stuff.

    I can post a review once I have finished reading it… Want to maybe apply some of it to teach my two to be less reactive with out cat in certain situations.

    I too have heard only good things about this from other trainers.

  • @Moth:

    BAT sounds like a good fit for this…she talks about dog to dog aggression and reactivity and how to teach the dog other behavior instead of becoming overstimulated and reactive.

    I agree. I finished the book a little while a go. They have a Yahoo group too. It's very complimentary to Control Unleashed. The BAT book has lots of examples of how to do setups and management on everyday walks.

  • Shelley, I've been off forum for a few days and was dismayed that you're having these problems - I would agree with Ivoss and I would stop taking him to these classes until you can get him focus on you. I can see that you instinctively feel this too. I have read Control Unleashed since I first saw it recommended by Ivoss on this forum and it all makes sense to me. I'm now going to get the BAT book too. When training him use some extra special titbit that he doesn't normally have. It also helps him to focus if you start hand feeding him for a while. I know it can be tedious to have to do this but you'll find a difference.

    You say the trainer had some success in holding Kwame down but please don't be tempted to try it - you can spoil a Basenji relationship like that.

    Have you talked with Victoria about this?

  • thank you so much for everyones replies, it is much appreciated, sometimes it can feel like you are the only one in the world with the problems although of course you know that you aren't realy.
    As an update for a while i have started to dread the training class which i was surprised to feel as it's been such a positive experience with Malaika.
    I felt on Saturday that we were being asked to do something Kwame wasn't capable of, it makes sense as Ivoss pointed out that if he's not reliable on lead then he's certainly not going to be off.
    I have seen him get gradualy worse at class and it is no longer a positive experience for either of us.
    To a degree we did trust the trainer as Malaika has done so well and realy enjoys her classes, however yes instinctively i know it's not the right enviroment for Kwame at present.
    The plan is to work on getting Kwame to focus on us and reward him with food whilst approaching another dog or noisy large vehicle that he fancies tackling, trying to drum into him that something pleasant happens during these times.
    I am going to order the control unleashed book to start with and also the other books reccomended by members.
    We are going to stop with the classes for Kwame at present.
    Victoria is aware of the situation

  • I just finished a "manners" class with my yearling boy. Basenjis and distractions are an issue for all of us and this class was absolutely great for helping with that. As already noted, you can use food to develop focus BUT use that for everything that can be a distraction not just another dog or a car. While at home, any time Kwame turns his attention to you, even just for a second, reward with a little treat. Once he learns that simply looking at you will generate a treat, then use a special word (like focus or me or look or here or whatever). Then start adding distractions inside like a chunk of food on the floor (the "leave it" command) or a special toy he likes or have someone roll a ball past (even if he doesn't care for balls, the movement will be a distraction). Any time he looks at the distraction but looks back at you, reward. Once he's showing success inside then apply this outside. When he sees another dog use your focus word to draw his attention back to you and reward. This is more than "leave it" but rather "leave it and look at me to see what I want you to do about it". It won't take long if you treat consistently.

  • @thunderbird8588:

    thank you so much for everyones replies, it is much appreciated, sometimes it can feel like you are the only one in the world with the problems although of course you know that you aren't realy.
    As an update for a while i have started to dread the training class which i was surprised to feel as it's been such a positive experience with Malaika.
    I felt on Saturday that we were being asked to do something Kwame wasn't capable of, it makes sense as Ivoss pointed out that if he's not reliable on lead then he's certainly not going to be off.
    I have seen him get gradualy worse at class and it is no longer a positive experience for either of us.
    To a degree we did trust the trainer as Malaika has done so well and realy enjoys her classes, however yes instinctively i know it's not the right enviroment for Kwame at present.
    The plan is to work on getting Kwame to focus on us and reward him with food whilst approaching another dog or noisy large vehicle that he fancies tackling, trying to drum into him that something pleasant happens during these times.
    I am going to order the control unleashed book to start with and also the other books reccomended by members.
    We are going to stop with the classes for Kwame at present.
    Victoria is aware of the situation

    Like Agile mentioned, if you are on Yahoo groups, I would highly suggest joining the Control Unleashed group and possibly the Functional Rewards (BAT focused - I'm not a member of that one). The books are great but my level of understanding of how to apply the techniques to different dogs and situations increased significantly from reading there. Plus it is a very supportive environment where other people will understand what you're dealing with.

  • OH! and google Overall's Relaxation Protocol. Start that yesterday. Do what you can in one day's worth. Maybe you can only do the first 5 things on Day 1. That's fine. I use a down instead of a sit, but it's really helpful in getting the dog to not feel like he has to be involved in everything going on around him. I use a mat for this and have had lots of fun doing it all sorts of places. People at the conformation shows were mega impressed with I sent Zest! to her mat. (I think those people are easily impressed!)

  • Have joined the online CU Yahoo group

  • Every dog is different and every Basenji is very, very different. I agree with Lisa about Kwame-he needs more time.

    Kristen, I just have a note to say if you are getting a Basenji simply because you want a challenge for training-you are getting the wrong breed. Yes, they are a challenge, but you cannot force them to train. I find it's on their agenda, not yours. You can train a Basenji all you want, but in my experience, if they want to listen to your commands, they will-if they don't want to, they definitely won't and you won't be able to make them. I would never, ever, ever trust one completely to be able to relax enough to know the Basenji will focus on you totally.

    Some B's train better than others, it depends on their ability to focus. I have one line that is not good at all about focusing. And I wouldn't trust them one inch to be able to hold any sort of training. They simply are a more unfocused line. They would do great on their own and be able to survive, of that I have no doubt.

  • I agree with Arlene about Basenjis having an agenda and training. It's very difficult to get other people yo understand just what they are like. For instance our two understand fully what heel means, we have been working on it with Malaika for two years. If they both choose to do so they can do text book loose lead walking, if however they choose not to, usualy when we have both out together, the walk can be a nightmare.
    I have purchased some gentle leaders this week to give these a go, will update when we have done.
    Re each Basenji being different, Malaika realy enjoys her classes and yodels often in enjoyment, she is a pleasure (mostly ) to train. wearas the story is very different with Kwame.

  • I had a couple who came to see, and eventually took home, a seven month old. They didn't seem to believe me on how a basenji can a) have an agenda, and b) totally ignore what you want and do what they want. They learned very quickly that B's are not the same as other dogs and will do just about anything they please-sometimes just to p–- you off! However, after two years, he is settling down somewhat and while he is getting better, they still do not trust him alone. You can love them to death, but don't get too attached to your furniture, clothes, items around the house, etc. In one split second they can go from well behaved, 'I would never do that', butter wouldn't melt in their mouth sweetness to devil dog, hell on wheels (paws) and spawn of satan.

  • The thing with Basenjis is that although once taught they know perfectly well what you want…..or what you don't want......they just aren't interested in doing it unless either there is something in it for them that is more attractive than the "reward" they get for disobeying, or the consequences of not complying are absolutely certain to happen and are displeasing enough that they wish to avoid them. Basenjis are definitely "sorry" when caught doing wrong, but they are sorry they got caught, not sorry that they did it! One of their most endearing traits when caught doing wrong is to try to distract you by being extraordinarily cute, perhaps by yodelling or putting their paw over their face or some such action guaranteed to make you smile instead of being mad at them.

  • You have received a lot of great advice, and I'm sure have a ton you want to work on, so I won't try to add anything since I think the best points I could make have been made.

    Instead, just know that you aren't alone in your feelings with Kwame. Dexter is also 13 months this February, and the experience has been a roller coaster of sorts. His threshold for attention is extremely low and very distracted by the 8 or 9 other dogs in our class. We have aspirations to train him for therapy work, so I definitely know the feeling of discouragement by the behavior.

    We started CU (and are also on the Yahoo Group) a month ago. The Puppy Book then came out this month and has given us even more information and strategies to work on. I would definitely say that Leslie's material is a great starting place for Kwame. It may feel so far off right now, but a few tweaks and I think you'll see great progress. It certainly also has to do with the age of our dogs right now.

    Have faith!!

Suggested Topics

  • Basenji Reactivity- please help!

    Behavioral Issues
    25
    2 Votes
    25 Posts
    5k Views
    DebraDownSouthD
    Cara is 11. She has only love our Samoyed in her entire adult life. No animal is worthy of breathing air. While Pam did take her about 5 years ago for a refresher course, she learned to ignore the other basenjis, not like them. If she freezes, she is definitely waiting for prey. Usually she keeps walking slowly, eyes seemingly forward, until she is within striking distance. I wouldn't trust my dog to lie in wait until you truly are sure of their intentions. Even then, do you know if their behavior may be stressing out the other dog? And how many dogs and how much time do you have to play out this behavior? On a good day, Moose the Samoyed runs into up to 10 of his harem on a long walk (usually 3 to 5). He's out to play, that's the goal. On a potty walk when my daughter or her fiance are in a hurry, they give him very little play time and he accepts it. No, he's not a basenji...but also an ancient independent thinking breed. They live to play. We get to decide when. My point being, I understand that a behavior may be normal...but I am surprised at owners throwing up their hands and letting it go. There are many situations where you need the dog to keep moving, and you want training in force before that occurs. I am not sure at the resistance against that view.
  • Help please!

    Behavioral Issues
    16
    0 Votes
    16 Posts
    4k Views
    D
    @basenji_life said in Help please!: Oh and yesterday evening she started peeing on the sofa while looking straight at him... and she normally goes outside to pee... maybe she was upset that he was home? Did you solve this issue? I had a dog who didnt like kids. Someone told me it could be because the previous owner had kids who scared the dog. So it could be a traumatic experience for the dog. And when kids were around, the dog would bark a lot always.
  • PLEASE HELP! Anxiety Issues!!!

    Behavioral Issues
    5
    0 Votes
    5 Posts
    4k Views
    D
    He should adjust in time to losing his companion. However long that takes is questionable though and he will continue to be angry and feel neglected and reflect that anger with destruction just out of loneliness. It may improve with time and may not. You have to ask yourself is this fair for your dog? I would spend nearly all my time with him when I was home taking walks, etc. and if you can't do more than 2 hrs. it may be best to find a better home for him where he has a better environment. If his new home is a better place where there is a yard to run, and owners that can spend more time with him he will gradually accept the new home and owners. I know that is hard but may be the best. When your living situation improves you may think about owning another dog. Other than that, working 2 jobs leaves the dog alone too much to be fair so you need to get someone…the same person all the time... over to your apartment to spend time with him if you don't want to give him up. He can bond to that person and that will help the loneliness somewhat. If you decided to give him up, the new owners could come over frequently for walks and visits before you gave the dog to them so that the dog would consider them friends before adoption, that would help the dog transition. I would not give that dog to an inexperienced owner though. That could end in disaster. It will do the same things with the new owner although it should get over the transition quicker because it will be in a better environment. Also, was your husband the dog's leader? You now have to be a positive leader for him because it sounds like he lacks leadership.
  • Stressed out about this behaviour and need help…..

    Behavioral Issues
    22
    0 Votes
    22 Posts
    11k Views
    A
    I agree with JayCee. I had to know his limits with my male and not put him in a position where he would fail. As yes, some dog owners dont understand the basenji play, but some do. I have met a great bunch of folks at the park who have taken some time with their dogs to help mine out. Very much appreciated. No matter what kind of dog you have, there will always be that one person at the park the park who has a problem. I avoid those folks. I also want the park to be safe for all. If someone brings their children in, I remove my dogs immediately since i dont know how they are with children. Always be respectful of other owners and dogs at the park. Anyway, i want my basenjis to be able to play with any kind of dog and not just basenjis. Success so far.
  • Please Help!!!!!!

    Behavioral Issues
    11
    0 Votes
    11 Posts
    4k Views
    S
    Fran, my older b and I are also those who can't sleep throught the night. So, we all get up and take care of business. At least your pup will out grow this… Any chance we will see you at the EBC specality in Aug in Auburn Wa again? I would love it!
  • Training Advice, Please help

    Behavioral Issues
    57
    0 Votes
    57 Posts
    17k Views
    Capt_Jack_our_BasenjiC
    yikes…....