Basenji ribs - to see or not to see?

[curlytails]

Yeah. The more I think about this, the more upset I am about it. I'm sorry I wasn't more forthright about putting my question in context.

I haven't been able to dig up contact information for the Malaysian owner/breeder. I'm not sure what I would write to him if I find his e-mail, though. Maybe ask if his dogs are okay or are they ill? Because if he was showing them like this, no wonder they "failed" to bring home any prizes… Debra, you'll enjoy this -- he decided not to follow through with his Basenji breeding program, so he's focusing on his Rottweilers instead.

Anyway, I'm serious... if any Australian breeders know who originally sold him his Basenjis (the article says he got them from a pair of Australian "champion" parents and paid over 20,000 Ringgits each to import them!), please forward the info. I don't think the reporter knows what she was looking at either, because the whole point of the article was to showcase a rare breed that nobody in Malaysia knew about. The article is entitled "Don't judge a dog by its looks," and the point that the reporter makes is that the Basenji isn't popular because they aren't particularly eye-catching to most Malaysians since they look like garden variety street dogs... But I would be saddened to think that it's "okay" for typical Malaysian street dogs to look that skinny, too...

For reference, this is what I had in mind when I was thinking of a naturally skinny sighthound:

Skinniest dog I've ever met, but I think that's how he's supposed to look, and the owner is a nice man. He also has a gorgeous Rhodesian Ridgeback who appears to me to be a perfect, sturdy weight, so I think he knows what he's doing.

[tanza]

Honestly, that picture of that hound is too thin also… that is not what I would call a natural weight that you would want on any dog. Notice how sunk in he/she is in the waist.. that is not normal for any dog at least, not in my opinion

[Chealsie508]

I too thought the same thing, what stuck out more than the ribs were the protrusions in the hindquarters- no dogs hips should "jut out" that way… They are slender by nature but not to this degree

[curlytails]

Hmm, I see what you guys are saying. I did a Google image search for some other Sloughis, and I think I see what you're pointing out. I don't know if the dog's age makes any difference? He's still fairly young, and has yet to develop muscles, but I don't know if it's better to work a chubby puppy down to a slim toughguy, or bulk up from a skinny frame.

I do honestly think the Sloughi's person is a responsible owner though, and he's not starving his dogs or anything as shocking as the Basenji guy in Malaysia. I'll keep an eye out next time I run into him.

I guess my original question about ribs and frame is also because I don't really understand how to compare the Basenji frame to other sighthounds, since they are NOT built the same. But in general, they're not built like most dogs. The difference between when I feed Bowpi and when my boyfriend feeds Bowpi is about 1.5 pounds over 2 weeks. That is, when he handles her meals, she's over 24 pounds, and when I feed her, she's about 22 ~ 23. I think even amongst ourselves, we have different perceptions of what her "ideal" weight is, but we'd certainly never get to the point where her ribs or hip bones are jutting out.

[Chealsie508]

There could be a number of reasons for the appearance of the sloughi you showed, from age to health, nutrition ( is the dog absorbing the nutrients of it's meal) etc. And knowing this i dont immediately judge an owner. I am not a breeder so this is all my opinion. I for one have a friend whose dog is healthy as a horse and no matter how much she feeds him, he maintains a slender, ribby look. You are right that everyone sees their own "ideal". My view in regards to the right weight " I know it when I see it"

[dmey]

I dont understand how someone could pay for show dogs and import then to Malaysia but not have the …. "curiosity" to research the breed , at least look at other basenjis to know what they are supposed to look like... It makes me think somethings up,... No one can see these dogs and think that's how they should be, all you have to do is google basenjis to see how they are supposed to be!!!! Not only the owner, but also the person doing the article should have investigated....

[DebraDownSouth]

Even if the guy seems responsible, something looks wrong with that dog's weight. Please talk to him.

Dear spirits, I should not have clicked on those pics. First, how do you know what it says, is there a translation? Is there any way to contact the reporter for info on the guy? That makes me sick.

[curlytails]

Debra, I read and speak Chinese. I stumbled across the site when I was trying to get a sense of whether there was any interest in Basenjis in the Chinese-speaking world, and sadly, this is what I found…

I have the reporter's name, but neither she nor the site has any contact info/e-mail/feedback form that I've been able to find yet. I think I have to contact the publisher. The website itself is annoying because you can't even comment on the articles, otherwise I would've left a note.

That was a headline article the week that it was published. The reporter concludes that Basenjis are NOT popular in Malaysia because (and I'm paraphrasing here from the article): 1) They look like street dogs, 2) They can't guard the home (because they don't bark), and 3) since they only come to heat "once a year or every other year" (according to the article), they don't have much economic value.

At this point, I feel like the reporter AND the breeder should both be boxed for not knowing what they're doing.

Sorry for the shocker re: pictures in the article, guys... but I guess that's why it's all the more unnerving that it was published as if this was how Basenjis normally look. I'll whip up a more complete writeup over the next couple days.

[saba]

Hey curlytails,

Im from Aus, and I will send off a few emails to a couple of breeders, and do some detective work, to see if I can get any info. I agree with you, Im sure the breeder will be VERY concerned to see his/her dogs in this condition, I know I would :mad:…

Can you email me the article, and when/if you have the time to do a basic translation, with names, dates etc, etc, would be great, and I will be a little 'bulldog detective', to see what I can find out ??? I dont recognize them, but it may be because they are sooooo underweight :mad:... Off the top of my head, Im unsure of anyone who exported to Malaysia, but in saying that, it doesnt mean they werent. Im sure the owner isnt lying when he said they were Aussie imports...

[Janneke]

I don't mind seeing some ribs on a dog (any shorthaired dog), but these poor pups are certainly way to skinny! I think the Sloughi looks ok for a young dog. As long as they have good musculature, I don't mind seeing ribs and hip bones on a sighthound like that. My absolute favorite breed (in looks) is the Azawakh.. and well.. they always show ribs and hipbones:

Tillo (or any other basenji) for me, looks perfect when you can see the ribs as soon as they starts to move, with a nice tuck up and good musculature.. Like this:

He's too chubby now :rolleyes:

[Quercus]

@Janneke:

I don't mind seeing some ribs on a dog (any shorthaired dog), but these poor pups are certainly way to skinny! I think the Sloughi looks ok for a young dog. As long as they have good musculature, I don't mind seeing ribs and hip bones on a sighthound like that. My absolute favorite breed (in looks) is the Azawakh.. and well.. they always show ribs and hipbones:

Tillo (or any other basenji) for me, looks perfect when you can see the ribs as soon as they starts to move, with a nice tuck up and good musculature.. Like this:

He's too chubby now :rolleyes:

Agree with all of this! Except some Bs, by nature of their shape just will never have their ribs showing, unless they are far too skinny (our Blondie)..she just is naturally more, uh, stocky, or..fluffy. Even when she was at her most perfect show weight, and coursing fitness, no ribs ever showed through.

[agilebasenji]

google is happy to translate that page into English. That's what I always use

[Buddys Pal]

This is the example of the statement 'Skin and Bones'. Just imagine the undernourished mind of these dogs- not normal indeed. So Sad!!!!

[Basenjimamma]

There was a little brindle girl (B) that I say the other day..she was skin and bones, way too skinny for me and most that saw her, but not knowing her history I don't have a leg to stand on so to speak..she might have an eating disorder, or a really hard time keeping weight on…or something else..I just wonder why show her...but then again, maybe this is how her owner likes for her to look...just not my taste.

[dmey]

"That was a headline article the week that it was published. The reporter concludes that Basenjis are NOT popular in Malaysia because (and I'm paraphrasing here from the article): 1) They look like street dogs, 2) They can't guard the home (because they don't bark), and 3) since they only come to heat "once a year or every other year" (according to the article), they don't have much economic value."

This again brings us to a common topic here on the forum. Generally speaking… On Earth... This is what people see in dogs..... Protection, Money, and to a lesser extent status!!!

[tlish]

the google translation was very poor - it talked a lot about Kyrgyzstan and 'raw shellfish guitar dogs.' and this is why i tell teachers and administrators that real human translators are invaluable.

[tanza]

@Basenjimamma:

There was a little brindle girl (B) that I say the other day..she was skin and bones, way too skinny for me and most that saw her, but not knowing her history I don't have a leg to stand on so to speak..she might have an eating disorder, or a really hard time keeping weight on…or something else..I just wonder why show her...but then again, maybe this is how her owner likes for her to look...just not my taste.

There was a bitch showing up here a couple of years ago that was very, very thin…. I thought the same thing... the comments were that she eats like a horse but runs it all off... funny thing was, she was on the road with a handler and really no place to run, so to speak.....

Who was the bitch? Did you get a catalog?

[Kipawa]

@Janneke:

I don't mind seeing some ribs on a dog (any shorthaired dog), but these poor pups are certainly way to skinny! I think the Sloughi looks ok for a young dog. As long as they have good musculature, I don't mind seeing ribs and hip bones on a sighthound like that. My absolute favorite breed (in looks) is the Azawakh.. and well.. they always show ribs and hipbones:

Tillo (or any other basenji) for me, looks perfect when you can see the ribs as soon as they starts to move, with a nice tuck up and good musculature.. Like this:

He's too chubby now :rolleyes:

Well, over at THIS house, we think Tillo is PERFECT!

[eeeefarm]

@tanza:

There was a bitch showing up here a couple of years ago that was very, very thin…. I thought the same thing... the comments were that she eats like a horse but runs it all off... funny thing was, she was on the road with a handler and really no place to run, so to speak.....

Who was the bitch? Did you get a catalog?

I would be wondering about exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI). I don't believe it is common in Basenjis, but my sister had a GSD with the problem. She ate and ate, had huge loose stools, and could not gain weight. Unfortunately she died of bloat before they figured out what her problem was….

I did find a thread on here that tells of a Basenji with the condition:

http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=7053

[curlytails]

Saba, thanks for investigating! I hope something comes out of your inquiries… maybe it's a long shot.

Janneke, those pictures are helpful. The one of the Azawakh in particular is in line with other Azawakh pictures I've seen. Somewhere I recall a breed description of Sloughis describing their musculature as similarly "dry" (Wikipedia says that too). At any rate, I don't get to see many of those breeds to compare! As for Tillo, while he has some visible ribs, he's always struck me as a brawny, athletic dog -- his muscles are clear and he looks great.

I just checked out Google translate's version. I am very amused by the literal translation of "shellfish raw guitar dogs." But yeah, you can actually get a sense of some of the article.