Our baby might be a daddy soon!

[snorky998]

"now, now….lets not get all pissy here sharron."
:mad: Uncalled for IMO. Bad form.

"i don't see why it'll be neccessarry to cut his testes. and cutting off his manlyhood in my opinion is not the responsible thing to do" (sic)
Many of us here use anthropomorphic phrases to describe our dogs, but this raises the hackles on my back!! Anthropomorphically speaking, the neutering (vasectomy) of any male, or removal of a testical(s), does NOT make that male unmanly, nor asexual. Dog or human.

As I read through this thread I never thought anyone was posting anything but sound advice. Read into it what you may, but I sincerely believe everyone, without exception, was trying to be helpful, not attacking or judging the OP, their family, or their dogs.

Kudos to you all. I can only hope 'lanemichelle…' continues to read--and learn-- as I have done since becoming a member. Thank you fellow members and administrators Dawn

[LiveWWSD]

@lanemichelleandolimar:

and cutting off his manlyhood in my opinion is not the responsible thing to do,

REALLY????

Have you considered that by not fixing your boy you are subjecting him to a much higher likleyhood of cancer as he ages. IMO that IS NOT a responsible thing to do.

[tanza]

By the way, a neutered dog can still achieve a tie with a bitch, so not really much to the argument of "cutting off his manlyhood"….. but known as "safe sex"..... plus a healthier dog for its entire life, same with spaying a bitch, as they are very prone to breast cancer and also pyrometria is life threating in bitches. If you talk to responsible breeders, many dogs are collected and neutered for both health reason and behavior... add to that "no" opps puppies....

[sharronhurlbut]

I hope this couple are still reading these posts and will "get" what we are all trying to inform.
We post here because we care about dogs and the dogs they produce.
If you can rehome all the puppies, and the puppies their puppies, then you will be able to do better than some long time basenji breeders who have done all the testing and showing of their dogs and pups. Many can't sell all their pups and sometimes have them returned. Quality breeders take the dogs back they breed no matter what the age.
We have a large amount of b's and b mixes in the US.
Hopefully, you will learn from our peoples lack of responsiblity and not be overrun with unwanted dogs, in your small area.
I just don't know how you can do it without fixing dogs who are not showing.
FYI, I lived in Hawaii.
You do have unwanted pets. I know you do.

[lanemichelleandolimar]

@Quercus:

<>
Well...that's our job. As caretakers and protectors of our breed. We will not ever be supportive of someone who has the attitude you do. So, you will never meet anyone who really loves dogs who says 'oh, you decided not to spay and neuter your pets, and then didn't pay attention when the bitch was in heat, and now want to have a litter to give out to your friends and relatives...that is GREAT' It won't happen. People who love, and care about dogs don't want to see more unplanned breeding.
If you came here looking for support, I guess this isn't the place for that. Maybe you could find an irresponsible backyard breeder forum somewhere.

what attitude do i have? everyone is attacking us.
and if we're so irresponisble, why are we caring for them, researching, taking them to the vet, and everything. explain that. another thing i wanna confirm is that our vet told us that we'd have to wait till olimar was six months to get him neutered. he's not of age yet, so how are we irresponsible for not getting him neutered yet? but since we found out how much we love basenji's we wanted to get a female and have a liter. due to the fact that our family members want them and we want some more. after that we were planning to get him neutured. the comment about not neutering him was out of anger and i'm sure that if you were also attacked in the way we were you'd say things like that too.
but i bet now you guys are gonna get on my case about how we shouldn't even make a liter. so i'm ready, start the bashing.
ps. the female is a jack russell terrier. i'll take a look at their illnesses right after this, thank you.
by the way we know we aren't as "knowledgable" as all you guys are. so isn't this what these forums are for? isn't is so that newbies like us can get some positive insight into what we are so interested in from people who do know? thats exactly why we are on this forum everyday trying to do more and more research about the puppy we love. you all were newbies at one point too. so imagine hearing that your an irresponsible owner when you're trying to ask people to help you in a postive way. i'm sure that would get you upset as well. we know we're gonna make mistakes as first time owners, but it'd be nice to hear the Pro's telling us what we're doing wrong in a postive and helpful way.
oh and another thing... send me the forum link for that irresponsible backyard breeders, sounds like just the place for me. maybe i can find a forum for you that would be best for you, but i'll keep those words to myself. i'll be "responsible" enough to not display it on this forum.
thankyou so much for your help

[sharronhurlbut]

I can imagine you are feeling attacked.
You posted something you thought was great, and we are showing distress at this. Or I am at any rate.
If you can try to understand that we are here for the dogs.
We are also here to help folks learn to care for the b's they have, train the b's they own, and help with behaviors of dogs who have been passed on and on and on. We inform about health issues and testing so when a decision is made to create a litter, it can be done with all the best info possible.
I do rescue, so I just can't celebrate another mixed litter.
I am in total support of breeders who breed after testing their dogs for all the issues they have and then breeding to improve the breed.
We all start somewhere with learning about b's and their health issues.
Maybe this is your place to learn.
There is a lot of good info on this forum.

[lvoss]

The people who have responded to your post are not attacking you, they just don't share you "joy" in this event. That is a huge difference. I posed several questions in my first post which you say you can answer easily but you did not answer them publicly.

If you would like people on this forum to believe that you are really doing your best to be responsible rather than just responding defensively and frequently quite rudely, you would actually address the questions and concerns raised in each post.

So here are some questions you can choose to answer them or not.

1. What steps are you going to take to make sure that these puppies do not become a burden on the already overtaxed shelter system?
2. Will you require spay/neuter?
3. Are you prepared to answer the many questions that new dog owners have when their puppies start exhibiting "bad behavior", such as chewing, separation anxiety, housetraining issues, resource guarding, etc? If you are not familiar with these issues do you know local trainers that use positive reinforcement that you can refer owners to?
4. Have you researched early puppy development and planned for what you will do to make sure your puppies are adequately socialized prior to leaving for their new homes?
5. Do you know where your local emergency vet is and have their number handy?
6. Do you have $2000 in cash or credit available in case of a medical emergency? If not, have you thought about what you will do if there is a medical emergency regarding the dam or pups?
7. Do you have funds available to buy whelping supplies? Do you know what is needed in a whelping kit?

These are just the questions that come to mind for this current litter.

Again before considering breeding in the future. You need to be able to answer and be willing to answer these questions when people ask.

1. What does Olimar have to offer the breed?
2. What health testing for hereditary diseases have done? What is Olimar's registered name so this can be verified in the publicly accessible databases?
3. What are your goals as a breeder?
4. How will you prevent contributing to the over burdened shelter system?
5. How will you contribute to the basenji community as a whole?
6. How will you contribute to basenji rescue? and your local animal shelters?

[DiegosMom]

@lanemichelleandolimar:

what attitude do i have? everyone is attacking us.

and if we're so irresponisble, why are we caring for them, researching, taking them to the vet, and everything. explain that. another thing i wanna confirm is that our vet told us that we'd have to wait till olimar was six months to get him neutered. he's not of age yet, so how are we irresponsible for not getting him neutered yet? but since we found out how much we love basenji's we wanted to get a female and have a liter. due to the fact that our family members want them and we want some more. after that we were planning to get him neutured. the comment about not neutering him was out of anger and i'm sure that if you were also attacked in the way we were you'd say things like that too.

but i bet now you guys are gonna get on my case about how we shouldn't even make a liter. so i'm ready, start the bashing.

by the way we know we aren't as "knowledgable" as all you guys are. so isn't this what these forums are for? isn't is so that newbies like us can get some positive insight into what we are so interested in from people who do know? thats exactly why we are on this forum everyday trying to do more and more research about the puppy we love. you all were newbies at one point too. so imagine hearing that your an irresponsible owner when you're trying to ask people to help you in a postive way. i'm sure that would get you upset as well. we know we're gonna make mistakes as first time owners, but it'd be nice to hear the Pro's telling us what we're doing wrong in a postive and helpful way.

If you truly care about the breed and want to be a breeder, then you should learn as much information as you can about the breed and breeding (which it sounds like you've already started) and try to find a responsible breeder that will teach you, and then figure out how get into breeding with a basenji that you know its family lineage and about the personalities, health, and temperments and so forth of its relatives. and make sure you have the time and money to dedicate to breeding, if you want to be a responsible breeder.. and i'm sure i'm only touching on what it takes to be a breeder, but if you're going to do it, do it right, not with a puppy from a pet store (and I'm not trying to be rude and "bash" you or your dog, but a pet store puppy is not a dog to breed with). IMO i wouldn't expect to get much support here saying you aren't going to nueter your boy because you want to breed him, not many people here are going to support an irresponsible breeder..

[Duke]

I'm not a breeder - I own 2 mixed B's. After reading this, I feel compelled to respond with my own observation. I see that you are doing your best for the task at hand - good for you. I hope you are here to learn more about your dogs and the challenge upon you. Every day should be a good day to learn something.

@lanemichelleandolimar:

what attitude do i have? everyone is attacking us.

and if we're so irresponisble, why are we caring for them, researching, taking them to the vet, and everything. explain that. another thing i wanna confirm is that our vet told us that we'd have to wait till olimar was six months to get him neutered.

• Your vet doesn't want to spay before the age of 6 month - My girl Daisy a B-mix was spayed at 8 weeks. Her mother was a rescued and pregnant Basenji. The rescue group would not release any of her pups until they were spayed or neutered to be responsibly sure there wouldn't be any chance of more unwanted dogs in a shelter.

he's not of age yet, so how are we irresponsible for not getting him neutered yet? but since we found out how much we love basenji's we wanted to get a female and have a liter. due to the fact that our family members want them and we want some more. after that we were planning to get him neutured. the comment about not neutering him was out of anger and i'm sure that if you were also attacked in the way we were you'd say things like that too.

but i bet now you guys are gonna get on my case about how we shouldn't even make a liter. so i'm ready, start the bashing.

• This is the "attitude".

ps. the female is a jack russell terrier. i'll take a look at their illnesses right after this, thank you.

by the way we know we aren't as "knowledgable" as all you guys are. so isn't this what these forums are for? isn't is so that newbies like us can get some positive insight into what we are so interested in from people who do know?

• Yes - everyone was a newbie at one point - but you're not absorbing what is important by being so defensive. This place is a wonderful resource - if you realize the fact that seasoned breeders and dog handlers are here trying to help you - not attack you.

thats exactly why we are on this forum everyday trying to do more and more research about the puppy we love. you all were newbies at one point too. so imagine hearing that your an irresponsible owner

• No where on here did anyone call you an irresponsible owner. This is the place to learn how to be a responsible owner - for the love and help for your dear furkids.

when you're trying to ask people to help you in a postive way. i'm sure that would get you upset as well. we know we're gonna make mistakes as first time owners, but it'd be nice to hear the Pro's telling us what we're doing wrong in a postive and helpful way.

• I've read over and over where the Pro's were doing just that - informing you at best - Being defensive at every turn isn't helping you.

oh and another thing… send me the forum link for that irresponsible backyard breeders, sounds like just the place for me. maybe i can find a forum for you that would be best for you, but i'll keep those words to myself. i'll be "responsible" enough to not display it on this forum.

thankyou so much for your help

[tanza]

While anyone can have an "opps" litter/breeding.. even the most experienced breeders… and that is not the point... I think that the point is "how" excited you are... instead of "Oh Crap".... OK... now what do we do?"....

OK... so here is a question, how old is the Jack Russell bitch? (and while they are separated into two different breeds by name.... health concerns are pretty much the same for both)... and why was she not spayed?... And since you knew that you had an intact male and intact bitch... that makes it so much harder when the bitch is in season... well OK... you had an "opps"..... but what are you going to do now....

If you really want to be a responsible breeder of Basenjis.. has any of your boy's litter (and it would be nice to learn how to spell "litter") been shown or in performance events, done their CGC (Caine Good Citizens test)? Fully health tested? There are a few responsible breeders in Hawaii... have you talked to them? Do you want to?

Instead of being on the defensive, the other side of the coin is.... help me to learn what I need to do to be a responsible breeder... Be responsible and have these pups spayed/neutered before you place them.. so this doesn't happen to someone else with another dog....

[sharronhurlbut]

Thanks Pat, as always you put it so well.

[fountainhead]

they give dog's abortions?

[sharronhurlbut]

Yes, the vets can terminate a pg for a female when they fix her when she is pg.
I also think they have a pill they can give a female in the early stages to have her lose the pg…but not sure about the time frame or the effectiveness of it.

[tanza]

@sharronhurlbut:

Yes, the vets can terminate a pg for a female when they fix her when she is pg.
I also think they have a pill they can give a female in the early stages to have her lose the pg…but not sure about the time frame or the effectiveness of it.

The pills rarely work …. and honestly, most Vets are against spay/termination unless it is a health issue... but spay for sure immediately after. Remember that 99% of bitches will have a season after whelping within 3 to 4 months...

[khanis]

@tanza:

There are a few responsible breeders in Hawaii… have you talked to them? Do you want to?

Of course, I have to jump in here. Pkease all remember that I have had, and today have two bitches from John in Hawaii [one down from my own dogs over there].
Let's get real technical here…. and I am not yelling, I just want this point understood by everyone reading this thread:

THERE IS ONLY ONE 'ACTVE' RESPONSIBLE BASENJI BREEDER IN HAWAII. Period.

There are two 'inactive' breeders [each only had 2 litters in the past 15 years]. Rita moved up to Washington, so only John Gaidos is there now.

Unfortunately, there is a horrid puppy store that imports all breeds from Australia. Basenjis are sold there throughout the year.
There is one active BYB there, and he breeds regularly.
NONE of his stock is health-tested.

RESCUE IS A PROBLEM in Hawaii. Don't let the fact that it is remote or a small place fool you…. basenjis also end up in shelters there!

Now that your dog has sired a litter, you NEED to get this testing done.
Hips can be pre-Limmed. Elbows and Patellas can be done. Thyroid at a year old. Eyes can be done, you will hae ot go to the eye doc there, and it runs $50 for an exam.

If you feel that your dog is of good quality, start doing somethig with him... show him, take him to performance events.... agility, obedience, rally... get him involved with something that can prove his worthiness as a stud dog.

I wouldn't use a dog that did not have heath clearances nor any titles. The dog I am using this year is located in Ohio and I live in Oregon. He is a Dual Champion, as well as having several agility titles and working on his obedience too. This makes a good stud dog.... well titled and passing all health clearances!!

SORRY to be so blunt, but it was the only way that I felt I could get across what I wanted... and what I deem important in a dog and it's use as a stud.

[sharronhurlbut]

Thanks Kathy. I am afraid this person has stopped listening.
Its too bad.

[nomrbddgs]

I'm a little late on this one, but here's my two cents on not neutering a male. Males can also get prostititus. (I think that's spelled right) I had a mini Schnauzer that had it-three times before I finally had the chance to fix him. To the cost of over $1000 each time he got sick before he finally got healthy enough to neuter him. This is a real problem as well.

[khanis]

With this mind set, the dog NEEDS to be neutered.

Then tested!

[sharronhurlbut]

I don't think you will have anyone on this forum disagree with your last post Kathy.

[tanza]

And I hope that this person reads the post today from the couple in Texas…under the screen name of Porthos and their "opps" breeding