@senjisilly just now saw your reply. Thanks for the pedigree website. I knew about it and it’s a great resource.
Our baby might be a daddy soon!
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Shelters are full of homeless animals who came into this world much like this litter if Meli is truly pregnant have will enter it. The owners of the parents did not spay/neuter and thought it "wouldn't happen to them". Most of the owners probably told their friends and relatives exactly what you have said here, "We will keep 1 and find good homes for the others." They may even think that they did just that completely unaware that their "perfect home" dumped the puppy in the shelter at 6 months old when it was teething on every piece of furniture and shoe in the house. Or that "wonderful family" dumped their puppy at 18 months old when it was going through its adolescent testing everyone phase.
Please microchip the litter so that if they do turn up in the shelter, the shelter will have a contact number so you don't add to the homeless animal problem. Make sure the puppies are spay/neutered so that they do not perpetuate the cycle of pet over population.
Do research on inherited diseases in basenjis and get your boy health tested for hips, eyes, thyroid, and fanconi marker test. What does Olimar have to offer the breed? What are your goals as a breeder? How will you contribute to the basenji community? to the rescue community? These are all questions you should consider before breeding. If you have trouble answering these questions then please consider neutering your boy.
thankyou for your input. i appreciate the way you stated this a lot better than some have. we know all of this and our uncle is a breeder and my boyfriend really wants to be one as well. we were already gonna do the chip and we've tested olimar for everything and it was all negative. as for meli she is clear and we've already set up a visit for the vet tomorrow…
...some people seem to think that we are unfit and are a couple of young adults that know nothing about these things. .
my boyfriend posted this to have a postive feedback, being that my family and us are very excited to see just how cute these basenjacks are gonna turn out. we didn't expect everyone to be hating on us so much. and as i stated before, our pups are most likly gonna be with our family and friends.michelle
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Really there are many health concerns that male dogs have that you should consider neutering him…. Cancer of the testicles, prostrate cancer and other prostrate problems... besides the fact that if he is not going to be used why would you want to leave him in tact? All he needs is to have one other bitch in the neighborhood come in season and he will find a way to get to it...and breed it....and if it comes in season, they know....
And to say that neutering a dog is like cutting off your manhood?.... that has to be the dumbest reason I have heard for not neutering a dog.....he stays in the house…what's he gonna do? break through the walls to get to the new in season bitch? ha yeah aren't you intelligent.
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Knowing that you had an intact female and male dog in the same house were you taking steps to prevent this from happening? Just curious…
yes they were seperated…but one day she slipped out of my sisters room.
I wasn't home. my sister wasn't watching them -
he stays in the house…what's he gonna do? break through the walls to get to the new in season bitch? ha yeah aren't you intelligent.
You would be surprised what they can do… I have seen dogs go through windows, eat doors, just to name a few... the point is, if there is a bitch in season and any place close to him... if there is a will there is a way....
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While I agree spay/neuter is the most responsible thing to do, and this may not have been the best course of events… could we back off maybe a little tiny bit?
You seem excited & I am a little bit happy for you. Although this is not ideal, this is not a "let's throw two dogs together & see what happens & how much money we can get for it" situation. A mistake may have been made in not choosing to spay/neuter these dogs, but seems to me like the owner is trying to do the right thing by them.
I'm sure after you have cleaned up after the pups for a few weeks, you will be in a hurry to make sure you get olimar neutered & not have this accident happen again, but in the meantime no need to get upset by the careless words of others. When our teenage daughters get pregnant by accident (no I'm not comparing humans to dogs), we don't berate them... we give them love & support to help them get through it & education to help them prevent it from happening again.thankyou. its nice to know that someone is not badgering us about something we didn't intentionally do. if we were doing it for money than we would be selling them, but instead they are going to our family and friends.
thanks for your kind words. i know i shouldn't have gotten upset but everyone kept attacking. as far as him being neutered. we were gonna at first but my family as well as us wanted a little basenji family. we sort of fell in love with this breed. all of them would be staying with us and both of our families are dog lovers. thats what we meant by breeding him. we just wanted to have him breed one liter just once for us.thankyou
michelle -
thankyou. its nice to know that someone is not badgering us about something we didn't intentionally do. if we were doing it for money than we would be selling them, but instead they are going to our family and friends.
thanks for your kind words. i know i shouldn't have gotten upset but everyone kept attacking. as far as him being neutered. we were gonna at first but my family as well as us wanted a little basenji family. we sort of fell in love with this breed. all of them would be staying with us and both of our families are dog lovers. thats what we meant by breeding him. we just wanted to have him breed one liter just once for us.thankyou
michelleHopefully before you do breed him… you can answer the questions that lvoss posed to you... and also do the health testing. Certainly is easier now for Fanconi that the test is available by using cheek swabs...
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thankyou. its nice to know that someone is not badgering us about something we didn't intentionally do. if we were doing it for money than we would be selling them, but instead they are going to our family and friends.
thanks for your kind words. i know i shouldn't have gotten upset but everyone kept attacking. as far as him being neutered. we were gonna at first but my family as well as us wanted a little basenji family. we sort of fell in love with this breed. all of them would be staying with us and both of our families are dog lovers. thats what we meant by breeding him. we just wanted to have him breed one liter just once for us.thankyou
michelleWe all have to grow up at some point; as a couple of young kids, we have faced a few problems as well. Most assume young=irresponsible. While we may make more mistakes & have a little more learning to do, even the dumbest kids can make good dog owners with the right intentions & eagerness to learn. We turned to this forum to learn so we can become amazing dog owners, and for the most part it is a great resource. A few badly placed words in a medium in which tone & meaning do not always get conveyed properly, words sometimes might seem a bit more harsh than intended (it has taken me months of surfing this forum to figure this out!)
I think what has gotten you so much negativity are the phrases you are using… for instance phrases like "we just want to see one litter" and "it takes away his manhood" are key bullets in the "pro spay/neuter pamphlets"... They are instant "we're irresponsible!!" flags (not saying you are; just trying to explain why people were so quick to be upset).
Honestly, every single person who has responded thus far has a lot of knowledge to share & a world of good intentions, but often times they come across the wrong way.
Do not think you are not welcome & people won't oooh and ahh when you post puppy pictures... they are just very passionate about dogs! -
he stays in the house…what's he gonna do? break through the walls to get to the new in season bitch? ha yeah aren't you intelligent.
You may say that in jest, but I do know people whose basenjis have done just that. Unfortunately, the computer that I had pictures of the damage to the walls crashed and the data was unrecoverable but it has happened.
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thankyou for your input. i appreciate the way you stated this a lot better than some have. we know all of this and our uncle is a breeder and my boyfriend really wants to be one as well. we were already gonna do the chip and we've tested olimar for everything and it was all negative. as for meli she is clear and we've already set up a visit for the vet tomorrow…
If I am doing the math correctly, you got Olimar in July at 3 months old, so that makes him only 5-6 months old right now? If this is correct, there is no way that you could have had him tested for all 4 of the inherited disorders that I listed, http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=BJ
When the tests have been done their results are recorded in the OFA database which is searchable so all results can be verified. Here is a link to the OFA record of a dog with all 4 of these tests, http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1328429#animal You can see that they are given a CHIC designation, as having performed and made open the results of these 4 tests.
Again, I urge that you please learn about the inherited disorders in basenjis, http://www.basenji.org/PUBLIC/HealthInfo.htm. Learn about the importance of vertical pedigrees and having well documented health histories in order to prevent these genetic disorders, http://www.offa.org/hovanart.pdf
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If I am doing the math correctly, you got Olimar in July at 3 months old, so that makes him only 5-6 months old right now? If this is correct, there is no way that you could have had him tested for all 4 of the inherited disorders that I listed, http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=BJ
When the tests have been done their results are recorded in the OFA database which is searchable so all results can be verified. Here is a link to the OFA record of a dog with all 4 of these tests, http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1328429#animal You can see that they are given a CHIC designation, as having performed and made open the results of these 4 tests.
Again, I urge that you please learn about the inherited disorders in basenjis, http://www.basenji.org/PUBLIC/HealthInfo.htm. Learn about the importance of vertical pedigrees and having well documented health histories in order to prevent these genetic disorders, http://www.offa.org/hovanart.pdf
and again i have read up about basenjis before we got olimar. we've already got our tests back for his fanconis so idk if my vet doesn't know anything or not so you be the judge. i don't need to be lectured things that i've read over and over. all this post was about was how we're gonna have puppies…
not killing them, not abusing them, not doing anything but be excited, caring, and wanting people to connect with that loves animals as well.this is the last time i'm gonna post something positive on this forums. all i was looking for was some fun and perhaps breeding stories with others. i guess that bashing someone is a lot better than being happy and encouraging. we love basenjis right? so why can't we be happy that theres more. with out breeding we wouldn't have any. and don't attack me about pound dogs, cause we're not letting it happen.
and so what if they're mixes? whats wrong with a mixed breed? people mix all the time, why can't different dog breeds do it? just be accepting to our decision and be happy what we're doing for the basenji community. even though they're half, doesn't mean they're not a b. same thing with if a african american and a caucasian have a baby, he still is black, he still is white. it's all the same.
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oh by the way the questions that whats his face posted. i've thought about it. and i'm able to answer them with ease. so thanks for the "positivity." it just seems like you keep bashing cause this is some huge mistake. did we forget that theres something called nature. and we live in it everyday. i love dogs and i think when someone is saying "hey my dog is pregnant" we don't go off saying "why didn't you get it spayed?", "be responsible, its the right thing so it doesn't happen again." if i'm telling you we have good families and friends for the dogs then theres no fret. don't tell me that we're doing a wrong thing or go to my local pound and see whats going on, cause i know whats going on.
i know breeding is gonna cost a lot, and i'm fine with that. i've researched that basenjis can be prone to a lot of illnesses. i read everything so please stop wasting your time typing on reapeat cause i got it the first time i read it in before i got oli. without breeding, you wouldn't have your precious b's today. if your not gonna be supportive and just being "know it all's" then i'd rather you not say anything, cause i heard it all.
thanks.
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Well...that's our job. As caretakers and protectors of our breed. We will not ever be supportive of someone who has the attitude you do. So, you will never meet anyone who really loves dogs who says 'oh, you decided not to spay and neuter your pets, and then didn't pay attention when the bitch was in heat, and now want to have a litter to give out to your friends and relatives...that is GREAT' It won't happen. People who love, and care about dogs don't want to see more unplanned breeding.
If you came here looking for support, I guess this isn't the place for that. Maybe you could find an irresponsible backyard breeder forum somewhere. -
Lanemichelle - we know nothing about you and so we cannot assess what you do or don't know about dogs, dog breeding, or dog diseases and yes that means we shouldn't judge your actions. But, for someone new to come in to this forum and say "our dogs accidentally had a litter and isn't that great", it rubs A LOT of people the wrong way because of the numerous accidental dogs that have gone to shelters in the end and had to be "put down". If you have done your homework on the two breeds as you now say then fine, we'll help you with whatever questions you have. But just as you expect us to understand your background without giving us that information, understand us and our concern for the basenji breed and all the rescues that have to be taken care of. Do a search on this forum for Iowa and read about a recent situation about breeding that went wrong and you'll understand why we get all uptight. As I say, be as understanding of us as you want us to be of you.
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Lanemichelle- Well good luck over the next bit as you get these pups out. Just a quick question when it comes to the dam. Is she a Jack or a Parson Russel. How old is she? Has she been tested for PRD and had hips checked. I know you said you have studied Basenjis, I just wanted to make sure you have also checked into Russells health problems as they also have a number of geneticaly inheritable issues, some that we have no idea if inheritance occures based on Autosomal Recessive Inheritance or not. This would mean that for many of the disorders in these breeds you may be safe, but there is no guarentee that some disorders would not be passed on.
Again good luck with this, having pups is an extreamly time/resorce consuming process. If you need any further info on Jack/Parsons let me know and I would be happy to point you in the direction of some good info.
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My point was that there is no way that at 6 months old Olimar could have "all" of his tests. One of the tests is not valid until 12 months old and another not valid until 2 years old. If you provide Olimar's registered name, I would be happy to see if his results are in OFA because if they are not then there is a good chance that your vet was unaware of the DNA Marker Test for Fanconi Syndrome. This would not be unusual many vets are unaware unless their clients have printed out the information from http://www.basenjihealth.org
I have frequently posted the names and links to my dogs OFA pages, anyone is welcome to verify that I do the testing on my dogs that I tell others to do. The only dog in my house without her CHIC designation is the one that is too young to obtain it. I would happily post them again if you want to verify that I really do the testing. I feel very strongly about breeding for good health and temperament. Most puppies born will be pets and companions for people who have no interest in showing their dogs, every breeder owes it to those owners to breed healthy, well adjusted, sound tempered dogs for those families. These things do not happen by accident and require a lot of work.
I volunteer at my local shelter, and have a different view of what happens there then the people I see who come in to just "visit" the dogs. Those people may very well make the assumption that when a dog leaves the adoption floor that it was adopted. People prefer to think of "happy endings", that is not always the case. Dogs leave the adoption floor for several reasons in our shelter. They leave for spay/neuter, they leave because they get sick, and a few leave because they have the equivalent of a mental breakdown, these ones end up euthanized. Another thing that many don't realize is that at most shelter now, dogs must pass a temperament test to make it to the adoption floor. There are several breeds, such as terriers, whose inborn traits predispose them to score low on most of these tests making it difficult for them to "pass" these tests. If you are not actively volunteering and involved at your shelter, then I don't think you can fairly say that you know what is happening there.
Raising a litter is a lot of work and a huge time commitment. Here are some websites with information of things you can do to help make sure they develop into well adjusted adults:
http://tehillahgermanshepherds.com/earlystimulation.html
http://www.echowyn.com/Ruleof7.htmlAlso, know who your local emergency vet is and have the number handy. I have shared on this forum the terrifying experience of a stuck puppy at 3am and having to have an emergency C-section and losing a puppy. Hopefully all goes without a hitch but it is best to be prepared in case things do not.
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And here is the link for Parson Russell Terrier's CHIC requirements, which are CERF exam (eye test), Patellar Luxation, and Congenital Deafness
Remember without knowing the "family" history, you have no idea what kind of problems you are going to get… and Basenjis are quite known for Patellar Luxation, so between the two breeds, this is a problem, along with possible Eye problems.
http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=JT
There is so much that goes into breeding, hard enough keeping tract of health concerns in one breed, let alone mix breeds.
And to add to lvoss's note about knowing your ER Vet Clinic is vidal… my friend that has Silky's had the same thing happen... while she didn't require a C-section, it was still well over 2000.00 and a lost puppy....
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And here is the link for Parson Russell Terrier's CHIC requirements, which are CERF exam (eye test), Patellar Luxation, and Congenital Deafness
Remember without knowing the "family" history, you have no idea what kind of problems you are going to get… and Basenjis are quite known for Patellar Luxation, so between the two breeds, this is a problem, along with possible Eye problems.
http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=JT
There is so much that goes into breeding, hard enough keeping tract of health concerns in one breed, let alone mix breeds.
And to add to lvoss's note about knowing your ER Vet Clinic is vidal… my friend that has Silky's had the same thing happen... while she didn't require a C-section, it was still well over 2000.00 and a lost puppy....
Thank you for posting this Pat. It is important to note that Basenjis aren't the only ones with health risks when it comes to breeding, and mixing two dogs doesn't mean you nesicarrily mitigate the health concerns for each breed.
P.S. Do you have any pups down in Dallas this week?
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Thank you for posting this Pat. It is important to note that Basenjis aren't the only ones with health risks when it comes to breeding, and mixing two dogs doesn't mean you nesicarrily mitigate the health concerns for each breed.
P.S. Do you have any pups down in Dallas this week?
Exactly…. in fact breeding mixes can make many, many problems worse.... it is one of the things that people forget when making statments that mixes are "healthier" then purebreds... which is totally not true... the difference is, purebreds know the health concerns, follow them, test for them, tell people... with a mix no one keeps track of the health problems... however just visit your local Vet and/or shelter and ask them about health problems in mixes, let alone poorly bred purebreds....
And nope, no pups in Dallas...couldn't get off work to go...
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"now, now….lets not get all pissy here sharron."
:mad: Uncalled for IMO. Bad form."i don't see why it'll be neccessarry to cut his testes. and cutting off his manlyhood in my opinion is not the responsible thing to do" (sic)
Many of us here use anthropomorphic phrases to describe our dogs, but this raises the hackles on my back!! Anthropomorphically speaking, the neutering (vasectomy) of any male, or removal of a testical(s), does NOT make that male unmanly, nor asexual. Dog or human.As I read through this thread I never thought anyone was posting anything but sound advice. Read into it what you may, but I sincerely believe everyone, without exception, was trying to be helpful, not attacking or judging the OP, their family, or their dogs.
Kudos to you all. I can only hope 'lanemichelle…' continues to read--and learn-- as I have done since becoming a member. Thank you fellow members and administrators
Dawn -
and cutting off his manlyhood in my opinion is not the responsible thing to do,
REALLY????
Have you considered that by not fixing your boy you are subjecting him to a much higher likleyhood of cancer as he ages. IMO that IS NOT a responsible thing to do.
