I must add my vet to those who get kudos - Dr. Carlos Gandara at Companion Animal Hospital in Blaine MN. When EL D got sick, instead of "here's some antibiotics, come back in 2 days", he spent the entire evening going through test after test trying to address all the symptoms - he didn't give up until he had an answer (and it was right). He believes in "wellness exams" looking at all aspects of a pet, and when I brought Gossy in the other day, he discussed nutrition with me (yes I said nutrition - he talked about corn fillers and raw diets). While he doesn't subscribe yet to multi-year DHP vaccines (he does 2yr now), he has been doing his homework and knows the pros and cons. (And he knew basenjis only come into estrus once a year.) I have known many vets over the years and vets at the University vet hospitals but I'm absolutely impressed with Dr. Carlos - besides he's funny.
Trip To The Vet
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I have a prong collar (the prongs had dull tips) for EL D but used it ONLY DURING obedience class and practise in home.
The instructor was adament that these collars never be used for general wear and made sure we all took them off our dogs before we left class (she also insisted never use the prong collar with any other collar). She used these collars only for training purposes and not to prevent pulling - for that she brought bitter apple spray (any time a dog began pulling too much the dog would get a little sprayed). Even though EL D is pretty headstrong, I never really had to tighten on that collar. -
I have a prong collar (the prongs had dull tips) for EL D but used it ONLY DURING obedience class and practise in home.
The instructor was adament that these collars never be used for general wear and made sure we all took them off our dogs before we left class (she also insisted never use the prong collar with any other collar). She used these collars only for training purposes and not to prevent pulling - for that she brought bitter apple spray (any time a dog began pulling too much the dog would get a little sprayed). Even though EL D is pretty headstrong, I never really had to tighten on that collar.Please be careful with these techniques, particularly with Basenjis. Bitter apple is not intended to be used in that manner, and could very well hurt a dog's eyes.
What training exercises is the prong collar used for, if not pulling? IMO, the ONLY use for it is for certain dogs that are excessively pulling.
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Dallas was so good at not pulling…until he got a bit older & more confident & now, especially if he sees people, he practically tries to pull my arm out of the socket! He's small but boy does he have some strength! I was told by my trainer to continue using the standard collar & 6" leash but if he starts to pull stop dead in my tracks until he loosens the lead up, give a treat, continue walking. Well, hah, I don't know if this trainer has ever tried this on a basenji but it just doesn't work! It's like he knows he is behaving if the lead is loose but he just doesn't care because he wants to get where he wants to get to at his own pace! Haha. I have gone back & forth in harnesses but I actually like the way the one Andrea mentioned [the premier] looks so perhaps I will give that a go.
I can tell you one thing though, Dallas could weigh 3 times as much as he does now & literally rip my arm out of the socket but I still wouldn't use a prong collar…
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What training exercises is the prong collar used for, if not pulling? IMO, the ONLY use for it is for certain dogs that are excessively pulling.
With the Akitas I had, the idea with prong collar was to use a little pressure to indicate you wanted them to do something- like how some people use clickers. You don't really pull hard on it, just a little pressure. But still, I've only used them with large dogs with thick coats. I'd NEVER use them on small dogs like Basenjis.
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I find it interesting that in Sweden these collars are illegal yet in the US according to my vet you can get them anywhere. (By the way I have yet to see one in any petsmart or grocery store as he commented. I appreciate all the feedback sooooo much. Again, I just found the entire conversation strange and I would NEVER use any type of device like that on our little girl. Like I said I can almost understand it for a big dog but even than it just looked horrible to me. But I am a big softie and Trixie is quite spoiled! Hard to Believe Huh!!
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I find it interesting that in Sweden these collars are illegal yet in the US according to my vet you can get them anywhere. (By the way I have yet to see one in any petsmart or grocery store as he commented. I appreciate all the feedback sooooo much. Again, I just found the entire conversation strange and I would NEVER use any type of device like that on our little girl. Like I said I can almost understand it for a big dog but even than it just looked horrible to me. But I am a big softie and Trixie is quite spoiled! Hard to Believe Huh!!
A spoiled basenji…NEVER! :rolleyes:
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We have all kinds of strange laws put by the agricultural department the latest is that you aren´t allowed to crate your dog except when transporting or at dogshows and then only for short periods of time.If you leave your dog alone at home ´someone has to take out the dog for a walk after 6 hrs.
Ok the home alone is a good law but to forbid crating totally hmmmmm…. -
With the Akitas I had, the idea with prong collar was to use a little pressure to indicate you wanted them to do something- like how some people use clickers. You don't really pull hard on it, just a little pressure. But still, I've only used them with large dogs with thick coats. I'd NEVER use them on small dogs like Basenjis.
Well, that is not how clickers are intended to be used. They mark correct behavior, not as a cue for desired behavior. It is a totally different method of training…rewarding the desired behavior instead of correcting the undesirable behavior.
I doubt we want to get into a whole discussion of the value of different types of training...but I don't understand why would you use the prong collar as a cue for a desired behavior; why not just use a command?
The only way I have seen correction collars (prongs and chokes) used is as a correction after a command has been ignored.
And again, I am not totally against prong collars, I think they have some appropriate uses...but only as a correction tool (I have heard them jokingly refered to as a 'hearing aid' for dogs).
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I find it interesting that in Sweden these collars are illegal yet in the US according to my vet you can get them anywhere. (By the way I have yet to see one in any petsmart or grocery store as he commented. I appreciate all the feedback sooooo much. Again, I just found the entire conversation strange and I would NEVER use any type of device like that on our little girl. Like I said I can almost understand it for a big dog but even than it just looked horrible to me. But I am a big softie and Trixie is quite spoiled! Hard to Believe Huh!!
Well, most (all?) of Europe is more governmentally restrictive about what is and isn't appropriate for all types of companion animal care and breeding(except for spay and neuter)…so that doesn't surprise me.
But, yeah, you can definitely find prong collars at pet supplies stores in our area. That is part of the problem with them, is that anybody can buy one and slap it on their dog, and have no idea how to use it correctly. And, then yes, it can be completely ineffective, dangerous, and damaging to the training they are trying to accomplish.
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I doubt we want to get into a whole discussion of the value of different types of training…but I don't understand why would you use the prong collar as a cue for a desired behavior; why not just use a command?
They were show dogs. The owners wanted them to be trained without using verbal commands. I was helping out, I have no idea why they did half the stuff they did. My own Akitas had them at the beginning, but I didn't like them and got rid of them.
But you can get them just about anywhere around here. It sucks, because I see tons of people put them on dogs that shouldn't have them, or just to make the dog look "vicious" and have no idea how you're supposed to use them. I see them on Pitbulls and Rottweilers all the time.
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Again, all collars have their usefullness-even prongs when used correctly. The problem is getting people to use them correctly. I'm sure Andrea would agree-most people have no idea how to fit, or use, them correctly.
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I have to admit, a prong collar on a basenji is out of my comfort zone. (And I'd be looking for a new vet.) I have some nicely titled basenjis and their "training" collars are soft martingales.
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I have to agree with that agilebasenji, prong collars are not for Basenji's that I have ever seen, however, food seems to motivate them much better!
