Pooping in crate!

[DiegosMom]

I got my BRAT foster boy yesterday. He is a tri B and 10 months old. the family that turned him over got him from a pet store. They also crated him 8-10 hours a day, and sometimes at night too.

He a really sweet, good with people and other dogs. He hasnt had one accident in the house, but there is a major problem with crating him.

We have to leave and crate him when we go to work. He was crated for 5 hours and when my DP came home on lunch to let him out he had pooped and peed in his crate. She cleaned up, took him out, and left. When I got home 2 hours later, he had pooped again. and he runs around like a crazy man so he gets the poop everywhere!

He is in a veri kennel now bc thats all i have but i am getting a wire cage. I'm a little afraid to put him in an all wire cage bc then the poop will get outside the cage too.

And I took him for a walk when i got up (5am) and DP took him when she got up at 7:30am. He pooped at 7:30am and she left shortly after that.

What do I do?? How do I stop him from pooping in his crate? Please help!

[ChaseandZahrasmom]

Maybe he is just nervous?

[DiegosMom]

the reason i dont think thats it is because there is evidence he has been pooping in his crate a very long time.

His white fur on his tummy is stained light brown and so are his paws. he had a body harness on when i got him, and when i took it off the part that is on his tummy was crusted with poop. he smelled very bad, i had to give him a bath as soon as i got him home.

so i think this is something that was a problem at his old home also. i just dont know how to break it if he's been doing it for his whole life??

[lvoss]

Do you know what type of crate his former owners used?

If he associates just the vari-kennel with the behavior you may be able to re-train with a wire crate. If it is in all crates, can you set up an x-pen so you can give him an area where he can potty but still be not have to stand in it?

[tanza]

If like you say, he has been doing it for a long time, it will be a struggle, IMO to break him of that habit…. And it certainly sounds like it was a problem at his old home...

I would try lvoss's idea of an xpen instead of a crate and see if that makes a difference...

[Janneke]

I think he's nervous.. 10 months and he has been in a crate for 8-10 hours at his old place? I would be nervous too…

I would try to build up new confidence in crates and in humans putting dogs in crates.. I don't think it's ideal to put a dog in a new situation and than back in a crate again during the day.. (I don't think it's ideal to put a dog in a crate during the day in any situation)
Isn't it possible to get somebody to babysit? And than build up the crate time?

[nomrbddgs]

I'm with Lisa and Pat. Try an x-pen. You may also want to try a litter box if this doesn't work-at least you wouldn't have poop encrusted walls! He sounds like a spinner, which would be why the poop is all over, and he was probably never crate trained properly in the first place.

[Ninabeana26]

You have to remember also that he is a pet store puppy. Pet store pups live in that little cage in the window. They eat, sleep, & POOP inside that tiny little box. Therefore, he probably has only known pooping inside his crate/cage as the correct behavior. I'm sure with how much he was crated in his previous home, they were unable to fix this problem themselves.

When he pooped at 7:30 am with your DP, was it outside? If & when he does poop outside, be sure to reward & praise him A LOT. Make him feel so special for pooping outside, where he is supposed to. I would also try an x-pen if I were you. Good luck & keep us updated on this guy!

[DiegosMom]

To answer some questions- His owners had him in an all wire crate.

I have to keep him in some type of cage/xpen, i don't have anyone who can babysit, all my family and friends work, and i can't afford and i'm sure BRAT cant pay to have a babysitter.

The BRAT coordinator knew i would be crating him, and we thought it would be ok bc the family said he was crate trained.

He does poop outside at night and in the morning, and we reward and praise him.

How could I set up an xpen? I've never used one before. I cant have it on the carpet because of the poop. What do I attach it to so he cant knock it over? Any help with xpen ideas would be great.

[dash]

Sarah, I have an old x-pen if you want to try it. It may be a hike but the kids could play. Of course, Dash did some damage to it. Let me make sure it is usable.

The expen would be my first suggestion since it seems he thinks he is supposed to poop in the crate.

I would also restrict his food and water. All three of the B's in my house were bought from a pet store and they are all crate trained fine. My beagle was a research dog and I didn't start housebreaking her until she was 1 1/2. Actually she still isn't great but much much better.

This is my schedule, I know it seems a little extreme but I do not like cleaning up poop or pee.

3:00 Ern feeds/waters the dogs
3:30 pick up food unless already done
7:00 pick up water
they go out as needed the rest of the evening but no more food or water the rest of the night. 9:00 bedtime. 6:00 get up, put dogs out. When we leave at 7:20 they get a dog biscuit to go in the crate and to distract them from us leaving.
Since we have a 10 mo. old right now we come home and let her out around 11:30. This seems to work well for us. Good luck. I can imagine how stressful it is.

[DiegosMom]

@dash:

Sarah, I have an old x-pen if you want to try it. It may be a hike but the kids could play. Of course, Dash did some damage to it. Let me make sure it is usable.

The expen would be my first suggestion since it seems he thinks he is supposed to poop in the crate.

I would also restrict his food and water. All three of the B's in my house were bought from a pet store and they are all crate trained fine. My beagle was a research dog and I didn't start housebreaking her until she was 1 1/2. Actually she still isn't great but much much better.

This is my schedule, I know it seems a little extreme but I do not like cleaning up poop or pee.

3:00 Ern feeds/waters the dogs
3:30 pick up food unless already done
7:00 pick up water
they go out as needed the rest of the evening but no more food or water the rest of the night. 9:00 bedtime. 6:00 get up, put dogs out. When we leave at 7:20 they get a dog biscuit to go in the crate and to distract them from us leaving.
Since we have a 10 mo. old right now we come home and let her out around 11:30. This seems to work well for us. Good luck. I can imagine how stressful it is.

I'm still not sure i understand how the xpen works? Where do I put it? How do you hold it down? There is no top or bottom right?

Our scedule isnt too much different. They eat at 5/6, i will start feeding them at 4/5 after work. we wake up at 5am and he goes in the cage at 8:30am.

do you feed in morning? i think i'm going to cut the amount of food in the morning.

[tanza]

You can get tops for Xpens (advisable as they are really good at climbing out) and you can do something like putting a tarp under to protect the rug…

As far as morning feeding, most likely cutting back on the amount is a good idea...

[dash]

I do not feed in the morning. They just get a biscuit to go into the crate. My resident 2 aren't crated at all. This is only for the 2 fosters.

The x-pen is like a child play pen. There is no top or bottom but you have little clips to hold it together.

[DiegosMom]

@dash:

I do not feed in the morning. They just get a biscuit to go into the crate. My resident 2 aren't crated at all. This is only for the 2 fosters.

The x-pen is like a child play pen. There is no top or bottom but you have little clips to hold it together.

Can't they knock it over to get out?

[Quercus]

You could also try lining the crate with a BUNCH of newspaper; that might alleviate some of the mess with the pooping.

He could still be really uncomfortable with being in a crate, even though he is habituated to having to do it. It might make him nervous so he gets loose poop, and has to let it out.

Do you have any idea how long he CAN be in a crate before he poops. Does it happen shortly after you leave the house…or several hours later? you might video tape him to see what, if anything, preceds the pooping. If he acts stressed out when he does it, or just kind of matter of fact.

I also like the idea of finding a way to give him more room so if he must poop (or feels he must) he can get away from it...it will start to teach him it is nice to stay clean.

[DiegosMom]

@Quercus:

You could also try lining the crate with a BUNCH of newspaper; that might alleviate some of the mess with the pooping.

He could still be really uncomfortable with being in a crate, even though he is habituated to having to do it. It might make him nervous so he gets loose poop, and has to let it out.

Do you have any idea how long he CAN be in a crate before he poops. Does it happen shortly after you leave the house…or several hours later? you might video tape him to see what, if anything, preceds the pooping. If he acts stressed out when he does it, or just kind of matter of fact.

I also like the idea of finding a way to give him more room so if he must poop (or feels he must) he can get away from it...it will start to teach him it is nice to stay clean.

It seems like he poops shortly after you leave him.. he was crated for about 1.5 hours and he pooped. and when he is left for 4-5 hours, the poop is dried on him.

and i think you are right that he just really doesnt like being crated.

[tanza]

@DiegosMom:

Can't they knock it over to get out?

You have to be creative and figure out a way to make it stable.. again, a top is critical, IMO… and it might require some "redecorating" a wall, corner or something to be able to attach to maybe eye screws in a wall stud.

[Icey]

Sarah , I have a wire crate you can borrow, it's big though…like shepherd size, but I used it when Sultan was a puppy and put a baby gate in the middle of it..it worked...let me know..

[lvoss]

What we do when we have to set up an x-pen where we are not able to stake it down is clip on a top and a bottom. Basically, we just ordered 2 tops and clip one on the bottom and one on top.

[dash]

@DiegosMom:

Can't they knock it over to get out?

Good Point. We had it in the basement so I put it around the pole to hold up the rest of the house. Dash eventually learned to jump on it to get it to lean and then he could squeeze under it. But that took some time