I know this post is old, but its always good to have lots of different answers when researching anything on the forum.
Mine crate together. I have 2 separate crates in case one is sick or in case they start to not get along in the crate together (like I thought would happen when Callie went into season). However, when I first brought Callie home, she was used to being crated with one of her littermates, so she did not like being crated alone. She escaped almost every day & destroyed my blinds (thank goodness that was all!). I started crating her with Lola, and although Lola gets testy when Callie won't settle down quickly, they both do very well crated together when I'm not home & when in the car. I can still crate them separately, but they prefer to be together so they can cuddle together & stay warm. I do always keep in mind though, it could go horribly wrong sometime when I'm not around. Its a calculated risk I take, but thus far it works out well as I have a small car and am forced to crate them together when we go anywhere.
Pooping in crate!
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I'm with Lisa and Pat. Try an x-pen. You may also want to try a litter box if this doesn't work-at least you wouldn't have poop encrusted walls! He sounds like a spinner, which would be why the poop is all over, and he was probably never crate trained properly in the first place.
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You have to remember also that he is a pet store puppy. Pet store pups live in that little cage in the window. They eat, sleep, & POOP inside that tiny little box. Therefore, he probably has only known pooping inside his crate/cage as the correct behavior. I'm sure with how much he was crated in his previous home, they were unable to fix this problem themselves.
When he pooped at 7:30 am with your DP, was it outside? If & when he does poop outside, be sure to reward & praise him A LOT. Make him feel so special for pooping outside, where he is supposed to. I would also try an x-pen if I were you. Good luck & keep us updated on this guy!
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To answer some questions- His owners had him in an all wire crate.
I have to keep him in some type of cage/xpen, i don't have anyone who can babysit, all my family and friends work, and i can't afford and i'm sure BRAT cant pay to have a babysitter.
The BRAT coordinator knew i would be crating him, and we thought it would be ok bc the family said he was crate trained.
He does poop outside at night and in the morning, and we reward and praise him.
How could I set up an xpen? I've never used one before. I cant have it on the carpet because of the poop. What do I attach it to so he cant knock it over? Any help with xpen ideas would be great.
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Sarah, I have an old x-pen if you want to try it. It may be a hike but the kids could play. Of course, Dash did some damage to it. Let me make sure it is usable.
The expen would be my first suggestion since it seems he thinks he is supposed to poop in the crate.
I would also restrict his food and water. All three of the B's in my house were bought from a pet store and they are all crate trained fine. My beagle was a research dog and I didn't start housebreaking her until she was 1 1/2. Actually she still isn't great but much much better.
This is my schedule, I know it seems a little extreme but I do not like cleaning up poop or pee.
3:00 Ern feeds/waters the dogs
3:30 pick up food unless already done
7:00 pick up water
they go out as needed the rest of the evening but no more food or water the rest of the night. 9:00 bedtime. 6:00 get up, put dogs out. When we leave at 7:20 they get a dog biscuit to go in the crate and to distract them from us leaving.
Since we have a 10 mo. old right now we come home and let her out around 11:30. This seems to work well for us. Good luck. I can imagine how stressful it is. -
Sarah, I have an old x-pen if you want to try it. It may be a hike but the kids could play. Of course, Dash did some damage to it. Let me make sure it is usable.
The expen would be my first suggestion since it seems he thinks he is supposed to poop in the crate.
I would also restrict his food and water. All three of the B's in my house were bought from a pet store and they are all crate trained fine. My beagle was a research dog and I didn't start housebreaking her until she was 1 1/2. Actually she still isn't great but much much better.
This is my schedule, I know it seems a little extreme but I do not like cleaning up poop or pee.
3:00 Ern feeds/waters the dogs
3:30 pick up food unless already done
7:00 pick up water
they go out as needed the rest of the evening but no more food or water the rest of the night. 9:00 bedtime. 6:00 get up, put dogs out. When we leave at 7:20 they get a dog biscuit to go in the crate and to distract them from us leaving.
Since we have a 10 mo. old right now we come home and let her out around 11:30. This seems to work well for us. Good luck. I can imagine how stressful it is.I'm still not sure i understand how the xpen works? Where do I put it? How do you hold it down? There is no top or bottom right?
Our scedule isnt too much different. They eat at 5/6, i will start feeding them at 4/5 after work. we wake up at 5am and he goes in the cage at 8:30am.
do you feed in morning? i think i'm going to cut the amount of food in the morning.
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You can get tops for Xpens (advisable as they are really good at climbing out) and you can do something like putting a tarp under to protect the rug…
As far as morning feeding, most likely cutting back on the amount is a good idea...
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I do not feed in the morning. They just get a biscuit to go into the crate. My resident 2 aren't crated at all. This is only for the 2 fosters.
The x-pen is like a child play pen. There is no top or bottom but you have little clips to hold it together.
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I do not feed in the morning. They just get a biscuit to go into the crate. My resident 2 aren't crated at all. This is only for the 2 fosters.
The x-pen is like a child play pen. There is no top or bottom but you have little clips to hold it together.
Can't they knock it over to get out?
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You could also try lining the crate with a BUNCH of newspaper; that might alleviate some of the mess with the pooping.
He could still be really uncomfortable with being in a crate, even though he is habituated to having to do it. It might make him nervous so he gets loose poop, and has to let it out.
Do you have any idea how long he CAN be in a crate before he poops. Does it happen shortly after you leave the house…or several hours later? you might video tape him to see what, if anything, preceds the pooping. If he acts stressed out when he does it, or just kind of matter of fact.
I also like the idea of finding a way to give him more room so if he must poop (or feels he must) he can get away from it...it will start to teach him it is nice to stay clean.
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You could also try lining the crate with a BUNCH of newspaper; that might alleviate some of the mess with the pooping.
He could still be really uncomfortable with being in a crate, even though he is habituated to having to do it. It might make him nervous so he gets loose poop, and has to let it out.
Do you have any idea how long he CAN be in a crate before he poops. Does it happen shortly after you leave the house…or several hours later? you might video tape him to see what, if anything, preceds the pooping. If he acts stressed out when he does it, or just kind of matter of fact.
I also like the idea of finding a way to give him more room so if he must poop (or feels he must) he can get away from it...it will start to teach him it is nice to stay clean.
It seems like he poops shortly after you leave him.. he was crated for about 1.5 hours and he pooped. and when he is left for 4-5 hours, the poop is dried on him.
and i think you are right that he just really doesnt like being crated.
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Can't they knock it over to get out?
You have to be creative and figure out a way to make it stable.. again, a top is critical, IMO… and it might require some "redecorating" a wall, corner or something to be able to attach to maybe eye screws in a wall stud.
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Sarah , I have a wire crate you can borrow, it's big though…like shepherd size, but I used it when Sultan was a puppy and put a baby gate in the middle of it..it worked...let me know..
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What we do when we have to set up an x-pen where we are not able to stake it down is clip on a top and a bottom. Basically, we just ordered 2 tops and clip one on the bottom and one on top.
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Can't they knock it over to get out?
Good Point. We had it in the basement so I put it around the pole to hold up the rest of the house. Dash eventually learned to jump on it to get it to lean and then he could squeeze under it. But that took some time
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Here is a link to Petedge's x-pen top.
They also sell a a x-pen cover that you could use as a bottom so the x-pen isn't open to the floor.
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We have had issues with that at times too. It is usually a spite/nervous behavior. If someone comes in the house when we are not home it tends to happen. We have done two things to help. Strict, strict, strict schedule and multiple short walks. We only feed for 1/2 hr in am and pm, letting out before and about 20 min after both times. Sometimes she goes a whole day without eating much at all. Our vet said that is fine, and that if a dog is hungry enough, they will eat. Sometimes her stomach gets too empty, and she will vomit a little bile, so we do a couple of pieces for food as a bedtime snack. We keep access to water at all times.
We still go through periods where she will do it for three days in a row or so, every couple of months. Haven't really figured that out yet.
How many times per day is he pooping? Have you had a stool sample run, just to rule out any health issues?
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We have had issues with that at times too. It is usually a spite/nervous behavior. If someone comes in the house when we are not home it tends to happen. We have done two things to help. Strict, strict, strict schedule and multiple short walks. We only feed for 1/2 hr in am and pm, letting out before and about 20 min after both times. Sometimes she goes a whole day without eating much at all. Our vet said that is fine, and that if a dog is hungry enough, they will eat. Sometimes her stomach gets too empty, and she will vomit a little bile, so we do a couple of pieces for food as a bedtime snack. We keep access to water at all times.
We still go through periods where she will do it for three days in a row or so, every couple of months. Haven't really figured that out yet.
How many times per day is he pooping? Have you had a stool sample run, just to rule out any health issues?
he is pooping 3-4 times outside and 1-2 times in the crate a day. he will be vetted (including stool) next week.
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What is his feeding schedule and how much is he eating per day?
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And what brand of food are you feeding?
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What is his feeding schedule and how much is he eating per day?
he eats around 7am and 5/6pm.. AM feed is 1/3 cup and PM feed is 3/4 cup. I was doing 3/4 cup each meal because he could probably put on a pound or two(and he is only 10 months), but the BRAT coordinator suggested to decrease the morning feed. And he is on Merricks (mixed with IAMS, transitioning him off IAMS from old owner). She also suggested maybe trying a grain-free food. Anyone think that would help??
The past two days he pooped the first 4/5 hours, but not the second 2/3 hours, so thats some improvement!
