On feeding, when I had multiple dogs I always did the same as Zande, all dogs fed at the same time, although not always the same place. When the weather was nice I sometimes fed outside. But wherever, I sat and supervised until everyone was finished. I had one who would try to poach if not watched, but she knew better than to make a move with me sitting there. Never had a serious fight with any of mine, and never a disagreement over food, but a breeder I know had to permanently separate two bitches who hated each other and would fight instantly if they had the opportunity....the cause of their dislike had nothing to do with food and everything to do with one bitch interfering with the other one's pups.
This B needs an attitude adjustment!
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I agree with Andrea and this sounds like resource guarding. I also would not recommend a squirt bottle because you don't want him to skip the growling and escalate to a bite.
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I read a review of her book here-
http://www.kateconnick.com/library/donaldsonmine.htmlMany readers will be disappointed that she clings so strictly to a behaviorist paradigm. I, for one, do believe that behavior modification can work to varying degrees with resource guarding, especially less serious forms, but I also strongly believe that there are potent genetic tendencies towards this type of behavior that are foolish to ignore. Call it dominance aggression if you like, or call it plain foul temperament, but there are more than a few hardcore resource guarders who will play this kind of training game and learn to accept having the food bowl approached, only to opportunistically assault the owner that attempts to retrieve a fallen potato chip or pool of vomit that they hadn't expected the dog to guard. Many of these dogs really aren't so nice as pets. And many owners, after replacing a dog of this nature with a different pet (often after an ugly experience), marvel at just how different and pleasant life can be with a dog that does not have an inherent drive to aggressively defend coveted items.
In terms of risk and prognosis, Donaldson stresses the importance of bite inhibition and asserts that bite severity cannot be changed. The dog that bites hard will bite hard if and when it actually bites. She does discuss the use of muzzles, tethers, and Kevlar gloves in maintaining safety during behavior modification exercises, and she sensibly suggests management as an often-realistic alternative or adjunct to training. Her own line in the sand relates to bite severity as she asserts, "My personal recommendation is strong management or euthanasia for dogs who inflict deep punctures and contusions."
All in all, Donaldson covers the subject with great care, and I would recommend this book to the owner of a resource guarder. It's very useful to have a small, highly targeted book that discusses a specific behavioral issue, and I'm not aware of any other book that addresses this subject matter in the same kind of detail.
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only to opportunistically assault the owner that attempts to retrieve a fallen potato chip or pool of vomit that they hadn't expected the dog to guard.
This is more of my situation. We can take his food and chewies away and give them back with no problem, but if he gets something he really wants (animal, pizza etc) and he knows he is not allowed to have it, there is no substitution he will except - we have tried food that he usually will not refuse. He wont let anyone near him then.
What would you recommend in these situations?
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Well, honestly the description sounds like the training wasn't completed. The end goal is to be able to call the dog away from anything it is guarding. In that situation, I would want the training to be complete so that if the dog guarded something unexpected, the protocol would be the same…over here dog, and good stuff will happen.
The longer a dog has practiced guarding, without intervention, the harder it is to retrain with any protocol. The idea is to catch it early, and change the way the dog thinks about guarding. If the dog thinks he is trading up anytime he has something he values as good...then he won't feel the need to guard.
I know a lot of people feel this is backward; when a dog growls at you, you must correct it...but the new thinking tells us that these methods just work better.
I agree with a lot of the critique, though....yes, it probably has a genetic component...yes, if a dog starts with little to no bite inhibition, it is unlikely that will change; however you *can make your dog bite harder, by ignoring the initial growl/snap/muzzle punch that leads up to a real bite. It is an escalation the dog uses to get it's message across. And, yes...of course I agree with strong management or euthanasia for dogs who do serious damage to family members. This is not Chance, though. He is trying it out, and using quite a lot of bite inhibition...so now is the perfect time to start the protocol.
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And as I remember, weren't you having these problems a while back with Chance?
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Here is a link to the thread
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=1945 -
Your right I remember that now, so it's been 5 1/2 months and he reverted from the training then?
I wish you guys could go out on "Basenji" call and work with problem owners & dogs (like myself)
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Here is a link to the thread
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=1945I had forgotten about that Pat. Good point. It illustrates that you have to complete any training beyond where the dog stops doing the behavior…but you have to keep up on it, and put a replacement behavior in place.
I would really work on the end result being the ability to call Chance away from his food (and other items guarded). Vanessa, you really will need to buy one of the books, and follow the whole protocol, or find yourself a trainer/behaviorist familiar with the methods in the books I mentioned. You don't want to do this kind of training half-way, because you can end up with the problem only partially fixed. I don't mean that you would intentionally do it half-way...but it can be kind of complicated for people who are new to training.
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Well put Andrea, and even today with my guys at their advance ages, I can still get them from their food if I need to.. (notice I don't say "call" as they are all pretty much deaf..ggg)… and I can still "exchange" for what they have. It is something that never stops.. reinforcement of the proper behavior. And Vanessa, you really need to start asap with thinking about bring another pup into the mix, especially a bitch... as they are what the name suggests!
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It is true that a lot of people stop training once they see the behavior has stopped and do not follow through until the end. The trainer that I go to has stopped offering 8 week, 10 week, 12 week, etc classes because she felt it gave the misleading belief that after a certain period of time a group of behaviors could be mastered rather than conveying that training is an ongoing process.
In the 3 years that I have been taking classes with her, we have had the opportunity to try different methods to work on the same behaviors to help develop reliable behavior. Some things the dogs have picked up much quicker than others and we still find some situations where everything seems to fall apart. The days when my 10 year old suddenly forgets how to sit even though that is one of his default behaviors.
I use trading up in my house and we also have worked with the dogs on Levels method of teaching leave it though we are sort of stuck between Level 2 and 3. Some of that is also that stay is a concept that my basenjis really struggle with and Leave It is related to Stay since both are about self control. We have also done hand feeding with all our dogs which I think has also helped a lot with all of our training endeavors.
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Your absolutely right. A while back Chance exhibited the same behavior and we immediately started to hand feed him and sit next to him while he ate. He slowely turned around…(now this is where I made the mistake) We stopped the training. We thought he was a good pup and all was well. Guess not! Our B outsmarted us again! This time now he is getting more vicious. He never gave me the evil eye. Really, the look is quite scarry. Its not just food though that makes him nasty. I leaned down to take him over to his bed and he about snapped at me.
A HUGE concern though is when we go to put him in his crate. He hates his crate. He knows our routine and right before crate time he runs and hides in the corner. Its quite sad. He will cowl in the corner looking up at us with those big brown eyes giving us every sad look he can give. Lately he growls when we lean down to pick him up. We have tried to "trick" him by making him think he isn't going to the crate but he knows. We have used treats, food and toys to try to lure him in but he is stubborn.Lastly...do you think adding a "bitch" to the mix is such a good idea? Now im really worried!
I will go back to the training and will get the book. We are just so surprised that he is exhibiting this behavior. He has always been so loving and friendly. Is like he has warped into this beast at times! -
I use trading up in my house and we also have worked with the dogs on Levels method of teaching leave it though we are sort of stuck between Level 2 and 3. Some of that is also that stay is a concept that my basenjis really struggle with and Leave It is related to Stay since both are about self control.
When do you think these two commands should begin to be taught to a pup? I already have Dallas learning sit, look, & down but everytime I try leave it or stay he just doesn't comprehend AT ALL. He is only 11 weeks today so is that too young to expect him to even understand these or should I just keep at it?
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When do you think these two commands should begin to be taught to a pup? I already have Dallas learning sit, look, & down but everytime I try leave it or stay he just doesn't comprehend AT ALL. He is only 11 weeks today so is that too young to expect him to even understand these or should I just keep at it?
The leave it command, IMO, should be started immediately, they are never too young to learn… while their attention spam is pretty short... still it should be started right away.
Think of it this way, when your pup "chews" on something that is not appropriate, what do you do? You tell them no and give them something that they can chew on... no different then the "leave it" command...And everyone with a new puppy should be working with their pup as far as being able to take that food away...
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Also the key to any training is being consistent… and not giving in.... If you ask for the leave it command, don't stop till they did it... look for the first sign that they are "getting" the idea and then praise, praise and mor praise. And it doesn't always have to be food motived... again as always IMO...
For Vanessa, I think that the "leash" idea is a great one, then you do not have to try and put your hands on him... you can use the leash and then you don't give him the opportunity to even try to "bite". How much time is Chance spending in a crate? Can you try and xpen instead?
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You can begin immediately with both trading up and Leave It. Anytime your pup is chewing on something you don't want them to chew on, trade them for something they should chew on. Also when they are chewing on those really good things trade them something really yummy for that thing so they learn that you give really good things for them to give you what they already have.
As for Leave It, we just start with a treat in my hand, I make a fist around the treat show them my fist and as soon as they stop nosing, pawing, trying to get the treat and back off, I then say take it and give them the treat. This will progress to them seeing a treat on my open hand and not taking it without permission, to seeing food on a table or on the ground and not taking it without permisssion (this is the place we are stuck at).
For Stay, I have used many different techniques and have found that my dogs "get" 300 hundred peck method best. We start with a sit, click treat, then sit count 1, click treat, sit count 1,2, click treat, and just build time. If they break position what sit, down, stand, whatever you are working on then just go back to the beginning. For pups holding still is really hard so make sure the training sessions are short and they are rewarded with a chance to move at the end.
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The crate is between 7 and 8 hrs a day. Nothing more. In a perfect world we would be able to spend as much time with him as possible but we both work. he gets a good long walk when we get home and lots of attention.
Once we move into our new house next week we will be putting chance in the laundrey room instead of a crate. That way he will have more room to move around.
Allowing him to just rome the house is not an option. His safety comes first and he can't be trusted…not to mention our furniture is too expensive.We have used a leash in the house and he has chewed right through it! It literally took him a minute to chew through a 60 dollar rope which I purchased at Nationals. GGGGRRRRRR. You just can't look away for one minute. They are watching every move you make. Once you turn your head....its free game. Ha!
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Try getting a cheap length of marine cord, and a snap clip at the home depot, or whatever. Soak it in bitter apple...voila
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Crating - get a copy of Susan Garrett's new dvd (or VHS, I guess you can find it in VHS) "Crate Games". Start retraining with a different type of crate (if you've been using plastic, start the crate games with a wire crate. I would not suggest soft crates for obvious reasons)
Have you had his thyroid checked? In order to modify behavoir, you MUST make sure the dog is sound and healty.
Go to dogwise.com and look around for a good book, or two. "Mine" or "Fiesty Fido" come to mind. Also one of Dunbar's books/video address resource guarding, but I don't remember which.
Leave a leash on. Go buy a cheap nylon leash and put something yucky on it - bitter apple, deodorant, vick's vapor rub, palmolive all come to mind. You may need to rub it on every day, maybe twice a day. Do not put the leash on with a corrective collar (ie - choke chain). The problem is, if he bites you and you back off or escalate, you've just made your mountain 10X bigger.
Make sure he's getting enough exercise - physical AND mental. My young dogs (Zpuppy and the malinois) have most of their dinner in a food/puzzle toy. I really like a lot of what's in Control Unleashed. I think, especially if you see behavior problems other than resource guarding, the mat work is great for impulse control. The mat work is based (or is?) on Dr Overall's relaxation protocal. I'm wondering if you will start seeing issues in other areas. And my guess would be overflow behaviors would be related to impulse control. (I wonder if anyone has related resource guarding to impulse control. They seem related in my mind.)
Start teaching him to switch for higher value foods. While you are doing this, don't react if he gets hold of a high value food unless it is toxic to dogs (chocolate and the like). You need to know his hierarchy of values.
If you feel like you are way in over your head, recognize that. It's okay. If you don't feel comfortable learning from books/dvd's. That's okay too. Different people learn differently. Find a good positive trainer to help you out. That's better than wondering around in the dark.
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Lately he growls when we lean down to pick him up. We have tried to "trick" him by making him think he isn't going to the crate but he knows. We have used treats, food and toys to try to lure him in but he is stubborn.
We have learned to make his crate a very positive experience- give him exceptional trwats when he goes to his crate on his own. Also buy some really comfy bedding to make it special, maybe something that already he likes and sleeps on, that has his scent on it. Also do it without locking him in and throw treats in his crate or a chewy that he can sit down and eat in his crate.
We have done this and our one dog jumps her crate all the time expecting another/ treat.
I find "making" a basenji do something he does not want promotes anger and a confrontation. With a treat it makes it positive, they will want to do it for the reward & everyones happy. Now we just use their food instead of treats. Our Tri sometimes refuses unless he gets a really special treat sometimes when being pig headed.
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A HUGE concern though is when we go to put him in his crate. He hates his crate. He knows our routine and right before crate time he runs and hides in the corner. Its quite sad. He will cowl in the corner looking up at us with those big brown eyes giving us every sad look he can give. Lately he growls when we lean down to pick him up. We have tried to "trick" him by making him think he isn't going to the crate but he knows. We have used treats, food and toys to try to lure him in but he is stubborn.
This is also a training issue. I have one who dislikes his crate but he never got to the point of growling when asked to go in his crate. I still haven't had a chance to try "Crate Games" but I do hope to. It is hard to recondition a dog that has already learned a behavior but it can be done. Since you say that in your new house you will be establishing a new routine, now is a good time to get your "game plan" together for how you can establish a positive association with the laundry room of your new house for Chance.
Lastly…do you think adding a "bitch" to the mix is such a good idea? Now im really worried!
I will go back to the training and will get the book. We are just so surprised that he is exhibiting this behavior. He has always been so loving and friendly. Is like he has warped into this beast at times.Whether you add a puppy now or later, you will still need to do training. The difference is if you add a puppy, you will also need to train her.
