@little_t Never apologise. Absolutely no need. Sometimes one can offer advice, sometimes not !
A Basenji, a Volcano & a Clown Car
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@astarte yes please !
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@Zande I spent some time yesterday exploring your pedigrees at www.pedigrees.zandebasenjis.com. That was really interesting to be able to do that. We knew nothing about Jengo's lineage or past when we got him. WE had no idea at all how he spent any of his time prior to us taking him. We were always curious if someone loved him and he escaped? Was he abandoned? Was he passed from place to place? Who bred him and how did he grow up?
Flip to Logan and we get to know everything. We now know his lineage going back generations. My son thought that was amazing, that people keep track of that. His comment was "That's a lot of dogs!" I know where and how he was raised. Who he was raised by and with. In his case he comes from a wonderful home with lots of playmates.
It's also kinda neat that the pedigrees let me see the different kennels that are cooperating with one another to improve their lines. I could see relationships that easily stretch back a several decades. The pictures just bring everything to life too. I still don't know what some of the red TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms) are in some of the titles, but I'm assuming they must reference achievement awards like Champion, etc?
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@jengosmonkey - Mostly the acronyms are either titles and from foreign breedings/showing.
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@zande Done - it's his movement that is extremely impressive - he floats thru the air.
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@jengosmonkey
Here's a link to help decode some of those TLA's, AKC Titles Sorted Alphabetically:
https://www.akc.org/sports/titles-and-abbreviations/akc-titles-sorted-alphabetically/ -
@helle-devi THAT is really helpful! Thanks for that. I was only familiar with a few of those TLAs. When I was a kid my Mom and Dad were Sheltie (Shetland Sheepdog) breeders. I went to shows and training with them, but was much more interested in just playing with them and the pups. Mom focused on confirmation and Dad focused on obedience. The kennel name was Appin, which was the name of a coastal district in Scotland. Anyway, we had this one dog that we all adored. Her name was Bonnie. She was mostly Dad's dog so she was obedience trained, She had CD, CDL, and UD awards.
So the other TLAs that aren't on the AKC list like CRd, PRA -N, PRA- Cr, CLd seem to be disease testing related?
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This is something else I found really fascinating. sometime back, my wife picked up a book from the library that had been withdrawn from their collection: Ford, Elspet – The Complete Basenji / Elspet Ford ISBN 0-87605-016-X
Chapter 10: Breeding Basenjis had a pretty neat paragraph about color combinations. Hopefully Ms. Ford is ok with me sharing the snippet since I’ve given her credit…
(EDIT) I've since learned that Elspet was English and the sweetest lady you'd ever meet. Another passionate fan and champion of the breed. A generous friend and an easy to travel with partner.
“When Breeding for Colour:
RED TO RED will produce an all red litter, unless both animals carry the recessive tricolour gene, in which case one or more tricolour puppies may result. A tricolour in a litter from a red to red mating may come as a complete surprise to a breeder, especially if, on examination of the pedigrees, the only tricolour ancestors are seven or eight generations back.
RED TO TRICOLOUR will result in all reds unless the red parent carries the tri gene as above. A percentage of the resulting red puppies will carry the tri gene.
BLACK TO RED will give reds, blacks, and again, tricolours may appear if the recessive gene is carried by both parents. Black is a dominant colour and must be present in one parent to ensure black progeny. It is also possible that this mating could result in no black offspring.
BLACK TO TRICLOUR will probably result in all three colours again, depending on the genee carried by the black parent.
BLACK TO BLACK – it is possible that this will again result in all three colours, depending on the color of the parents’ ancestors.
TRICLOLOUR TO TRICOLOUR – the puppies are always tricolour. Recessive blacks can turn up in any litter where both parents carry that particular gene.
BRINDLE is a dominant colour and must be present in one parent, but again, it is possible that a brindle will not be produced in the resulting litter. As the Brindle colour is only present in the United States at the moment, the full potential for the colour has still to be investigated and assessed.”
Again, just fascinating. It made me think of two things right away: how important it is to have a picture in the pedigree, and Stella's (Astarte) use of "With Pips" in her names. I'm guessing that anytime I see "With Pips" in a name, I know that dog is a Tri?
The other thing I didn't know was that Brindles are specific to the the US? I thought for sure I'd seen pictures of Brindles in Africa. I'll have to do some hunting.
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@jengosmonkey said in A Basenji, a Volcano & a Clown Car:
anytime I see "With Pips" in a name, I know that dog is a Tri?
Good question! Exactly what does "with Pips" mean?
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@elbrant Pips are the brown eyebrow spots just above the eyes on a tri. At least I think they're only found on a tri.
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@jengosmonkey
"So the other TLAs that aren't on the AKC list like CRd, PRA -N, PRA- Cr, CLd seem to be disease testing related?"
Yes. CRd means "Carrier" vs. CLd is "Cleared" - usually relating to Fanconi in Basenji, but applies to other genetic diseases. (e.g., breeding a CRd with a CRd just about guarantees an afflicted litter)
PRA - N = "Normal" for that PRA test.
There's a whole TLAs list, though much shorter, for the OFA tests. -
@jengosmonkey
Isn't fascinating?!! It's almost like playing roulette!
There's a FB discussion group of Basenji breeders who really get into the actual gene-sequencing of colors if you have the time and interest to explore further.
Waaaay into the weeds, and plenty of TLAs to spare!
Here's a sample: " There are Concentration and Intensity genetics that are thought to interact phaeomelanin. And as for E - there are 3 locus that are known and can be tested for E, e2 (cream in Australian Cattle dog) and e3 (cream in Siberian Huskies)" -
@helle-devi The genetics part of it is tough. And, it seems the more we've learned, the more complicated it seems to have gotten. I told Stella about remembering my Mom; her friends Joan and Bobbie; and their geneticist friend Bob, from UC Davis all pouring through pedigrees. This was way before computers, so it was all paper. Bob had them looking for and highlighting any dogs that had collie eye, which was the problem in Shelties they were trying to solve back then. They were looking for links to individuals and lines. Quite mind numbing. Mom said they learned it showed mostly in Blue Merles, which of course was the color I wanted the most. She refused to breed them. So of course... when I got my bachelor dog, an Aussie/Border Colie mix... he was a Blue Merle. I promptly flew he and I to Colorado so I could show him off to Mom. Show her that I finally had a Blue. :face_with_stuck-out_tongue_closed_eyes: She told me on the spot that Sheltie Blues were fine now and the next two she got were both Blues. Infuriating! :smiling_face_with_open_mouth_smiling_eyes:
Seems to me that it makes sense to team up with other breeders. How can anyone know everything?
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@elbrant Melon pips - the tan over the eyes. Fula-blacks don't have them -
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@jengosmonkey said in A Basenji, a Volcano & a Clown Car:
So the other TLAs that aren't on the AKC list like CRd, PRA -N, PRA- Cr, CLd seem to be disease testing related?
While you are browsing through the pedigrees (which have taken me since 1984 to accumulate (!) have a read too of the explanations.
There is a key to all these if you scroll down on the 'search page'. Health testing is done is several countries - most people around the globe use OFA in USA but DNA testing is also done in Australia by Orivet and in Russia by Zoogen. I make no distinction - clear is clear in any language.
Although just about anything can be tested for and indeed is tested for, I only include PRA and Fanconi - some dogs get crowned in so many sports and countries and the list of titles can stretch a long way across the page. To add innumerable health data too would I feel, make the website less clear.
Titles can be achieved for conformation, coursing, Obedience, Agility, doing tricks, hunting rats - all manner of activities.
But I'm glad you are having fun with it and only wish I could include many of the pet dogs which belong on this Forum. But, strangely, parentage doesn't seem important. . .
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@helle-devi said in A Basenji, a Volcano & a Clown Car:
Yes. CRd means "Carrier" vs. CLd is "Cleared" -
Actually, on my database website, I started using pCL and pCR - in the days before DNA testing - Certificates emphasised PROBABLY clear and PROBABLY carrier. When the direct test came in, I changed the way I entered the data to CRd - carrier by direct test and CLd - clear by direct test. NOT 'cleared'.
This coding, which I devised for the database website but which is used more generally, is all spelled out on the search page - if anyone is interested.
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@zande said in A Basenji, a Volcano & a Clown Car:
While you are browsing through the pedigrees (which have taken me since 1984 to accumulate (!) have a read too of the explanations.
WOW! 36 years is a dog gone good long time. Are Basenji pedigrees cataloged anywhere else? If not, that's quite a service to the community.
There is a key to all these if you scroll down on the 'search page'. Health testing is done is several countries - most people around the globe use OFA in USA but DNA testing is also done in Australia by Orivet and in Russia by Zoogen. I make no distinction - clear is clear in any language.
There was a new member who joined recently from Australia. I just love that the more I've learned the more I've learned how loved they are world wide. Living in a town with mostly Pit Bulls, Chihuahuas, Labradors and Labradoodles I was wondering a bit. Not that those are bad. Just not my thing.
Titles can be achieved for conformation, coursing, Obedience, Agility, doing tricks, hunting rats - all manner of activities.
The achievements were cool to look up. Lot's of activities I never thought would be as organized as they seem to be.
But I'm glad you are having fun with it and only wish I could include many of the pet dogs which belong on this Forum. But, strangely, parentage doesn't seem important. . .
My wife and I have always been curious about Jengo's background. Not that it would have made a bit difference to us. But, we don't have a kennel name or his pedigree name IF he even had one. Funny thing... Animal shelter named him Lester, Karen/Medfly named him V, and we named him Jengo. But, my son had a friend who's name was Max. Anytime Jengo heard the name Max, he would immediately stop, alert and look straight to whoever said it. Maybe? There're 60 Max's in your database. I'd have to narrow it down to about a two or three birth year period and see was left... and , I'd still never know for certain.
Searching through our loaner dog, Logan's is pretty cool. I don't have it completely figured out yet, but I think I'm beginning to see who Astarte's stars were. I'm thinking Odette and Juliette for certain.
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@jengosmonkey said in A Basenji, a Volcano & a Clown Car:
Are Basenji pedigrees cataloged anywhere else?
Not that I am aware of and certainly not so comprehensively.
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@zande - For sure Zande, this is the only place to find all this information. This is so important to breeders and people that search pedigrees and offspring... It is so important that people send this information to be put on this wonderful site!
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So we're still enjoying Logan... a lot. He'll be 2 on Dec 13, so he's still a young guy. For some reason he's chosen me. Follows me anywhere on the property. I get on the couch; so does he. I go out the back door; so does he. I go into a room and close the door; he let's me know he's not happy. I sit down at a table; he plants himself under it till I get up. If my wife or son call him; he seeks my approval before going to them. I didn't do anything special. He just decided on his own. He's also a really affectionate dog. Thinks I'm a popsicle. Or, perhaps he thinks I'm a slob and wants me to be cleaner? He licks me constantly. I redirect him after a few seconds and he always stops. I've never been a fan of disciplining dogs with force. I haven't seen him be destructive at all either in the house or in the backyard. Really good manners.
One thing I still love, that is so foreign is that he will not set foot out the front door until I do. I praise him every time to reinforce this. I still won't open the door unless he's leashed or I have a firm hold on him. His prey drive is off the chart. There's an area in the county park near us that we've named "Logan's Run;" or "Squirrel Hollow." There are ground squirrels a go go there. They chirp when they see us coming and that sends Logan into orbit. Next thing is him reaching the end of the lead and pulling hard, standing up on the split rail fence and then turning to bite the leash. "Lemme Go Stupid Monkey!" This happens split second fast; although I'm always ready now, and he cannot control the urge. So... Mr. Logan will NOT be allowed off leash at all anywhere. Too bad. So sad.
Meanwhile we fixed all the bird feeders in the backyard and filled them with new seed. He get's a kick out of seeing the birds in the yard. He's starting to spend a little more time out there by himself, but usually I have to go out there with him. Like Jengo, Logan doesn't like closed doors. Prior to coming home with us, he's always been with a pack. This is the first time he's been on his own for this long, so we're being sensitive to that. Basketballs really bug him. Hates the sound, but also doesn't like seeing them either. We've brought one in the house and are trying to desensitize him. We don't want to torment him though, so we're going pretty slow.
One thing that he did that I LOVE LOVE LOVE was he exploded one day and started running full speed laps through the house. He accelerates quick, is fast at speed, has great traction and corners really well. Hope he does that again and often.
We've been taking two walks a day, but he and I did a 5 mile hike yesterday. He did really well, but I could tell he was a little tired once we got home. I brought water and snacks for him, tied a wet bandana around his neck and we stopped often. He's a really good walking/hiking partner with good manners... until he sees something he wants to chase. Not a complaint. He's doing what he's suppose to do. It's just really important to keep a good grip on the leash. Even with all the walking/hiking he's managed to pack on an extra .4 pounds.
Logan tunes in to a squirrel chirping from within it's burrow...
Astarte CH Logan's World (Ferrari show dog) all decked out during his hike through the dirt.
He's seen dogs, horses, squirrels, deer, sheep, goats, Blue Herons and lizards. Probably more, but those are what catch and hold his attention...
Taking a break on the trail...
Back at the barn lounging at home while making sure nothing slips by out the front window. A Basenji's day is busy!
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**@jengosmonkey said in A Basenji, a Volcano & a Clown Car
“One thing that he did that I LOVE LOVE LOVE was he exploded one day and started running full speed laps through the house. He accelerates quick, is fast at speed, has great traction and corners really well. Hope he does that again and often.”FYI - it’s called the The Basenji 500!
