@jbuckee how are things now?
Basenji Growling & Aggression
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Thanks, very insightful!
Looks like a happy camper to me… -
Thanks, very insightful!
Looks like a happy camper to me…Yep, sure does! Love that nose to nose with the big guy (gal)
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Has anyone ever used one of the squirty collars? Tone, 2 tones, puff of (odourless, not citron) gas. Butu seemed to be doing very well with it, but it doesn't seem to be very robust…
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My 7 month Basenji is kind of the same way. He fallows me like a shadow and makes sure he is always next to me. He loves my husband too, but im clearly his favorite. Every night, Cairo crawls into bed with me and falls asleep with me until my husband comes in and takes him into his crate. Then, when my husband leaves for work in the morning he lets Cairo back in bed with me. Whenever I am sick, my husband lets him sleep with us because Cairo makes me feel better. Everything has been amazing until Cairo snapped at my husband when trying to put him back in his crate after falling asleep with me 2 nights ago. It was a very very bad growl and bite as if he was a wild fox. I had surgery that night,so I am not sure if Cairo was protecting me or didn't want to be put in his crate because he is too comfortable in bed. Any thoughts?
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I'd guess he is getting tired of being moved from the comfortable bed and wants to stay there. Given his age, this will likely escalate. If you don't want him in bed, don't allow him to be there. And if you want to continue as you have been, spend some time training or leave a short leash on him so you can remove him easily. If he is food motivated you could teach him a cue like "crate time" that means he will get a reward when he goes to his crate.
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I have a lovely 3 year old basenji male that I have had since he was 7 weeks old, he was neutered at the youngest age he could be and we took him through basic obedience training at about 9 months old. A while ago when he was younger he bit me once while trying to give him a bath, he drew quite a bit of blood on that instance. That was prior to training, we used a trainer that is very well known in our area and trains most of the local police dogs, because of his attitude and not seeing me as a dominate person he suggested a prong collar. After that instance he has hardly ever shown severe aggression again… UNTIL NOW! Recently within the past several months (he has slept with us since he was 6 months old) he literally attacks our feet or legs in the middle of the night if we move, in an aggressive manner. He really hasn't been punished for it b/c we just fall back asleep and let it go. Next, let me say first that our B has NEVER shown aggression towards strangers or children, we socialized him from the get go, less then a month ago we stopped by a grooming shop for their grand opening, they were giving free nail trims. I usually do his nails myself and he has never had an issue. The groomer went to just pick him up and he jerked his head around and bit her, drawing blood on her hand. We didn't let that slide, she put a muzzle on him and continued. But it up set us terribly as we just handed him over knowing he has never done anything like that before. Also, last night we tried giving him a bath which he hasn't had a problem with since that one instance, as we were drying him off with towels which he usually likes, he went after our hands to bite us. Again today, I was going to trim his nails myself again like usual, however I tried and he went after my hand again, I couldn't even lift his foot without him snarling at me. I am worried because we truly love our dog more then anything, but this has to stop! PLEASE HELP!
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I can't relate at all or know anything about this kinda aggression, but has there been any sort of change in your B's life? And do you know for certain that he is healthy? I ask that because maybe he doesn't feel good and is protecting himself.
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Has anyone ever used one of the squirty collars? Tone, 2 tones, puff of (odourless, not citron) gas. Butu seemed to be doing very well with it, but it doesn't seem to be very robust…
it may work well with Butu, but there are so many forms of aggression and sometimes positive punishment makes it much worse…..
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well, pertaining to the bed scenario as I can relate one instance when Uzie was in bed with us, the hubby came back from a bathroom trip, and Uzie growled from deep in the chest and got louder as John yelled. I was so stunned, and the only thing I could think of to do as I was half asleep and with instinct flowing, I lifted the covers so he was 'thrown' ONTO THE CARPET….! because it sounded like a bite was about to occur (really scarey!) and he was pushing his envelope to see who was going to win over the resource or to get his way-whatever his mind and bossy adolescence (he was 20months old) attitude was about. It totally never happened again. All winter he was fine in bed with us, no growlies no more! Even though dogs are neutered/spayed the hormones still rage as they become pre-adults. The ages of 12-18 months they will start to see how far they can 'push everyone around' and get their way. The attitude with the nail trimming issues is kinda the same, and hard to give advice on this because there may be pre-existing emotions from you or him as the foot or his body is picked up for the trim/shampoo. You may have read that you have to let the Basenji think it was his/her idea to do IT. Using your imagination, his particular drive (food/toy/praise), and patience, maybe you can come up with something. I know it is heartbreaking when you love them and have done everything possible to form them into the best possible companion, then this happens. Try to ignore him for a few days straight. Close your door at night, let him come 'running' back to you like the prodical son! Just no greetings when you come home, no eye contact, no love sounds, (it ain't going to be easy!!!) no interaction for a few days, even if he jumps next to you on the couch, get up and leave. I learn from watching dogs with dogs. Uzie got real humble with Candi as she gets up from the bed when he lays ON her..... Not withstanding the comment that you should make sure he is not hurting somewhere, and take him for a blood work up to rule out bad behavior with some health issue, thyroid upset is directly associated with some aggressions. http://www.ehow.com/about_5333151_hypothyroidism-aggression-dogs.html
http://itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-BEHV-THYROID.HTM keep us posted! -
Please be sure to have his health reviewed and for certain have A FULL THYROID panel done… Low normal for Basenjis is too low. Thyroid issues can add and/or be the cause of aggression.
Have you talked to his breeder? However, since you took him home at 7 wks, I am not thinking that the breeder is a responsible one.
Sleeping in bed ENDS period... first growl/snap and it is on the floor....
I do not agree with the method of training, Basenjis do not do well with aggressive training methods. I would suggest you find a behaviorist.
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I do not agree with the method of training, Basenjis do not do well with aggressive training methods. I would suggest you find a behaviorist.
Hey Tanza, I respect all your replies, but what "aggressive training method" are you referring to? I agree with getting a behaviorist because they are trained to watch body language in full context in regards to the situation and with regards to the dogs' personality.
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I'm going to weigh in here, knowing that many will not agree, but in my experience Basenjis will "try it on", particularly when they don't want to do something or it makes them uncomfortable. How you react may well have a big influence on their future behaviour. I much prefer to finesse things when I can, but I am not going to make the mistake of letting my dog back me down. You lose respect in their eyes, and it is far harder to regain it once lost. I will take a bite if necessary, and I won't beat up on the dog (any more! when I was younger, it was a different world), but I will restrain him until he quits growling or being aggressive. Submission = release. I don't recommend this approach unless you are confident and won't get rattled. If you are unsure, get professional help or put the dog on a "nothing in life is free" regimen.
I second the idea of getting a medical assessment and particularly the thyroid checked, as that could be the underlying problem.
A lot of problems with dogs (particularly Basenjis!) can be avoided if you are observant. These moments may feel like they "come out of nowhere", but there is usually a context to them. Watch their eyes, A Basenji that is displeased will usually signal his unhappiness by hardening his gaze. It is very noticeable if you are paying attention. To avoid confrontation, you can change your approach. Most are open to cajoling and flattery, but when push comes to shove, you may need to make it crystal clear who is in charge. IMO, no place on your dog's body should be off limits to your touch, but you do need to be sure that what you are doing is not causing pain. (hence a medical assessment).
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@Buddys:
I do not agree with the method of training, Basenjis do not do well with aggressive training methods. I would suggest you find a behaviorist.
Hey Tanza, I respect all your replies, but what "aggressive training method" are you referring to? I agree with getting a behaviorist because they are trained to watch body language in full context in regards to the situation and with regards to the dogs' personality.
Aggressive and using a Prong collar…. that is aggressive and most trainers that train Police dogs.. do NOT use calming training methods or ones that do not use force... Basenjis are NOT police dogs... and should not be considered as one... While this Basenji might be dominate... there are better ways to overcome... and sounds to me like the home has let this boy become the "head of the house"..
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Aggressive and using a Prong collar….
on a 9 month old puppy.
I would suggest some books by Leslie McDivett, Ian Dunbar or Patricia McConnell. All of these author's advocate largely positive training methods.
Also look at Dr Overall's Relaxation Protocol.
http://www.dogdaysnw.com/doc/OverallRelaxationProtocol.pdf -
[QUOTE/]Basenjis are NOT police dogs… and should not be considered as one... While this Basenji might be dominate... there are better ways to overcome... and sounds to me like the home has let this boy become the "head of the house"..
-ok. I know my Basenji is NOT a Police dog, and I NEVER considered him one so please, your post sound a little rude… the guy is very well known in my area and I have taken other breeds of dogs there and they became Canine Good Citizens for our area, so I know this trainer does well, maybe not for a basenji but obviously I did not realize that or I would have never spent the money for the class! I do not agree with "treat" training either, I do not want an obese dog, and not only that but he is not a "gobbler" for treats. YES I've tried a behaviorist as well, a vet that works with dog behaviors. He is completely healthy and has his little physicals on the regular.
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Has he had a full Thyroid panel done? A Vet saying completely health doesn't address a possible thyroid problem… only a full panel will tell you that... and that is the first step.
Sorry if you think that I was rude... but Basenjis are not "other" breeds... and training with treats would not make a dog obese... don't understand why you would thing that?.... and for training, you can replace a meal with treats during training if that is a concern. And if not a "gobbler" for treats, you need to find "special" treats that make him a "gobbler" for treats...
But again... if acting out in the bed with biting/growling... he needs to be kicked out of the bed... period... or any other place that he is trying to claim as his own...
Again, have you talked to his breeder?
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Dear Red Hot Remington,
Tanza is speaking with a lot of truth and experience. The 'prong' should not be used on a Basenji or sight hound, small dog period. Police use it from the school that started from having to train dogs FAST for Vietnam…. The prong and choke is a 'tool' and walking a dog should be a team effort where the dog wants to be at your side from training with respect from both parties (both ends of the leash) not due to intimidation-why do you suppose these tools are not allowed in the CGC test, service dogs, therapy dog test etc..... or pain It is not an instant performance as the walk comes from many hours of relationship 'training'. There are the books as mentioned from agilebasenji- the trainer may be respected in your community because the dogs 'learn' obedience from the prong etc. But he/she should really adjust techniques per the dogs' temperament etc. Not one way always.....ps: she didn't sound rude, please read all with an open mind. and treats given as reward do not make a dog fat. I always break the high value piece into halves-the smaller the piece the faster it is eaten and the more effective the reward. one does not rely on treats for the rest of the dog's life either. Just to make an impact in the early stages of training.....do consider the thyroid panel for ruling out any health problems.
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Okay I have taken a few deep breaths… and now going to weigh in.
That you took her response as rude and jumped into defending the trainer gives me an idea nothing anyone says unless it is in line with what you want to hear is going to get any consideration. So in my best Dr Phil tone... I'd like to ask... how's that working for you so far?
I don't have issues with prong collars and dogs that need something to give you a better handle.. say .. 100 pound plus dogs. But it is a tool, not a general training device, for leash walking. I don't care how many people this person trains dogs for, that doesn't make them good, or a good fit for your dog. Ceasar Milan has a following and he is an abusive dangerous person. Sadly, most people who need trainers do because they don't understand training... so they can't really tell if what is happening is right. I am begging you to read some of the books suggested.
Basenjis are smart. You train punitively, and they will take you on or shut down. You say you don't like treats as you don't want a fat dog... and you can take this as rudely as you like, but that's just utterly silly! You don't give a huge amt of treat! You can give TINY treats, low fat treats, anything and cut back a bit on meals to compensate. If you go with clicker training, you can eventually remove treats and just use the clicker noise. Good training, whether it is your child, dog, goldfish, rabbit, horse or whatever--you get results when you understand what motivates them and USE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE. Most dogs are motivated by food. Be smart, use it.
Get back to basics. Pretend the dog just came. Nothing in life is free is the way to start. No bed, period. Let sleep in a crate in the same room or on floor, but bed is off until all this is solidly taken care of. Some dogs can NEVER have bed privileges because it triggers bad behaviors. I am happy to say so far in my life only one dog fit that for me, but from 18 mos til he died, if he got on the bed, his lip came up.
Get a good basket muzzle and use it for nail clipping if you have to, but also work on retraining. http://www.clickerlessons.com/nails.htm
You said healthy.. but what blood work has been done. As pointed out, thyroid can cause some aggressive behaviors. Hopefully it is fine and what you are seeing is a dog maturing and really testing his limits. How you respond is going to set your life with him. Make this into a matter of domination instead of training and it won't go well. And that, not rudeness, is what folks were trying to say. I hope you step back, start at the beginning and reread in that spirit. It is truly a waste to come for help with folks like Pat who are overflowing with knowledge and experience and ignore them, depending instead on someone who may or may not have a CLUE about this breed and who seemingly imagines that you have to train hard for hard dogs… when the opposite is proved in training all the time. The positive trainer can get any dog to do more and better than the force trainer every single time. I suggest to you that any dog that cannot be trained in a positive way is probably unstable and not pet material. Positive may take a bit longer.. but it works, it works better, it makes your relationship with your dog better.
http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm a good rundown of Nothing in Life is free.
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@red:
I do not agree with "treat" training either, I do not want an obese dog, and not only that but he is not a "gobbler" for treats. YES I've tried a behaviorist as well, a vet that works with dog behaviors. He is completely healthy and has his little physicals on the regular.
What exactly do you know about "treat training"? Operant conditioning, aka "clicker training" in dog circles, is based in science. I've managed to train several basenjis (and other nonbasenjis) using clicker training, 2 master level agility basenjis, Digital the brindlewonderkid had over 30 titles to his name. And as long as I don't overfeed, I don't have fat dogs. (in fact, Digital was often indifferent to food.)
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… but the training at home has been inconsistent.
In your post, this stood out for me. Training HAS to be consistent. Basenjis require lots of patience when training. Stay calm and do try to get together a consistent training routine. For Kipawa and I, training 5 times a day, for no more than 5 minutes at a time works well (it continues to work well for us).
