Housbreaking

[tanza]

@Vintinck:

Well, Maybe we are doing better than I thought.

1. He has never had an accident in his crate. and has slept through the night (~10pm to ~6am) every day since I got him. He doesn't even seem to need to go right when he gets out, he usually prefers to come on the couch with me and squirm around, lick me, stretch, get pet, etc… for 5 mins or so.

2. Debbie, I understand that every time he gets away with it, its a step back. Its so frustrating!

The days when I'm most busy, he will be let out once before I leave at about 7:30. Once by a friend or myself at lunch around 12:30, then again when I get home around 5:30 and 1 or 2 more times depending on what we do that evening and when I go to bed. He has great control or maybe he just has a big bladder (he's big, 12.4 lbs at the vet last week at 11 weeks old). Thats another reason the accidents frustrate me. Its usually an hour or two after he had been out last.

thanks,

Not sure I understand what you mean by "thats another reason the accidents frustrate me"? Just because he is a "big" boy has nothing to do with learning control over their bladder… and I can honestly say with the schedule you have listed above, I am not surprised that he has accidents in the house. Also, I would recommend that in the morning he go directly outside, carry him if you have to... not play/pets/cuddles until he has gone potty. He needs to learn a schedule. My girls are now 1yr 2 months old and it has only just been recently that when they get up in the morning I don't have to hustle them out the door to potty. They finally have the hang of that is the first thing they do in the morning. (and the last thing at night before bed time)…. that they learn a bit faster.;)

[Vintinck]

@Tanza

What a meant about it being frustrating was that if i he has an accident its often within an hour after he's just been outside. Mentioning the fact that he was big was more of a joke, i'm sure it has nothing to do with his bladder control.
The schedule listed is probably worse than reality. The friend that walks him is usually here for 1-2hrs and takes him out right before and right after she leaves. I will take him out twice in the morning often as well.
I really would like to shy away from carrying him out as much as possible (although I have had too a couple times). It would be ideal if I could coax him out on his own, although I know its not always possible.
Good point about not cuddling him in the morning, he just seems so excited and wants to say good morning :). Its probably a good training opportunity to withhold that attention from him until he does his business

@Kipawa

He usually pee's pretty quick, but not always. He takes longer and more sniffing to poop, but I think thats expected. "Go Potty" is what I use, but I am not sure what my friend/dog walker uses, we should probably get on the same page. He is not super food motivated. Sometimes he gobbles up his treats, sometimes he'll smell it and walk away if there is something more interesting. Maybe he is just bored with the kind of treats. I tried to get a new treat brand but he spit it out.

This weather in upstate NY isn't helping. He was just getting used to going outside and could do a walk around the block. Yesterday we got about a foot of snow and 25 degree temperatures. He refused to poop yesterday evening because of it, he would just try to run back inside. After about the 4th trip out that evening he finally caved and went.

[Patty]

I do agree with all that's been said but I do note that you say he is peeing on your couch, throw or blanket - this may be a 'marking' problem raher than especially a housetraining accident. (Yes, puppies will mark as well). Do make sure that you completely remove any lingering pee smells with a commercial product or, my favourite, white vinegar.

[tlish]

the fastest way to potty train is to make sure they are NEVER out of your sight, especially when they are that young. take him directly out first thing in the morning. stay out with him and make sure he goes (give big praise when does). then come back inside, play, eat, etc. as soon as he is done with a bout of playing, a b500, or a meal, take him back out. if he doesn't go right away, just wait and stand there for about 15 min (a reeeeaallly long time to be just standing there, i know). give big praise if he goes, and if he doesn't go, put him directly in his crate, then 1/2 hour to an hour, take him out again. repeat the same procedure. if he goes outside, he gets some freedom in the house, if he doesn't go, he doesn't get freedom. continue to take him out every time after waking from a nap, after finishing up play, and after a meal. stick to the routine, and he will get it. he has a small bladder and needs to go out more than 5-6 times per day.

[DebraDownSouth]

The general rule of thumb is a puppy can hold urine for about 1 hour per MONTH of age. You are expecting too long of a stretch. The issue is that is how long, but they also want to go when they wake up, after eating and playing… Cara has had 3 accidents since I got her at 11 wks old. Three. And all were poops because it was RAINING outside and I didn't go out in the rain and make sure she went. But, I am home, I took her out every couple of hours, then every 3 hours til she was about 4 or 5 mos old so that she fully learned outside is for pottying.

[Vintinck]

I have heard 1 month plus 1 from a lot of sources as well.

Either way, its not an issue of him not being able to hold his bladder that long enough. He never has accidents during those periods. He has never had an accident in his crate. His accidents have been when I am home, after work, from 5:30-10:30. During that times we go out 3-4 times. Thats once every 1-2 hours.

His accidents since we started housebreaking have always been on the couch/on top of a pillow. Its very strange. That was more my concern. I throw what I can in the wash and use Natures miracle on the couch. So I don't think its a scent thing either.

I think the most important piece of advice you guys have given me is to make sure I take him out after every "exciting" activity. I am not sure I have been as good about making sure I take him out after every time he plays. Maybe that will solve the issue. We are working on bell training so hopefully soon he will let me know when he has to go!

[DebraDownSouth]

Okay, then I agree you might want to wonder if it is MARKING, not peeing. LOL, don't you love dogs? But, that does make it easier if he does it only when you are home... leash him to you. Bell training many swear by, but if it is marking, it may not help. You can, however, create a marking post for him outside. Take wet pillow, rub on the post you set up.
Sorry I got confused btw... you did say when you are home but then you put:
<<>> and my mind went to after you left. Old age sucks, btw.
I doubt it will make you feel better, but it can give you a warning. IF this is marking and you don't stop it now, it can be a living heII. My Rottweiler was dubbed "pee king." When he was a pup, I rescued 2 dogs with SEVERE Kennel cough, it went through the house, and then I brought in Angel. Which is to say I bit off more than I could chew.. and then my matriarch, Tasha, got sick--massive cancer--- and was gone in 3 wks time. During those 3 mos, he began and decided marking was his true calling in life.
Nothing and I mean NOTHING stopped him from marking. He wouldn't do it if you were watching, but blink and he would. We tried belly bands (pulled them off), everything. We ended up gating off the dining room, turning it into HIS room and letting him out only with supervision. But it was worse. He marked me. I have had him hit me when I was cleaning out the outside water buckets, at the park, Petsmart, sheep herding, flea markets. I consulted trainers, tried it all. A couple suggested a shock collar but I simply was not willing to go there over something that was not life threatening. But I tell you what, I'd consume bottles of no-doze and watch him every second if I had those 3 mos to live over. Much fun as it gave my friends, it was nothing I'd wish on anyone. He died at the ripe (for Rotties) old age of 12 1/2 last June... and he marked til the end.

[Vintinck]

Uh oh . I was hoping someone was going to say "he's just a puppy so it's definately not marking". I guess thats not the case.

Debbie, how old was the "pee king" when he started? Was he neutered? After reading many posts from other members (yours included) about when to neuter/spay your pet, I have been leaning towards waiting a while (~1 year old or so). If he starts to mark early I fear that letting him go into puberty will just exacerbate the issue, so maybe I should go with the 5-6months that the vet recommended.

He hasn't been doing it that much and it hasn't happened in a couple days so maybe its under control. My breeder feels that vets neuter way to young and that it has an effect on the dogs appearance, making them look more "juvenile". I am more worried about the negative health effects like increased risk of bone cancer, etc..

[tanza]

I have never found that male Basenjis are "prone" to marking, even when you have more then one in the house and even have in-tact bitches. It is just not a behavior that I have seen very often in this breed.

Now, bitches on the other hand, I have seen more bitches marking…. Things like their bedding especially.

[renaultf1]

@tanza:

I have never found that male Basenjis are "prone" to marking, even when you have more then one in the house and even have in-tact bitches. It is just not a behavior that I have seen very often in this breed.

Now, bitches on the other hand, I have seen more bitches marking…. Things like their bedding especially.

I completely agree - even with my lesser basenji experience than Pat. I have 2 bitches and 2 dogs. Both dogs are intact and both bitches are spayed. Both bitches have marked indoors - neither dog has.

[Patty]

I disagree this time with both Pat and Renault1, which is unusual for me, - but I think they're very fortunate in not having had Basenjis that will mark (or perhaps it's a matter of better training).

I have known many Basenjis that will mark and it's often 'catching' in that if one does it the others may follow. It's not usually a bitch thing - although they will mark as well but more often outside.

[Hana]

Vintinck

Our pup is the same age, 3 weeks old and is showing the same level of behavior. We've only had her a week though. We're just getting a feel of how our routine in the day fits with her routine and keep it consistent. We are constantly encouraging her to go out to potty… everything everyone says, first thing ASAP after getting out of crate, after naps, after eating, before bed.... pretty much before and after anything!! LOL When we were having some accidents in the house I even resorted to a kitchen timer to keep reminding ourselves to try again... to get her out to go. She would snif and snif and snif... mosey around. Take a lot of time. More so with poop, more quickly with pee. She doesn't display really any cues either - except the sniffing of the floor.. !! that's the biggest thing. Hard to tell if she's sniffing for food crumbs, but we try just in case anyway. She does NOT like going outside in the dark at night.... at all. She also doesn't care for the cooler morning air... she's a warm weather southern dog... hehehe but the night time has been tougher. We think she is fearful of something despite we're right next to her comforting her. We've carried her out man times repeatedly when she tries to run back in. She eventually goes and I see an improvement over the past bit too. Keep up the great work... have lots of patience. Enjoy your beautiful pup!!

[DebraDownSouth]

@Vintinck:

Debbie, how old was the "pee king" when he started? Was he neutered? After reading many posts from other members (yours included) about when to neuter/spay your pet, I have been leaning towards waiting a while (~1 year old or so). If he starts to mark early I fear that letting him go into puberty will just exacerbate the issue, so maybe I should go with the 5-6months that the vet recommended.

First, if I wanted to be called "Debbie" don't you think I'd have that as either my name or sig? LOL.

He was almost 6 mos old, full testosterone in play by 5 mos in large breeds… and we didn't neuter him as I wasn't sure if going to show and because, well, I see no reason to neuter if you can handle having a male intact dog, which I could. Neutering him after the problem began was really too late. Had I made him my focus on life and stopped it immediately, we'd have been fine. So really, you don't have to live my life, lol. And also, remember he was a 120 pound dog... massive amt of urine in that special tank, lol.

[tanza]

@Hana:

Vintinck

Our pup is the same age, 3 weeks old and is showing the same level of behavior. We've only had her a week though. We're just getting a feel of how our routine in the day fits with her routine and keep it consistent. We are constantly encouraging her to go out to potty… everything everyone says, first thing ASAP after getting out of crate, after naps, after eating, before bed.... pretty much before and after anything!! LOL When we were having some accidents in the house I even resorted to a kitchen timer to keep reminding ourselves to try again... to get her out to go. She would snif and snif and snif... mosey around. Take a lot of time. More so with poop, more quickly with pee. She doesn't display really any cues either - except the sniffing of the floor.. !! that's the biggest thing. Hard to tell if she's sniffing for food crumbs, but we try just in case anyway. She does NOT like going outside in the dark at night.... at all. She also doesn't care for the cooler morning air... she's a warm weather southern dog... hehehe but the night time has been tougher. We think she is fearful of something despite we're right next to her comforting her. We've carried her out man times repeatedly when she tries to run back in. She eventually goes and I see an improvement over the past bit too. Keep up the great work... have lots of patience. Enjoy your beautiful pup!!

I hope you mean 3 months old, not 3 weeks…. And the reason at this age that she doesn't give cues is because she is to young to do so. Remember that only a few short weeks ago, her Mom was cleaning up after her... and her Mom encouraged her (and the littermates) to go by stimulation (licking them)... puppies didn't give cues, they pee and poop due to the stimulation.. and as they got older, they pee/poop when ever/where ever.. Reason that in housetraining it is important to take them out all the time and "before" the urge to go happens.

Do you have lights outside at night? If you can provided an area that is lighted, that would help with any "dark fears"... Also, don't know who your puppy's breeder is, but were her eyes checked by a Vet Ophth before you got her? If not, you might want to have that done just to make sure there are no vision problems. My pups are check by a Vet Ophth Specialist at 9wks before they go to their new homes.

[tanza]

@Patty:

I disagree this time with both Pat and Renault1, which is unusual for me, - but I think they're very fortunate in not having had Basenjis that will mark (or perhaps it's a matter of better training).

I have known many Basenjis that will mark and it's often 'catching' in that if one does it the others may follow. It's not usually a bitch thing - although they will mark as well but more often outside.

LOL, Patty…. To this day, I have never had a male mark the house... one of the things I think is so great about this breed and one of the reason I encourage people to consider male puppies. And even my mentor had the same experience with their males... they just didn't mark. But the bitches... different story. And as to stories, when I sent Crystal home with Ann over 10yrs ago, within 2 days she tried to "raise" herself on the ladder above their 10yr old son by marking his bed.... When Ann called the first time and was laughing, I told her, not a laughing matter, Crystal was "marking"... She didn't believe me... after 4 days in a row Ann called and said "OK, I'm a believer!"... and Crystal was not permitted in Stephen's room for quite a long time.

[Vintinck]

Debra*

Sorry about the "Debbie" thing. I didn't even notice I did it!

Malu seems to be doing better. I have been taking him out every 1.5-2 hrs when I am home. He always pee's, at least a little, when I take him out. Especially if he wants to go back inside because of the cold weather. The added benefit for me is that I get that many more opportunities to have him use the bell. I think this should help his bell training catch on even faster!

He actually rang the bell late last night. I am not sure if it was just a coincidence, but I took him out and he pee'd and pooped. I'm not anywhere near the point of relying on him to use the bell but I hope its catching on!

Regarding neutering. I guess I'll have to discuss it with my vet. Its a difficult decision because one really doesn't know if it was a good idea for an early spay/neuter until its too late. I'd like to think that I can handle keeping him intact longer but who knows, I've never had an intact dog.

[Patty]

It sounds as though he is getting much better. It is obviously going to take a little time.

[Hana]

@tanza:

I hope you mean 3 months old, not 3 weeks…. And the reason at this age that she doesn't give cues is because she is to young to do so. Remember that only a few short weeks ago, her Mom was cleaning up after her... and her Mom encouraged her (and the littermates) to go by stimulation (licking them)... puppies didn't give cues, they pee and poop due to the stimulation.. and as they got older, they pee/poop when ever/where ever.. Reason that in housetraining it is important to take them out all the time and "before" the urge to go happens.

Do you have lights outside at night? If you can provided an area that is lighted, that would help with any "dark fears"... Also, don't know who your puppy's breeder is, but were her eyes checked by a Vet Ophth before you got her? If not, you might want to have that done just to make sure there are no vision problems. My pups are check by a Vet Ophth Specialist at 9wks before they go to their new homes.

Tanza - whoops that was a big typo! In my head I combined '3 months with 13 weeks' and came out as '3 weeks.' ! That would be silly.

Yes, she did go to a ophthalmologist vet specialist at 8 weeks old, I have her report, but frankly not sure what all the notes mean precisely but see no notes for trouble issues. I'll be taking this with me to her first vet visit here where I live vs. the state that she came from.

As for potty training, big leaps! More than a few times now, she's been sitting at the door just patiently and casually looking through the glass in the door… we open it up and get her out ... success. I bought the wrong kind of bell for the handle so that's been useless. Need something longer. We're just happy that she's putting the idea of sit by door = go outside. Accidents have gone way way way down with diligence. Unless my hubby is getting up in the night without me knowing... she seems to go from midnight or 1am through til 6:15am EXACTLY every morning, which is more hours than I thought she could handle, but seems to be handling it well (in her crate.) The clockwork let me out whimper whine is to the minute... is amazing. I don't need an alarm anymore. She's so happy and tail waggy but I just keep herding her over to the door as speedy as possible.

[tanza]

Hana: Sounds like you turned the corner… ggg... and if you are not seeing any notes on the eye test, then I am sure she is just fine. By the way, I carry mine out at that age... I don't give them the chance to stop while herding to the door.... and that has always worked for me.

[DebraDownSouth]

YEAH!!! Glad things are improving.