Wonderful place to let doggies run free. I can almost feel the sunshine there.
He's Arriving On Saturday!
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I agree diff_eqs…
Let's think about this...
Labrador and Poodle...
two dogs with PRA and HD....
and breeding them together is supposed to make them healthier?
I think NOT!and a Puggle...
Beagle and Pug...
can we say Cherry Eye, Entropian Eye, and Dry Eye?
Issues galore with those eyes!I'll stick with my Bs
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I agree diff_eqs…
Let's think about this...
Labrador and Poodle...
two dogs with PRA and HD....
and breeding them together is supposed to make them healthier?
I think NOT!and a Puggle...
Beagle and Pug...
can we say Cherry Eye, Entropian Eye, and Dry Eye?
Issues galore with those eyes!I'll stick with my Bs
Plus add in the health concerns of each breed, in addition to the ones that are common to both and you have a real made for disaster
And if you go to the parent clubs of these breeds, you can see what they have to say about so called "designer" dogs…
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There are a lot of well-meaning people on this forum who have a tendency to voice opinions ….firmly and can be a bit brusque and/or argumentative about it, whether in regard to breeders, feeding, training, lifestyle, etc.
It takes some getting used to, and frankly is why I seldom visit the forum any more. It gets old, even when not directed at me. I just want to scream sometimes, "Give him a break! Not everyone shares your OPINION!!!". So, to eliminate that frustration from my life,
I just avoid the forum now for the most part. Too little conversation/discussion, too much opinion stated as fact, too many judgments made on those who disagree.
I can see where newbies would bolt and run. I know I nearly did... a few times. Now I'm not so much bolting and running, but sighing and walking away quietly with an occasional swing through to see if anything new or exciting is happening. -
I can see where newbies would bolt and run. I know I nearly did… a few times. Now I'm not so much bolting and running, but sighing and walking away quietly with an occasional swing through to see if anything new or exciting is happening.
and that would be the reason that I no longer refer my puppy buyers to the site.
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I agree diff_eqs…
Let's think about this...
Labrador and Poodle...
two dogs with PRA and HD....
and breeding them together is supposed to make them healthier?
I think NOT!and a Puggle...
Beagle and Pug...
can we say Cherry Eye, Entropian Eye, and Dry Eye?
Issues galore with those eyes!I'll stick with my Bs
Kathy? this was your post about mixes? And you are no less critical about people going to BYB's then the rest of us. And I still maintain that if we talk one person out of going and supporting a BYB/Puppymill breeder, we have educated someone. And there is more then just one person here that listened to the advise and went to a responsible breeder. As they say, sometimes the truth is a hard pill to swallow.
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There are a lot of well-meaning people on this forum who have a tendency to voice opinions ….firmly and can be a bit brusque and/or argumentative about it, whether in regard to breeders, feeding, training, lifestyle, etc.
It takes some getting used to, and frankly is why I seldom visit the forum any more. It gets old, even when not directed at me. I just want to scream sometimes, "Give him a break! Not everyone shares your OPINION!!!". So, to eliminate that frustration from my life,
I just avoid the forum now for the most part. Too little conversation/discussion, too much opinion stated as fact, too many judgments made on those who disagree.
I can see where newbies would bolt and run. I know I nearly did... a few times. Now I'm not so much bolting and running, but sighing and walking away quietly with an occasional swing through to see if anything new or exciting is happening.I second this, I haven't been on much in the last several months for the very same reason and this post reminded me again of why I haven't been coming around. I have a Puggle, I can see many people's points as to what is wrong with a designer dog, etc. but you know what, he was my first dog and has been the sweetest little guy ever. EVERY BREED has issues, but it seems sometimes that you can't just say something nice on this forum many have to come back with an attack. Education is fine, I whole heartdly agree but my Puggle is a member of my family at this point and it is hard to see someone say that a breed that you have or your furchild is "Stupid".
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To me, those "designer breeders" are on even a worse level as a PM. Not only they breed a bunch of mixes on purpose, and mislead the people who just want a cute pet, the "designer dogs," espeically toys and laps usually cost 2 to 3 times more than purebred of either breed. Where's the logic in that? I am not trying to make anyone upset (sorry ChaseandZahrasmom), but I just don't get it….
What does PM mean?
No offense taken.
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I believe PM is "puppy mill".
Thanks! I was having a brain freeze on that … seems so simple now, LOL!
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rescued my pup, wouldn't have it any other way
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I second this, I haven't been on much in the last several months for the very same reason and this post reminded me again of why I haven't been coming around. I have a Puggle, I can see many people's points as to what is wrong with a designer dog, etc. but you know what, he was my first dog and has been the sweetest little guy ever. EVERY BREED has issues, but it seems sometimes that you can't just say something nice on this forum many have to come back with an attack. Education is fine, I whole heartdly agree but my Puggle is a member of my family at this point and it is hard to see someone say that a breed that you have or your furchild is "Stupid".
We also have to understand that we don't even go these lengths within our own species (at least the majority of parents). Lots of people have children even though they are aware of "genetic defects", yet they still find a way to love them. You have to find a balance between perfection and enjoyment. Obviously Fanconi is a big concern, I will not downplay that, but other things that are not life threatening can be managed. We do it with ourselves (no one here is perfectly healthy) and find a way to live our lives.
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We also have to understand that we don't even go these lengths within our own species (at least the majority of parents). Lots of people have children even though they are aware of "genetic defects", yet they still find a way to love them. You have to find a balance between perfection and enjoyment. Obviously Fanconi is a big concern, I will not downplay that, but other things that are not life threatening can be managed. We do it with ourselves (no one here is perfectly healthy) and find a way to live our lives.
I thought about the same thing the other day. For example, my uncle has a rare form of muscular dystrophy that kind of reminds me of fanconi in the way it is passed. After we learned more about it, most of us were tested. To use the same kind of terms, there are those of us that are clear of it, some that are carriers, and of course, my uncle is affected. I'm a carrier, as are a lot of my aunts and cousins (we have a very big family). As horrible as the disease is, the smart thing to do would be to test our SOs to see if they are clear/carrier/affected before we have children, but that probably won't happen and it will be left up to chance. There are many other genetic diseases and defects that can probably be avoided if we were as discerning in our choice of mates as we are in our pets' mates/lineage. As Kananga said, I'm not downplaying the seriousness of fanconi, and I'm certainly happy that my best friend is clear and healthy, and when I decide to get another dog, I will make sure he/she has been tested and that the parents have had all the health tests that are available. It's just that sometimes things like this strike me as odd. Just one of those random things that popped in my mind during a long drive.
Anyway, I also dislike the idea of "designer dogs". But hey, the shelters are full of them, some even more designer than others, they don't cost nearly as much, and are already spayed or neutered. There's a German Labterrier, Yorkichipoo, Labrachow, and all kinds of combinations. You could make up your own new name for a breed.
As for the puggle, I've only met one. A good friend just adopted a puggle puppy, and he is the sweetest little boy. AND he can keep up with Cody in the stamina department, at least for a little while.
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Almost every Ashkenazi couple I know have themselves tested for Tay Sachs before deciding to have kids.
It's too horrible to live through to take the chance.
I can't have kids, but if we were to choose IVF later on, my husband and I would definitely have ourselves screened first.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay-Sachs_disease#Screening_success_with_Ashkenazi_Jews
-Nicole
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I have a Puggle, I can see many people's points as to what is wrong with a designer dog, etc. but you know what, he was my first dog and has been the sweetest little guy ever.
…hard to see someone say that a breed that you have or your furchild is "Stupid".
ChaseandZahrasmom, I by no means tried to offend you or call your dog "stupid." I've been on this forum too, where people have, let's say, expressed their dislike of the fact that I was getting a puppy from a puppy mill, and I know not to criticize other dogs. For one thing, it's never the dog's fault for being what he/she is. Another thing is, if you love him, and he loves you, and he has a happy and healthy life, I wouldn't want it any other way. I just disapprove of people who try to make LOADS of money on mixes and oftentimes they promote nothing but problems in health and personality of those mixes just because their parents are so different in nature.
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if we were to choose IVF later on, my husband and I would definitely have ourselves screened first.
I second that!
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Almost every Ashkenazi couple I know have themselves tested for Tay Sachs before deciding to have kids.
It's too horrible to live through to take the chance.
I can't have kids, but if we were to choose IVF later on, my husband and I would definitely have ourselves screened first.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay-Sachs_disease#Screening_success_with_Ashkenazi_Jews
-Nicole
I remember reading about that, but I could not remember the name. Like I said, that is the smart thing to do. Unfortunately, my family seems to be ruled by their hearts more than their heads. I decided a long time ago to adopt children.
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I am happy I found this forum and took the advice of Pat and some other knowledgeable folks on this site, otherwise I wouldn't have found my lovely and perfect Manah dog from Khani's. And I am so looking forward to getting my new puppy Uzza (Manah's niece) in a couple weeks!!!!
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I am happy I found this forum and took the advice of Pat and some other knowledgeable folks on this site, otherwise I wouldn't have found my lovely and perfect Manah dog from Khani's. And I am so looking forward to getting my new puppy Uzza (Manah's niece) in a couple weeks!!!!
How cool is that… can't wait to see pictures...
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I am happy I found this forum and took the advice of Pat and some other knowledgeable folks on this site, otherwise I wouldn't have found my lovely and perfect Manah dog from Khani's. And I am so looking forward to getting my new puppy Uzza (Manah's niece) in a couple weeks!!!!
That's great news.
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We also have to understand that we don't even go these lengths within our own species (at least the majority of parents). Lots of people have children even though they are aware of "genetic defects", yet they still find a way to love them. You have to find a balance between perfection and enjoyment. Obviously Fanconi is a big concern, I will not downplay that, but other things that are not life threatening can be managed. We do it with ourselves (no one here is perfectly healthy) and find a way to live our lives.
What a very interesting analogy between humans and our beloved Basenji's.
Many of us here love our dogs at least as much as others love their human children. The extent to which we go to protect and love our pets would appear to know no bounds in many cases. We fight for their health and admonish others to do the same with a great passion as can be seen on many of the forum topics such as this one. A pure breed basenji with all bad traits carefully and selectively removed. It is for the greater good, to keep the line pure without defect.
Now lets flip this to the human side.
A little man called Adolf Hitler also had a passion for a pure Aryan race. Breeding for blue eyed blond haired white boys and girls. In practice this would most likely produce a superior human in many physical respects. Not allowing inferior races with genetic defects to breed or interbreed would insure the survival and dominance of this race. Imagine how fit and healthy this race would be. No heart conditions to shorten their lives in fact no conditions at all just healthy long living humans.
So what was so wrong about this seemingly logical goal that the rest of the world came to war and millions died. The problem was???well the rest of the world. You may have noticed the we are mostly NOT of the Aryan race. Sucks to be us in an Aryan world.What is my point??.well I do not have a point really just an interesting observation. I love the B?s and testing for diseases and defects is a must but who draws the line at where we stop. I only like the reds so all others should be banned (not really).Who says we are cruel to extend the life of our dogs if they are badly injured or sick and in pain yet these same people say a human in the same position must not have the choice but must suffer to the last. The world is made up of lines and everyone must make their own decision where that line is drawn. The problems occur when your line crosses mine or the other way around. It is not where the line is drawn that causes the problem but how we react to that line which is not where we would like to see it.
