@yodelma Yes, the information about the flu coming in from imported dogs was alarming. What struck me was that the dogs (in question) were properly vetted and quarantined - and they still missed it. Perhaps the receiving vets weren't informed from the sending vets (beware: potential flu carriers)...
Cat Declawing Ban Spreads Through Calif.
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I'm not against animal rights…to a point. At some juncture, though, people in elected office need to butt out of the minutia of individuals' lives. This discussion rolls back to the issue of spay/neuter.
I'll say it again...declawing a cat is a barbaric practice that I don't agree with. I will debate until I'm blue in the face with someone considering this mutilation. I think it needs to stop with the veterinarians. Vets need to educate the pet owners about this and maybe even take a stand on it.
But where do we stop writing laws? Will sheep herders still be allowed to dock tails and castrate lambs by use of a hunting knife and their teeth? Will owners of dogs be allowed to remove dew claws, dock tails and crop ears, all done purely for cosmetic reasons? Where does it stop? It's the government intrusion I disagree with.
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I agree with Vicki people do all kinds of things …dock tails, castrate, debark, crop ears, cutting dew claws, declawing.
Most of these things I do not agree with, some I do. Although if a person wants to declaw it should be their business. I'm very pro choice and open minded person.When I was in high school a friend of mine had two cats both declawed. The reason behind it. His family had a large house with a nice size back yard and they did not want the cats climbing up the fence and tree's just to escape from the yard, get hit by a car, lost, wander the neighborhood or get killed by a wild animal. They would spend the day in the yard and sleep indoors at night. These cats were loved and healthy.
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I am a very open minded person and do not like the "nanny state" that we find ourselves living in - but everyone must agree there are limits. So you say that a practice is barbaric, but if someone "wants" to do it, they can?
Michael Vick - carried out practices which were barbaric (and beyond) which were against the law, but presumably he "wanted" to do it - does that mean we should all be ok with that?
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There is a huge difference between performing a surgical procedure under anesthetic and forcing dogs to fight each other, often to the death.
I have said before…I think declawing is barbaric. If you want a pet without claws, don't get a cat. That said, however, making it a crime to possess a declawed cat hits the wrong end of the chain. There are many procedures that are banned. But why hit the individual who owns the animal?
With banned human procedures, it is the doctors who get in trouble. Reference Dr. Kevorkian. Patients wanted a "procedure," he supplied it and he got into trouble. I can think of several more human procedures that are rightfully banned, but no need to get gross here.
Once again, though, where does it all stop? How is the law written? Does it, in fact, ban the removal of claws from any animal? A lot of us would be in trouble with that one…considering it is almost universal practice for dog breeders to remove dewclaws, which is an unnecessary amputation done without anesthetic and purely for cosmetics.
Tails are docked, again, without anesthetic, on days-old pups. Why? The ACD that lived with me had his tail intact. He used it for counterbalance when he was running. And it was the most endearing thing for him to sit looking up at me with just the end of his tail wagging on the floor.
I don't agree with mutilating animals. But I also don't agree with government interference in every aspect of individuals' lives. It has to stop somewhere.
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I think in the Uk it is illegal now to dock Dogs tails, crop their ears, de claw Cats. I dont think vets are too keen to remove dew claws anymore either.I dont think much of the government but I personaly think these particular laws are good as they protect the animal.
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I think in the Uk it is illegal now to dock Dogs tails, crop their ears, de claw Cats. I dont think vets are too keen to remove dew claws anymore either.I dont think much of the government but I personaly think these particular laws are good as they protect the animal.
In the Netherlands it's also not allowed to dock tails, crop ears and remove dew claws from young pups without any medical reason. I believe you can't even show your docked/cropped dog if you get it from the US or anywhere else where it is allowed.
And declawing cats?!? I had never even heard of that! And our cats also walk loose outside.. Fight etc… To me it feels the same as debarking a dog, which is also too crazy for words.. If you can't handle a cats' nails.. Don't get a cat... (although as a vet it would probably be nice to know the cat has lost 4 out of his 5 weapons ;))
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Mind you i may commit murder of a Cat tonight. For the last two nights we have had a Tom Cat sneaking in our Cat door and upsetting our Cats. He has upset me as well, it is a horrible way to be woken up to hear Cats screaming at the top of their voices. The worrying thing is i think its the same cat that caused Jerrys facial wound. We may seal the cat door tonight although it will upset our two as they like to come and go.
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Better they be upset than have an unknown animal possibly bringing in fleas, worms, who knows what and fighting with your cats.
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Yes i think you're right. We will have to batten down the hatches
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@AJs:
There is a huge difference between performing a surgical procedure under anesthetic and forcing dogs to fight each other, often to the death.
I have said before…I think declawing is barbaric. If you want a pet without claws, don't get a cat. That said, however, making it a crime to possess a declawed cat hits the wrong end of the chain. There are many procedures that are banned. But why hit the individual who owns the animal?
With banned human procedures, it is the doctors who get in trouble. Reference Dr. Kevorkian. Patients wanted a "procedure," he supplied it and he got into trouble. I can think of several more human procedures that are rightfully banned, but no need to get gross here.
Once again, though, where does it all stop? How is the law written? Does it, in fact, ban the removal of claws from any animal? A lot of us would be in trouble with that one…considering it is almost universal practice for dog breeders to remove dewclaws, which is an unnecessary amputation done without anesthetic and purely for cosmetics.
Tails are docked, again, without anesthetic, on days-old pups. Why? The ACD that lived with me had his tail intact. He used it for counterbalance when he was running. And it was the most endearing thing for him to sit looking up at me with just the end of his tail wagging on the floor.
I don't agree with mutilating animals. But I also don't agree with government interference in every aspect of individuals' lives. It has to stop somewhere.
Oooops slightly OT, but I just couldnt help myself…
:):):):):):)
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I'm happy to accommodate proper usage and language. (even if we are straying a little.)
(Australian Cattle Dog…someone from over yonder corrected me on that one...don't remember who.)
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@AJs:
Better they be upset than have an unknown animal possibly bringing in fleas, worms, who knows what and fighting with your cats.
Do you have FIV and Feline Leukemia in England?
Edit: oops, I had meant to quote Shelley there.
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Nicole,
yes we do have both diseases here. Years ago i lost a beautiful White Kitten to Feline Leukemia.
Had a terrible night, i sealed the cat door up and our cats weren't pleased, Jerry woke me 4 times scratching at our bedroom door to wake me. Im shattered -
This IS a touchy subject; another topic on which there will be disagreement.
I ALWAYS declaw my cats. Always. Although we keep them indoors, they do on occasion get out. My cats have always been very able to defend themselves against other cats, dogs, skunks or anything else they've encountered, and we live next to a forest…there has never been an issue or an instance in which our cats were ever unable to defend themselves. They can still climb trees.
I have yet to see a cat in any way acting as it it were in any way hindered by a declaw procedure - they are jumping up and on and off of furniture,etc the same day, with no appearance of discomfort as there is in case of injury.
I'm not going to get into a debate about this, except to say.... seriously, when people state opinions they need to be aware that not everyone shares your opinion nor has everyone had the same experiences, and not everyone believes everything they read esp. when it runs contrary to actual experience.
I think we have enough REAL forms of abuse to address with laws, and am always reluctant to let the government enter the homes of citizens.
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I ALWAYS declaw my cats. Always. Although we keep them indoors, they do on occasion get out. My cats have always been very able to defend themselves against other cats, dogs, skunks or anything else they've encountered, and we live next to a forest…there has never been an issue or an instance in which our cats were ever unable to defend themselves. They can still climb trees.
experience.YEARS ago, we had a lab puppy who encountered a cat. The cat thwaped her upside the head and she came running back to us. We later learned the cat had be declawed. Silly puppy.
I feel declawing and debarking should be last resorts, after training, etc have been tried, but I also realize that that won't apply to many people. Is it better to have to rehome (possibly euthanize) a pet? I don't have cats. I have lived next door to dogs I wish had been debarked. Of course, bringing them in and making those dogs part of their family would have been better. :mad:
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There was a guy from (insert your favorite Marxist country here) who went to his government to request internet access.
His government official asked him, "Don't you have conversations with your friends on the street?"
He said, "I cannot disagree."
The official asked, "Don't you have free access to the government library?"
He replied, "I cannot disagree."
"Well," said the official, "Don't you get the state newspaper every day?"
He replied again, "I cannot disagree."
"So, why," asked the official, "do you want internet access?"
"Aha!" responded the guy, "There, I can disagree."It's the beauty of the thing.
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Great quote AJshuman - brilliant.
But - and i cannot accept this as just a cultural difference from across the pond - that debarking a dog is acceptable in ANY instance. Just because someone wants something doesnt mean they should have it - a dog is a living breathing animal - if you dont have the facility and ability to own one - then dont - get a toy, or take up another hobby.
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Have to agree with you Scott on this one
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This IS a touchy subject; another topic on which there will be disagreement.
I ALWAYS declaw my cats. Always. Although we keep them indoors, they do on occasion get out. My cats have always been very able to defend themselves against other cats, dogs, skunks or anything else they've encountered, and we live next to a forest…there has never been an issue or an instance in which our cats were ever unable to defend themselves. They can still climb trees.
I have yet to see a cat in any way acting as it it were in any way hindered by a declaw procedure - they are jumping up and on and off of furniture,etc the same day, with no appearance of discomfort as there is in case of injury.
I'm not going to get into a debate about this, except to say.... seriously, when people state opinions they need to be aware that not everyone shares your opinion nor has everyone had the same experiences, and not everyone believes everything they read esp. when it runs contrary to actual experience.
I think we have enough REAL forms of abuse to address with laws, and am always reluctant to let the government enter the homes of citizens.
I agree with you Jazzysmom. I worked in a vet clinic for several years and we did hundreds of declaws. It is not barbaric and the procedure has improved over the years. As long as it is done young. I don't think it should be done on a cat that is older. It is not in any way comparable to dog fighting. The animals are asleep and do fine afterwards. There will always be horror stories but some of these cats would have been given up due to their destruction of furniture or other things. Currently I have 2 cats both rescued in their older days so they still have their claws but my old boy that died a couple of years ago was declawed and it was very nice to cuddle without being scratched. It is a personal opinion and as long as it is legal it should stay that way. And for those that do not like government intervention, make a decision you can't have it both ways, you either want them interfering or you don't.
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I realy hate to argue and i realy think opinion is so divided that people will have to agree to dissagree. I dont want to cause offence but must say that IMO most cats scratch to communicate there is a problem and they are unhappy. I can pet our cats without fear of being scratched. My neighbours cat however who is in our house more often than not is the type who will lash out and scratch. When stroking her we watch out for the signs. I know some cats are feisty , some scratch, some bite but we cant remove their teeth.
As for de barking Dogs (something i have only just become aware of on the forum) why on earth would anyone want to do this.
Maybe my views are idealistic but i do believe animals should be left as nature intended if at all possible
