Male Basenji around newly-born puppies

[Basenjimamma]

Congratulations Rodrigo..what a surprise to come home to. Glad it all worked out. WIll you keep any of them? Do you have potential buyers for the puppies?

[Rita Jean]

Been long time but Ivoss I do so go with you. Puppies need to hear indoor sounds and be held and loved. Nothing wrong when they are older going out for a while to learn outdoor sounds. However I am willing to bet at least one if not more go were it is cold and they cannot stay outdoors. That means they need indoor life from a baby so they do not end up in a dump or kill shelter beause the new owner could not handle the puppy because it did not like house sounds. I wish you the best good luck but for the puppies please keep them in the house.

Rita Jean

[Rodrigo]

I had no idea there was as database with pedigree information on Basenjis. This is great to know.

Fezzan's pedigree does appear there. It says: "Pedigree of Fezzan Vorobieva, Brindle & White, Male, Mexico, 23 Dec 2007."

Mara's pedigree is not listed. Looking at her international pedigree certificate, she is registered as "Iman (Sanchez) Mex. FCI., Mexico, 28 Dec 2008." Any idea as to why her pedigree would not be listed in this website?

I did not get fanconi testing on the parents; I did not even know such test existed.

I do not plan on keeping them. I will need to start looking for potential buyers, but I think it's going to be tough finding them a good home. Basenjis are not well known in Mexico.

[lvoss]

Her pedigree would not be there if no one submitted her litter information to the site owner.

If you provide the sire's name and dam's name, I can submit her information to Sally to be included in the next upload.

[Rodrigo]

Thank you Ivoss. I appreciate it.

Sire: Siscos Durham in My Past (Brindle & White)
Dam: Kenya (Sanchez) MEX.FCI. (Red & White)

I also have information on two more generations (backwards), in case it's useful.

Mara's color is red & white, and her registered name is Iman (Sanchez) Mex.FCI. She was born in Mexico, the 28th of December, 2008.

[DebraDownSouth]

Please read up on responsible breeding, place those puppies on spay/neuter contracts, and spay and neuter your pets. If you aren't knowledgeable enough to know about pedigrees, health testing and genetics, please don't breed. You seem like you love the dogs, so do the right thing for the breed.

[Chealsie508]

…and get them tested, read up on Fanconi and if you have questions don't be afraid to ask them... people may not be happy that you haven't fanconi tested the parents because the puppies could become affected as well; it is a horrible thing but we would rather you ask the questions now than not at all. And by "all"- I mean both your two dogs and ALL the puppies need to be tested..please..please and please again

[lvoss]

@Rodrigo:

Sire: Siscos Durham in My Past (Brindle & White)
Dam: Kenya (Sanchez) MEX.FCI. (Red & White)

Could you please send me the parents of both of these dogs. They are not in the database so I need their info so I can get them added.

Thank you.

[Rodrigo]

Thank you for your suggestions. I will have them all, parents and puppies, tested for fanconi. I am to speak with my Vet on Monday.
If any of the puppies has the syndrome, I will spay it immediately. If any of the parents has the syndrome, it will get spayed too, as it makes sense to stop breeding a dog that will carry on a genetic problem to its offspring and thus affecting the Basenji breed generally. If both parents are healthy, I won't spay them.
Regards.

[Rodrigo]

Sure Ivoss,

As for Siscos Durham in My Past, its Sire's name is "Eldorado's Oliver" (color brindle & white), and its Dam's name is "Visit-to-Sisco of Africa" (color red & white).

As for Kenya (Sanchez) Mex.FCI., its Sire's name is "Rabat (Sanchez) Mex.FCI." (color red & white) and its Dam's name is "Turquish (Sanchez) Mex.FCI." (color red & white).

As for Eldorado's Oliver, its Sire's name is "Eldorado's Adonis" (color brindle & white), and its Dam's name is "Eldorado's Hocus Pocus" (color brindle & white).

As for Visit-to-Sisco of Africa, its Sire's name is "Luther King Out of Africa" (no info on color), and its Dam's name is "Ofna Out of Africa" (no info on color).

As for Rabat (Sanchez) Mex.FCI., its Sire's name is "Andy (Gil) Mex.FCI." (tricolor), and its Dam's name is "Shenna (Recio) Mex." (color red & white).

As for Turquish (Sanchez) Mex.FCI., its Sire's name is "Batato Pan Mofisan (Arce) Mex.FCI." (color red & white), and its Dam's name is "Gambia (Sanchez) Mex.FCI., (tricolor).

Thank you again for all your help.

Rodrigo

[lvoss]

@Rodrigo:

Thank you for your suggestions. I will have them all, parents and puppies, tested for fanconi. I am to speak with my Vet on Monday.
If any of the puppies has the syndrome, I will spay it immediately. If any of the parents has the syndrome, it will get spayed too, as it makes sense to stop breeding a dog that will carry on a genetic problem to its offspring and thus affecting the Basenji breed generally. If both parents are healthy, I won't spay them.
Regards.

You vet probably won't have the information. You need to go to the OFA website and order the test.

http://www.offa.org/dnatesting/fanconi.html

[khanis]

We will just agree to disagree.
As I previously mentioned… I know that it would be next to impossible for anyone to come to my home and decipher which dogs were whelped/raised for part of their lives OUTSIDE in lovely warm weather.
All are incredibly socialized and have impeccable temperaments.

Sorry you have to be ripped apart like a common backyard breeder.
You have dogs with good breeding behind them... you can email me at any time for any information.
I have also placed Basenjis in Mexico and they have had fabulous lives with their lovely gardens!

[curlytails]

Rodrigo, a belated welcome to the forum.

Just wanted to say kudos to you for taking this "grilling" about your breeding in stride.

What's done is done, and while a lot of us here are very critical about irresponsible and casual breeding, please understand that we are all, I think, driven by a love for the breed and for dogs in general.

You seem quite willing to do right by these dogs and the futures of these puppies, and I encourage you to stay connected with this forum as there is a lot of good information and a solid network here. I'm honestly not sure what or who is available to you in Mexico, but it's certainly not too far away or isolated with the help of the internet!

[YodelDogs]

@khanis:

Sorry you have to be ripped apart like a common backyard breeder.

I re-read this thread and I did not see a single post "ripping apart" the breeder. I saw advice being given and that's what this forum is for.

You have dogs with good breeding behind them…

Having dogs with good breeding behind them doesn't change the fact that the parents were bred together with zero health testing. The breeder had never even heard of Fanconi syndrome until they posted here. In America, we call that a "backyard breeder". In any country, it is irresponsible breeding.

The majority of backyard breeders, or BYBs as they are sometimes called, are not bad people. They are people whose knowledge about breeding doesn't go past their own backyard. With gentle guidance, most people who want to continue breeding dogs are willing to learn how to breed responsibly. I think it is obvious that the OP (original poster) wants to do the right thing and staying on this forum is a great way for them to learn.

[DebraDownSouth]

@khanis:

Sorry you have to be ripped apart like a common backyard breeder.
You have dogs with good breeding behind them…

Common back yard breeder:
has a pet (or breeding pair, gag)
limited knowledge about genetics and testing
no knowledge of pedigrees and thinks having any champions anywhere in the pedigree (champion bloodlines is how both BYB and puppymillers advertise such dogs who have ANY champions in last 4 generations) makes the dog worthy of breeding
little to no health testing

Sorry but this person, nice or not, is a common backyard breeder and frankly, quite a BIT less knowledgeable than most byb today. ONE HOUR on the internet reading and this person would have found both BCOA and health issues. This person either didn't GIVE A DAMN to research or is so utterly knowledgeable that he didn't even KNOW to try to read up on health issues. He seems to want to do right, but in this day and age, it is negligent that he didn't already read some basics on his own. If he has the ability to find this forum to ADVERTISE his puppies, he certainly could have found info before breeding.

No one RIPPED this person. No one was harsh. But yes, this person is a backyard breeder. And considering the facts presented, I think everyone here was very nice because it really does seem this person is open to learning and doing things right.

As for your outside raised dogs… glad you lucked out. Won't bother to show you studies indicating yours is not the norm. Perhaps the puppies owners spent massive time with them, which obviously compensates for them being outside. This person couldn't even be there for the whelping, for crying out loud. Your encouraging a novice owner to keep them outside when they truly need all the socializing they can get to compensate for lack of experience... well I find that a little alarming. I appreciate you think your dogs came out fine, but you probably got a pup from experienced owners who truly DID go the extra mile to make sure outside raised dogs got enough attention.