Is eating Science Diet better than not eating at all?
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I know you all get sick of me posting this, but this is a great place where it is critical.
With Fanconi, you must follow protocol to protect your dog. PLEASE ask your vet to give you cyproheptadine. It is nothing short of a miracle for boosting appetite. And write Dr Gonto, at: Outdoc@aol.com or look on that link for his phone and call.
I do agree that homemade is wonderful, but you have options, especially with cypro to help get the food you choose EATEN.
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Debra, as lvoss says, Michelle has been working with Dr. Gonto for years (since Tayda starting spilling) to get her stable…. and she has always followed the protocol.
There are other appetite stimulants and exploring them could be an option. I would not recommend satin balls, as they are really a "short" term solution used by handlers and as noted, all meat...so high protein and high fat quality meat at that. -
I know you all get sick of me posting this, but this is a great place where it is critical.
With Fanconi, you must follow protocol to protect your dog. PLEASE ask your vet to give you cyproheptadine. It is nothing short of a miracle for boosting appetite. And write Dr Gonto, at: Outdoc@aol.com or look on that link for his phone and call.
I do agree that homemade is wonderful, but you have options, especially with cypro to help get the food you choose EATEN.
Thanks for your concern… I have been working with Dr. Gonto about Tayda's condition for years now. She has Fanconi, but she is also in a stage of renal insufficiency - she has elevated BUN and Creatitine levels which is why she now needs low protein instead of high protein. She is basically transitioning into the hybrid section of the protocol for dogs with renal failure.
I'll be looking into making homemade food for her. I know dogs can hold out for food when they decide they don't want something anymore - and I've tried the "tough love" approach where I put the food down for 15 minutes and then pick it up... but at this point I just cant stand to see her lose more weight. She still jumps in circles for pasta....though.... she loves that stuff. lol.
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Tayda's mom… I don't have any advice about Tayda's diet, but you are obviously a very caring person to take the time to research and find the right course of Tayda... it must be hard making all of these decisions, hoping that each one is the "right" one.
In defense of pasta.... it is low protein, high carb.... so maybe the whole wheat stuff? Or whole grain rice.... just not oreos, potato chips, lol. :)
How old is your girl?
P.S. Knowing that this regime is necessitated because of Fanconi syndrome, I truly appreciate the passion behind people's posts here, where they insist on Fanconi screening for breeders. :(
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I think there is a difference in "tough love" and treating a dog that is ill…. Tough love is for the dogs that are healthy...
Michelle, you are doing all the right things.... I know how difficult it is with a sick or elder dog and wanting them to eat... especially ones with renal failure.. as the renal failure makes them sick to their tummy, therefore they don't want to eat....
Just curious, could she be dehydrated, even just a little? Maybe SubQ fluids a couple times a week would help? I know with Maggii, when she was in renal failure, the fluids were a God sent... kept her going for almost two years....
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Thanks for your concern… I have been working with Dr. Gonto about Tayda's condition for years now.
I'll be looking into making homemade food for her. I know dogs can hold out for food when they decide they don't want something anymore - and I've tried the "tough love" approach where I put the food down for 15 minutes and then pick it up... but at this point I just cant stand to see her lose more weight. She still jumps in circles for pasta....though.... she loves that stuff. lol.
Sorry I think you thought my emphasis was on Gonto/protocol. My "sick of hearing it" was about cyproheptadine. Because no matter what diet you choose, it is incredible for increasing appetite. I too tried the "tough love" and Sayblee got literally to where her ribs stood out. We ran every medical test.. she simply didn't care no matter what you fed her to eat enough not to be gaunt.
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I am going to stick my neck out and say if she will eat the Sci Diet, feed it to her. As long as it is within the parameters of how much protein she should be getting, and it doesn't mess up her other levels. If you haven't already, check with Dr. Gonto…I would be interested to see what he thinks about this...whether the quality of the food is more important than getting the food in. Some dogs do absolutely great on Sci Di, or Iams, or Euk, or even Dog Chow...just like some people can live their whole, long lives on Big Macs. Her situation is unique, and I would feel exactly like you do, that I want her to have a few extra pounds.
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Thanks everyone - this is hard and I just want to do what is right for Tayda. Tayda just turned 8 years old. She was diagnosed when she was 6.
Quercus - that is exactly what I thought - my husband and I were talking about this in the store and we compared feeding her SD to us eating Taco Bell everyday. Certainly not GOOD for you but if you are starving, will you turn it down because it's not top quality food? I wouldn't. I plan to look into making food for her… right now seems like it will be labor and time intensive, but I'm sure it's like anything, once you get the hang of it it's not so bad. I spend quite a while everyday trying to get her to eat the food, and to keep Lenny from eating her food (he will swoop down on it at any chance)... I suppose I could use that same amount of time making the food if it will make her eat it right away.
Debra, as for the cyproheptadine, I will ask my vet about it. I'm already having to give her about 20 pills a day, and she is not always great at takin them. She goes through phases, and right now she is resisting the pills. So, I'm hesitant to add any more. But I will ask her about it. (the vet, not Tayda, ha ha)
It is possible she could be a little dehydrated right now. For the last 10 days we've been on a cross country road trip (we moved from CA back to CT!) and they have been crated in the car while we were traveling. We of course stopped for breaks and such, and there is a bowl of water in the crate for them, but they tend to not drink much when they are crated. Now that we are here, and she is back to drinking all that she wants, maybe it will get better? I hope so.
Speaking of protein content - right on the bag of the Science Diet - it lists the "minimum" protein content as 16%. Which is great for Tayda - I've been trying to keep her under 20%. But then I look at the Science diet website and it lists the "average" protein content as 22%. UGH! So which is it?
http://www.hillspet.com/products/sd-canine-adult-healthy-mobility-dry.html
Average vs. minimum? What kind of spread do they have with these protein contents? I have an email into Science Diet about this.
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Didn't know that you moved back to CT… but I would say that since you have been traveling, I would really wonder if with the stress of traveling (even when they are used to it) and with Fanconi, I would think that she might be dehydrated.... and as my Vet always told me, increase of water intact will not solve the problem. I would talk to the Vet about doing some SubQ for her and see if that helps... In the end it can't hurt...
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Fortunately the cypro is a tiny pill :) And hey, if it makes her HUNGRY it will make tricking her to eat other pills hidden in food easier :)
I hope I never am where you are, my heart goes out to you. As for Hills, I have fed their diet formula when necessary. Are they on my top 20 dog foods? No. But absolutely better than nothing and better than most general one.
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I have an appointment for Tayda's next set of bloodwork next monday so fingers crossed it goes well. I will ask about the cypro and the sub q fluids then… I heard back from Dr. Gonto and here is what he thought:
1. About the Science Diet: Let me put this plain and simple. Have you any idea how many dogs live on Science Diet? ZILLIONS. Any clue to how many SHOW DOGS eat the stuff? LOTS. Honest. Believe me, when I tell you that there are a MILLION levels of "quality" below Science Diet. At least that stuff is created with some SERIOUS veterinary nutritional experts running the controls and advising on the components. Not true with many "fru fru" brand "designer" diets at ten times the price.
2. About cutting high protein food w/ rice/pasta: NO…it really does not work that way. You may THINK you are "cutting" it half way, but the dog food is DENSE. The pasta and rice is NOT. You would need to do this by WEIGHT and DENSITY and I assure you, the amount of balanced dog food would be HUGELY cut, relative to the rice and pasta. NO WAY is that a good idea. I would FAR rather you feed the science diet...which, again, MILLIONS of dogs live on and which VETS approve of
3. He also had a few choice words about the dogfoodanalysis.com website. He basically thinks it's a bunch of bunk - that these foods with really high protein amounts will fry a dogs kidneys… and that grain is present in wild dogs' diets via the contents of the stomach of the animals they are eating.
I'm sure there will be lots of differing opinions about that site and perhaps what he had to say about Science Diet.... but I thought I'd pass on what he sent me since I'm sure people were wondering.
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Yeah, I feel the same way.
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I agree with Andrea, if Tayda will eat it and loves it, feed it to her! I had many years of healthy dogs on Purina One, back before "high quality" foods were readily available, moved up to eliminate the yellow dye that was staining their teeth. Most of us, I dare say, don't eat as 'purely' as our dogs do! For a picky eater, go with what the dog likes.
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Well, I had already pretty much said what he said about Hills, but we will agree to disagree on the rest. Lots of research by actual vets and veterinary nutritionists (which he is neither) doesn't support his general nutrition stance. He is the expert on Fanconi! But nutrition in general.. not so much.
I am just glad you have support and hope we soon hear your beloved dog is gaining weight.
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Well so much for the Science Diet - I just got off the phone w/ customer service because I noticed that the label on the bag says minimum protein content 16%, but their website lists "average protein content 22%". The guy told me that the food does not conform to what is on the label - that they are only minimums required by AAFCO and the information on the label does not indicate what is inside the bag. He said "the food in the bag conforms to what the website says - which is 22%."
I have actually checked the webiste information for all of the foods that I get at the store and this is the only one that I've ever found a descrepancy with.
UGH! Maybe that's not a big deal to a lot of people but it is a big damn deal to little Tayda and her kidneys!
Grrrrr…..
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On the K9Kitchen group that I am on, someone mentioned that they have had to switch their dog with renal insufficiency to Natural Balance Vegetarian formula. They use both the canned and dry.
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/Vegetarian.html#Guaranteed
It has 18% protein.
