@elbrant thanks!
For Sale: Basenji pups For Sale in Nampa ID
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YES! Like this was!!:
Okay let me try again, whether you meant old as age or old as time on forum, your post was as mean and snarky as those you seem to be against. You took no effort to write a constructive non-attacking post. Until you do so yourself, the hypocrisy of your post clouds any weight to it, making it obvious that in your opinion, YOU can post however harshly and snarkily as you want and it is educational. If someone else does, it is nasty. You can't have it both ways. So how about you posting in the way you think OTHERS should and set an example. Because to me, your post exemplified what you were ranting against. In fact, to me your post was WORSE than most. Most posts are about TOPICS, and however hotly debated, are not personal attacks. Your post, undeniably, was personal against people.
Another thought is that just because many agree about something, it doesn't make them some rabid pack. This thread is a great example. There are legit reasons that breeders and rescues have issues with what is being done.
As for the CL listing, I am sorry that Patty let them stop her. Unless the forum moderator contacts her, she should do what she wants. Even there, many of us supported her. It was basically a division between breeders/nonbreeders. However, both sides have legit concerns. Topics like that should be addressed by the moderator since it wasn't BREED related by forum policy related, imo. Patty, I hope you take the supporters of you, those who understand and appreciate your intent, more to heart than the others. (((hugs)))
After a while, it seems as its best to fight fire with fire.
Im sure everyone here thinks Ima big weenie and should grow up , but I just dont see the point in some of the forum contributers being so "snarky"
I too didnt agree with the posts about the CL listings, as I personally contacted the ad owners and offered my help in rehoming their dogs on behalf of BRAT.
Patty- you can email them to me if you feel the need to. With all the other websites I cruise, CL sometimes is the bottom of my list. Thanks for your hard work
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After a while, it seems as its best to fight fire with fire.
Im sure everyone here thinks Ima big weenie and should grow up , but I just dont see the point in some of the forum contributers being so "snarky"
I too didnt agree with the posts about the CL listings, as I personally contacted the ad owners and offered my help in rehoming their dogs on behalf of BRAT.
Patty- you can email them to me if you feel the need to. With all the other websites I cruise, CL sometimes is the bottom of my list. Thanks for your hard work
Poster child here for fire with fire, but I don't lecture about fire when using it. That said, lol, you see how well it works for me… don't go there
Shame us snarkers by not being snarky.I usually don't see posts as snarky. Perhaps because I have a tougher skin, perhaps because I have been on forums that make this look like an afternoon swim with the dolphins, perhaps because I try to look at precisely what is SAID and not tone when I can. But we can agree not being nasty or personal should be the norm.
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Poster child here for fire with fire, but I don't lecture about fire when using it. That said, lol, you see how well it works for me… don't go there
Shame us snarkers by not being snarky.I usually don't see posts as snarky. Perhaps because I have a tougher skin, perhaps because I have been on forums that make this look like an afternoon swim with the dolphins, perhaps because I try to look at precisely what is SAID and not tone when I can. But we can agree not being nasty or personal should be the norm.
I will try to look at content instead of tone from now on. maybe Im just too sensitive. I of course, would prefer a perfect world where everyone gets along….. sigh....
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Interesting that this posting is about Avuvis - I understood from Manou who I believe is an acknowledged expert on Avuvis that they were not Basenjis but very different and distinct breed.
She came over to Crufts one year and stood beside me near the Basenji ringside discussing the two breeds and categorically stated that Avuvis are different from Basenjis.
I am now confused and perhaps somebody could enlighten me as we don't have Avuvis in the UK.
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The senior b was just one to pop in my mind. Isn't it better for someone to try to rehome their dog on CL than to take the dog to a shelter or euthanize it? Why is it acceptable for breeders to rehome their older dogs after they are finished using them in their breeding program but it's not acceptable for someone to rehome their pet? I don't understand the reasoning.
I know of no responsible breeder trying to place a sick geriatric dog. And we'll have to disagree… I think better to hold this dog while euthanizing than place in rescue. Of course, BEST, is to be humane and keep this dog safe til it dies.
As for breeders, let me try to explain since I am not a basenji breeder and not in the fray. When you breed, hopefully you are dedicated to improving the breed. This is even more important with a breed with limited numbers. Ideally, I really think you should not have to breed a bitch more than twice to get something that is BETTER than the bitch. Ideally, after 2 or 3 litters, you have something that you move on to, retiring the dam from producing. Regardless of when, people have limited space. To me, taking a dog you are no longer using in a breeding program and finding it a great pet home where it can get the most one-on-one attention not only allows a breeder to have the space and ability to continue breeding, but it is the best possible thing for that dog. Breeders aren't breeding pets to sell puppies, they are dedicated to breeding to advance the breed. Mentally it really is a different place than just pet homes.
Both as a rescuer and a breeder, I rarely think my home is the only or best home. There have been precisely 2 exceptions... Sayblee and the Chow/coyote. Few homes would have been good for either. My back-up homes should something happen to me folks prayed for my health nightly til both were gone. Not another dog I have owned could not have thrived happily and maybe better in another home.
I know several breeders who are not able to breed every year, sometimes only every 3 yrs, due to lack of homes for their rare breed dogs because they refuse to have more dogs in their home than they can give pet-loving quality care to. I know others who simply start crating and packing in the numbers in the belief that the welfare of their dogs come second to their idea that they are producing something so wonderful with that next litter that the welfare of older dogs is 2nd. I'll leave out my views on that but am sure you can guess.
But that belief in there being a maximum number you can personally care for as loved pets as opposed to livestock, well it is a boon because it has kept me from keeping dogs I bred, that did not fit my breeding goals but wanted to keep, and dogs I fostered when I was at my limit.
So, I applaud those breeders who get those dogs into loving pet homes. It really is a good thing and it really is not related to someone dumping a pet because it is no longer convenient.
And that is not to say there aren't legit reasons to rehome! Heck, we just helped a lady who had to move, could not take the dogs, and she contacted BRAT. She didn't dump in shelter or sell to highest bidder, she did the right thing. I have a friend who placed her 2 basenji when her husband died. Her job was on the road most of the week and keeping them would have been horrible on them. She cried buckets, but she placed them… losing both her husband and beloved dogs. So if I have ever sounded like I don't think there is a time and place, there is.
OH, yeah and I placed a cat rescue once. My husband brought it home. I called it "the lump." Don't ask, suffice to say the thought of living with "the lump" for 18 yrs had me in tears. I found it a home where it would be loved, not resented.
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Interesting that this posting is about Avuvis - I understood from Manou who I believe is an acknowledged expert on Avuvis that they were not Basenjis but very different and distinct breed.
You are right that term Avuvi is used to describe a breed of African dog that is separate from Basenjis. There are several people including Manu that have Avuvi dogs and do not claim that these dogs are Basenjis but are a related breed with some similar traits but some distinct differences. Then there is a group of people in the US that imported dogs that they at first termed Avuvis and at first did not claim they were basenjis though they did not claim they were not basenjis. Later an organized import effort was made and the importers decided that they would like to see recognition of their "avuvis" as basenjis.
There is still much controversy in the basenji community about whether these dogs are their own distinct breed or if they are basenjis. As of right now, none have been put through the approval process outlined by BCOA and approved by AKC to be recognized as basenjis.
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Lisa, but doesn't the one person that we all know call them basenjis, when she sells them?
So that is why this thread is called basenjis needing homes in Id…. -
That is correct.
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–-> Debra, that was a great post, thank you! It helps me understand your passion about rescues.... you are so right that people will look at some pups and see livestock, while others just see wagging tails.
And since I'm not a breeder, I googled Avuvis to see what I could find. I'm not endorsing this person, but here is a blog site about basenjis. There are several you tube videos from Africa with basenjis in them that I look forward to watching tonight.
http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2010/04/basenjis-diamonds-and-magic-meat.html
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Ohhh boy… I was intending to bring up T-man's Basenji-related posts in the "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" thread, because some of what he says dovetails with what I think Harrison is saying in her blog posts/articles, particularly about the supposed commonality of Basenjis on their native continent... except T-man is much more polemic about his position and his use of data and argument style is so infuriating, I didn't know where to start.
But it's 5 AM where I'm at and my brain's already half-rotten from paper writing, so I'll have to come back to this later when I'm more level-headed. (He's definitely provocative, that's for sure, moreso in his other Basenji posts.)
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LOL, sometimes you know that the mental state of a person is such that you are spitting in the wind to try to converse… such is blowhard-knowitall Terrierman. Not worth reading.
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You are right that term Avuvi is used to describe a breed of African dog that is separate from Basenjis. There are several people including Manu that have Avuvi dogs and do not claim that these dogs are Basenjis but are a related breed with some similar traits but some distinct differences. Then there is a group of people in the US that imported dogs that they at first termed Avuvis and at first did not claim they were basenjis though they did not claim they were not basenjis. Later an organized import effort was made and the importers decided that they would like to see recognition of their "avuvis" as basenjis.
There is still much controversy in the basenji community about whether these dogs are their own distinct breed or if they are basenjis. As of right now, none have been put through the approval process outlined by BCOA and approved by AKC to be recognized as basenjis.
I don't know anything about the Avuvis, but I googled them and found some pics.. and I have to say.. some of them look Basenji enough to me.. am I wrong? What about, for example, Avuvi Afonhaan?
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"Extra" 3 dogs? Was this litter planned at all with a list of perspective buyers? It makes my heart sink to hear these little lives considered "extra", which to me comes across as "unintended" or considered "throw aways". -
I am confused, are they or are they not basenjis?…Some of them look the part but others don't...and even on Avuvi 2009 facebook page ( i.e Rose Marie H), it states that they are pretending to be basenjis...? well if they are basenjis why "pretend" to be like them..
Maybe I am having a serious blond moment..I have been known to have those..:) -
I don't know anything about the Avuvis, but I googled them and found some pics.. and I have to say.. some of them look Basenji enough to me.. am I wrong? What about, for example, Avuvi Afonhaan?
Avuvi Afonhaan (aka Honey) was one out of that group that if she had been submitted for the stud books through the BCOA process, she more then likely would have been accepted. However that was never done by her owner. Remember all, not only do they need to be of Basenji Type, but need to have good temperaments, health testing, etc. So there was obviously some reason that this little bitch was never put up though BCOA to be judged and voted to be admitted to the stud books.
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Avuvi Afonhaan (aka Honey) was one out of that group that if she had been submitted for the stud books through the BCOA process, she more then likely would have been accepted. However that was never done by her owner. Remember all, not only do they need to be of Basenji Type, but need to have good temperaments, health testing, etc. So there was obviously some reason that this little bitch was never put up though BCOA to be judged and voted to be admitted to the stud books.
Thank you for answering
I hope any African import that's Basenji enough (and ok healthwise etc) will be submitted, it would be an asset to the breed..
An extra question: would it be possible to admit her pups to the stud books?
Btw.. even if BCOA closes the stud books (which they shouldn't..), there are other countries where stud books are open
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I disagree, they should be closed after a period of time, IMO. And I disagree that any AF import, even of Basenji type should be accepted particularly if they do not have good temperatments. Breeders worked really hard on the temperament of Basenjis and many years ago most every judge in the show ring was very leary of even approaching them….
But you are correct, other countries could open their books, however I have yet to see anyone try and do so.... Then again, most of the imports are in the US
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I disagree, they should be closed after a period of time, IMO. And I disagree that any AF import, even of Basenji type should be accepted particularly if they do not have good temperatments. Breeders worked really hard on the temperament of Basenjis and many years ago most every judge in the show ring was very leary of even approaching them….
But you are correct, other countries could open their books, however I have yet to see anyone try and do so.... Then again, most of the imports are in the US
I believe breeding in a completely closed population will cause problems in the long run.. And I agree that not every AF import should be accepted. That's why I said "any African import that's Basenji enough (and ok healthwise etc)". The etc covered the temperament
Belgium has an open stud book next to a 'closed' one. You only have to be a Belgian citizen and show your dog twice with the result "very good". Then you can submit your dog to the open stud book. You will have to breed it with dogs from the closed stud book and after 3 or 4 generations the offspring will be registered in the closed stud book. So it's not impossible. It does take some time
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I think this BCOA/AKC process will get some new blood into the basenji lines, and help our breed. Back to this thread. Anyone who breeds "african's" who have not been accepted into BCOA are just breeding mixes. They might "catch" the uninformed re selling puppies, but the folks who love and know our breed will just see this as a way to
make some $$ on the backs of dogs. Yes, I said dogs, not basenjis.
