Understanding "Registration"

[Patty M]

Hi everyone,
I adopted Halo from Chicago! She is about 17 months old, spayed, and 100% puppy. I was fortunate to see Halo's mom listing on here, and my sister travelled to Illinois and fostered her until they could fly to sunny Florida.

This is Halo's third Forever Home, and she is surely a pack of unbundled energy. My older dog, Joker, is trying to teach her the ropes, and I'm sure it's only a matter of time until they bond. She is affectionate and loving, but when I say "loving", I should follow that with lover of table tops, garbage cans, plastic bags, and yes, hugs.

My question is about Halo's registration. She started her life in Steve and Susan Steele's puppy mill, aka Heritage Breeder, out of Lake Mills, Iowa… and was sold to Petland.

So, when I looked on the http://www.pedigrees.zandebasenjis.com/ website, I was surprised to see Halo's information:

Halo
Black Tan & White
F
USA
23 Dec 2008

Red Willow Decker
HP000220/08 - B04ZADG33273T USA
1 Jan 2002

Betsy Decker
Black Tan & White
HM935379/02 - B06AXDG37761T USA
27 Dec 2000

What do the registration numbers mean…. that Red Willow and Betsy Decker were her parents, and they were raised in a puppy mill? Or do you think he found someone local (the Deckers?) that had a litter of basenjis that he bought and sold to Petland?

I found an organization that does research on puppy mills, and they sent me the following information on Susan and Steve Steele.... before I received this report, I assumed that Susan and Steve were nice mom and pop folks, in the heartland of Iowa, who enjoy the simple farming life of pigs, cattle... or perhaps corn? No, these people have over 1,000 dogs on their property! And the conditions described are shocking to say the least... Unbelievable. :mad:

http://www.petshoppuppies.com/report.asp?ID=42B0159

Anyway, if someone can enlighten me on the registration numbers, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

[lvoss]

The registration numbers are not AKC so what it means is that this person is unwilling to play by AKC's rules of doing a DNA profile for frequently used sires. A DNA profile only costs $40, and only $35 if you prepay so it isn't very expensive but it cuts into the profits. Or the person had their AKC priviledges revoked and cannot register litters with AKC because they were caught not following AKC guidelines.

[tanza]

Yes, it means that Red Willow Decker and Betsy Decker are her Sire/Dam. They are most likely breeding dogs for Steele's. They may have come from another puppy mill breeder that went out of business and sold their dogs a auction and I would bet that they have been puppy mill dogs for their entire lives. Most of the Pedigree is all puppy mill breeding.

And I would highly suggest that you do the DNA test for Fanconi as soon as possible so you know what the status is. There are a number of Fanconi dogs in her pedigree. You can learn about the DNA test at www.basenjihealth.org and learn about Fanconi, along with other Basenji health concerns and order the cheek swab test at www.offa.org. It will be the best 65.00 that you ever spend for your peace of mind if she comes back Clear or Carrier. If she tests Affected, at least you know that you need to start strip testing her monthly

[tanza]

@lvoss:

The registration numbers are not AKC so what it means is that this person is unwilling to play by AKC's rules of doing a DNA profile for frequently used sires. A DNA profile only costs $40, and only $35 if you prepay so it isn't very expensive but it cuts into the profits. Or the person had their AKC priviledges revoked and cannot register litters with AKC because they were caught not following AKC guidelines.

If you look at Sally's site, the sire and dam do have AKC numbers along with the "fake" kennel club numbers. Along with her post above, has AKC numbers.

[Patty M]

LVoss, are the numbers related to another dog database, like APRI?

Pat, how do you know that a number of the dogs in her Pedigree have Fanconi?

Thanks for your help, just trying to learn… I personally don't care if she has AKC papers or not, but I do care about her health and potential issues... she's a little peanut at 12 pounds!

[lvoss]

The AKC number are the HP numbers the other number is some other registry like APRI. Puppy mills like the alternate registries because they do not require DNA profiles and don't care if they have had their priviledges suspended by AKC.

It is really important to get the Fanconi test done since Halo's background is unknown and there is Fanconi in the pedigree. When you take her for her wellness check be sure the vet checks for things like slipping patellas and a heart murmur.

12 pounds is tiny for a basenji, is she at a healthy weight or is she skin and bones? If she is very thin, what does her stool look like? She may have other issues like IBD or EPI that will need to be investigated and gotten under control.

[Patty M]

She is thin and bony, and she does have intestinal issues (is that IBD/EPI?)… her last momma did a lot of experiments to find a food that she can digest without diarrhea, so she's on a diet of Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance. So far, so good.

It's funny to watch her eat, because she will chomp her meal within SECONDS if you let her! I've been hand feeding her to slow her down, but I got a "Busy Buddy" to put her food in, which she has to bat around for the food to fall out of, so we'll see if she likes it.
I still don't understand how you know there's Fanconi in her pedigree? Can you point me to the database you are looking at?

[lvoss]

It depends on the symptoms what GI issue she may have. Did her former owner have a TLI test done to find out if it was EPI which can be treated with enzymes added to her food so she extract nutrients? The symptoms of IBD and EPI can be very similar.

[sharronhurlbut]

Patty M, most of the puppymillers don't test for fanconi and it does show up.
Sometimes they don't even do the right paperwork for who the sire/dam are re parents.
So, do get the fanconi testing done.
Also, have you done a fecal for worms and other critters she might have? Not trying to scare you just help.

[tanza]

Many of us that have been breeding for many years, before the Fanconi DNA test know pedigrees that had or produced Fanconi. Hers is one. If you look at the pedigree and then at the offspring, etc… you will see a couple that have been tested and noted as Affected. Also, note that since the DNA test have only been available since July 2007, many people that have/had affected Fanconi dogs didn't bother to test since they knew their status. And the fact that nothing in her pedigree has been tested puts her a risk unless you test. Again for 65.00 it is well worth the cost to know her status.

And the best way to find out what is going on with her digestive system is to have your Vet run tests... particularly for EPI and IBD. Just relying on trying different foods is not going to find the cause of the problems. And I agree, 12lbs is very small for an adult Basenji. My pups are 4 months and 4 1/2 months and are of around 15lbs each. Also typically a dog with EPI will eat, eat and eat more... problem is they never can digest the food, it just runs right though them. Is her stool like cow patties?... how often does she go? Most with EPI will go 5 to 7 times a day...

[Kipawa]

All I can say is DAMN PUPPY MILL PEOPLE. This angers me to no end.

[MacPack]

Hi Patty, Congratulations on Halo, a nice angelic name, haha.
I can't give you any info on registrations numbers but I'm sure others can. I'm so glad that Halo worked out for you, would love to meet her someday!
Anne

[Patty M]

Thanks, Anne! My son started saying, "Hey! Lola", kind of like, "Hey there Delilah", so we are calling her both Halo and Lola. She is adjusting well to Florida living, chasing the lizards and startled by the frogs.

Pat, as long as she stays on this food, her stools are normal. She gets into trouble when she finds fun things like Joker's food (Iams), then she gets diarrhea… quickly too, I might add.

One odd trait, is that she doesn't talk or bark at all... I haven't heard her voice, although my sister said that she whined once when she was left alone... She is alert, and loves to play with her mouth, but makes no roo's or noises when she plays with Joker...

And Fran, I hear you loud and clear! I wish responsible basenji breeders would think twice before letting their babies fall into the hands of these monsters.

[Quercus]

@Patty:

Thanks, Anne! My son started saying, "Hey! Lola", kind of like, "Hey there Delilah", so we are calling her both Halo and Lola. She is adjusting well to Florida living, chasing the lizards and startled by the frogs.

Pat, as long as she stays on this food, her stools are normal. She gets into trouble when she finds fun things like Joker's food (Iams), then she gets diarrhea… quickly too, I might add.

One odd trait, is that she doesn't talk or bark at all... I haven't heard her voice, although my sister said that she whined once when she was left alone... She is alert, and loves to play with her mouth, but makes no roo's or noises when she plays with Joker...

And Fran, I hear you loud and clear! I wish responsible basenji breeders would think twice before letting their babies fall into the hands of these monsters.

Patty…a lot of Basenjis rarely make any noise at all. Our Ivy is virtually silent unless she REALLY has to go potty, then just a tiny whine. Oh, and when she snarks at Querk....but overall, we have a pretty quiet bunch.

[tanza]

Glad to hear that you do have a food that keeps her pretty normal. No surprise that IAMS doesn't agree with her, since it has corn and other fillers, many times that will not agree with lots of different breeds (or mixes) of dogs.

And agree… not an odd trait.. you will find many are just very quiet.. my OJ never in his entire life yodeled (and that was 17+yrs)

Again, I urge you to do the Fanconi DNA test.

[Patty M]

I will do the Fanconi test, for my own peace of mind. When my Lucy died, it was so unexpected that I wonder if she had it; I got her from a young gal that bred her two basenjis, so I never knew her pedigree.

I was surprised to see the AKC Registration numbers for both of Halo's parents, knowing that she came from a mill, and I went on AKCs web site to validate that the number is valid. I am also impressed that the basenji website even had little Halo recognized as a dog…. how did she do that?