Hey eeeefarm, read that article you shared via link…..very interesting and enlightening! when one reads about spindle cells and the amygdala, one has to consider emotions to some degree in animals across the board! don't know about trees etc....???? 'nother forum ????
Need Home for Basenji
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Wow, bless you for doing this for your beloved pet..Tucker has a hero in you and your wife, for sure.
Sounds like it is moving in the right direction and that obstacles are won over..very good. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that his lumps are just benign lipomas and nothing more..You are in my thoughts and prayers…I know you are on the right track..
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In addition to everything else this dog has been through, he suffered a lens luxation in his right eye. For those of you not savvy on your opthalmology, a lens luxation is when the ligaments holding the lens in place fail, and the lens breaks loose and floats around in the eye. The lens has moved forward and does not appear to want to go back behind the pupil and it's starting to kill his cornea cells (turning them milky). He's going to go blind in that eye, eventually.
I have a Basenji bitch with Lens Luxation (which is said to be genetic, so the reason that she was never bred, nor her offspring). It was found when she was 6 or 7. She has been treated with drops since and visited the Ophth every six months. There has been no change in 6yrs and has been controlled by the drops.
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Just an update on Tucker.
First, Dr. Meyer is not at the top of my list anymore. This happened early in my quest to keep Tucker around, but after the assessment, she told me to put him down as most of you know by now. She followed up with me a couple weeks later and I told her I was working with a trainer and who he was. She was familiar with George and his methods and assumed we were using an e-Collar. At the time, we were not, which surprised her. Shortly thereafter, I got a letter from her reiterating her recommendations except it included an offer to provide services for treatment via medication. I was a little put off that she told me to kill my dog and then comes back, once she realized I intended to save him at all cost, and offered her services to help me.
I've had 2 private sessions with George C o c k r e l l [this forum seems to think his last name is dirty for whatever reason…. :)] and I am at the midpoint in a 6 session group class on Saturdays. If you didn't know, George told me that Tucker is not an aggressive dog and that he bites out of fear. His regime is to help me train Tuck to a high degree of discipline at which point the bite situations can be controlled (in addition to other methods, like muzzle and crate). I've nearly got him accustomed to his crate, he sleeps in it every night now and makes it through most nights without trying to get into our bed. The muzzle training went fine, but I haven't be in a situation that I had to put it on him in a while, so I suspect I'll need to put it on him more lest he forget what it is. I have only closed the crate door once and he freaked out when he woke up. I will try closing it again soon.
There was a hiccough in the training. In addition to everything else this dog has been through, he suffered a lens luxation in his right eye. For those of you not savvy on your opthalmology, a lens luxation is when the ligaments holding the lens in place fail, and the lens breaks loose and floats around in the eye. The lens has moved forward and does not appear to want to go back behind the pupil and it's starting to kill his cornea cells (turning them milky). He's going to go blind in that eye, eventually. He's just started to bump into a few things. I imagine this will improve as he gets used to losing his right side vision. After 7 or more trips to the opthalmologist at The Hope Center in Vienna, Va, we elected to treat with drugs for this eye over the microsurgery ($4500) to remove the lens in addition to drops for the good eye in a preventative nature. The surgery can complicate things worse than they are now, even if successful, requiring more surgery and even quicken his losing the eye and, subsequently, another surgery to remove it. According to the opthalmologist, if one eye luxates, the other typically follows. There is no time connection between eyes, though. Our plan is to continue drug treatment (drops) with his right eye. Should the other eye go, we will most likely go with the more aggressive surgery in order to save some vision and risk the complications. VPI will cover about 35% of the cost. All this means that I cannot use the training methods George had outlined for us and we had to change midstream. Initially, I used the plastic pinch collar all class attendees use, but now I've gone with the Sit Means Sit e-Collar. The opthalmoligist said I need to minimize any constriction on his neck because it increases the pressure on the jugular, which increases the eye pressure that could lead to accelerated glaucoma. I know a lot of you would disagree with this approach, but we tried it and there is no aggressive response from Tucker, just obedience, reinforcing George's assessment of Tucker and somewhat detracting Dr. Meyer's assessment. Yes, Tucker is a biter, but it's not because he's an aggressive dog. The collar I got was the SportDog 800SMS (the Sit Means Sit collar created by Fred Hassen and SportDog). It can be dialed down to virtually nothing. Yes, I tried the collar myself and on the lowest setting, I couldn't even feel it, but Tucker recognizes it and responds. He is also sporting a new RuffWear harness. He's a handsome boy in his new walkwear.
So, as of now, we've just started the training all over again using the e-collar in place of the plastic pinch.
Presently, my wife and I have agreed to keep Tucker until we have a child, which could be anytime between 9 months from now to never. My mom, who lives alone, has agreed to take Tucker and continue his training should we have a child. Tucker will live out his life.
A couple things to note. Tucker would only bite (with few exceptions) if he was touched on the head by a stranger, or someone he was not familiar with. On the third group training class, after 1 private class and during the 2nd private class, Tucker approached George and sat against him. George was able to pet Tucker and grasp and stroke his head like Tuck was his own dog. No negative reaction from Tucker at all. Additionally, I cut Tucker's toenails a few nights ago. Something I've never been able to do without fearing a bite from him…even me, knowing his limits. Yes, he raised his lip a bit at me, but he made no grumblings about it. That, my Basenji friends, is BIG progess if you knew this dog.
Lastly, on a potentially down note, Tucker has started developing lumps at various locations on his body. I'm hoping for the best but fearing the worst. He has a dime sized lump on his chest, a quarter sized lump on his side (between his ribs and his hind leg web) and there's another dime sized one behind his armpit, on the side of his ribcage. The stick out just a bit, but I can feel them pretty easily. I'm hoping these are simply lipomas. It would devastate me if, after all of this, he developed the big C. That is the one battle I have no hope of winning. His vet appointment is this Thursday evening. I've had one removed from him before that started to impede his ability to walk. It grew to about half the size of a golf ball before I had it removed. It was benign.
I had a Basenji that had the floating lens problem where 1 eye went blind and we used prescription Travatan drops in the other to keep the pressure down and that worked for 3 years until she passed away at 15-1/2. It's very expensive. I have some unopened bottles if you want I can mail it at no charge. Ask the vet. It only takes 1 drop a day or if it's bad 1 drop 2x daily.
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I had a Basenji that had the floating lens problem where 1 eye went blind and we used prescription Travatan drops in the other to keep the pressure down and that worked for 3 years until she passed away at 15-1/2. It's very expensive. I have some unopened bottles if you want I can mail it at no charge. Ask the vet. It only takes 1 drop a day or if it's bad 1 drop 2x daily.
Also, many of the medications from the Vet you can buy on line at 1/2 the price… just need the RX from the Vet. Don't know about all states but in California it is the law that the Vet must give you the RX if you ask. The person that has my girl with the lens problem was talking about the cost and I told her that I found it on line at xxx price... and to just tell the Vet you can get it cheaper and please give me the RX. Either they will give you it or reduce the price... I don't mind my Vet making a profit, but I will not put up with draining me dry.....
Just a note if/when you are buying on line, be careful of the expiration dates.... that is the only thing that I have found
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Also, many of the medications from the Vet you can buy on line at 1/2 the price… just need the RX from the Vet. Don't know about all states but in California it is the law that the Vet must give you the RX if you ask. The person that has my girl with the lens problem was talking about the cost and I told her that I found it on line at xxx price... and to just tell the Vet you can get it cheaper and please give me the RX. Either they will give you it or reduce the price... I don't mind my Vet making a profit, but I will not put up with draining me dry.....
Just a note if/when you are buying on line, be careful of the expiration dates.... that is the only thing that I have found
I used to get the prescription mostly from COSTCO for $70 a bottle then a friend would get me the same product from Mexico for $35 (1/2 COSTCOs price).
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Does anyone know where I can bupenorpine (kitty morphine) for my cat and his badly curved arthritic back? I have a post office box just across the border in Point Roberts in Washington state that I could have it sent to. Here, it is $70 for 5 ml. and my cat Barney is getting .15 ml. every second day. It really adds up.
But there is the quality and safety issue I am concerned about too. At least I have complete faith when getting it from my vet. .
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Thanks everyone for the information. The opthalmologist currently has him on 3 different drops. I give him Azopt ($135 @ CVS but The Hope Center gives it to me for $88) 3x/day in his bad eye. I give him Flurbiprofen ($50?) in his bad eye 2x/day and I give him a third drop of Timolol ($30 at Pet Meds) 2x/day in both eyes - preventative in the good eye. Overall, it's not so bad. The Timolol bottle is double the size of the other bottles and lasts roughly 2 months. So the reality is that I'm spending around $150/month. She has me coming in once a month for checkups, but they are reasonable and VPI covers 30-40% of the visits. I presume they'll cover the meds also, I just need to submit the claims. The Hope Center has been really good to me - they submit the claims for me if I have enough sense to bring a form with me when I go.
My wife's dog, a OE Sheep Dog, is allergic to EVERYTHING. We've tried EVERYTHING and now we're on the most expensive drug for skin issues called Atopica. With her size, we need four packs per month and each pair of packs runs around $170. My wife's skin guy is giving it to her for around $260/month as opposed to Pet Meds at $340.
Our dogs are costing us $500/month in medications alone!
Glad we don't have kids yet… -
Thanks everyone for the information. The opthalmologist currently has him on 3 different drops. I give him Azopt ($135 @ CVS but The Hope Center gives it to me for $88) 3x/day in his bad eye. I give him Flurbiprofen ($50?) in his bad eye 2x/day and I give him a third drop of Timolol ($30 at Pet Meds) 2x/day in both eyes - preventative in the good eye. Overall, it's not so bad. The Timolol bottle is double the size of the other bottles and lasts roughly 2 months. So the reality is that I'm spending around $150/month. She has me coming in once a month for checkups, but they are reasonable and VPI covers 30-40% of the visits. I presume they'll cover the meds also, I just need to submit the claims. The Hope Center has been really good to me - they submit the claims for me if I have enough sense to bring a form with me when I go.
My wife's dog, a OE Sheep Dog, is allergic to EVERYTHING. We've tried EVERYTHING and now we're on the most expensive drug for skin issues called Atopica. With her size, we need four packs per month and each pair of packs runs around $170. My wife's skin guy is giving it to her for around $260/month as opposed to Pet Meds at $340.
Our dogs are costing us $500/month in medications alone!
Glad we don't have kids yet…Wow, that's a lot of meds! How old is Tucker?
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I had a fear biter years ago. Bless your heart for working so hard with Tucker.
As we had no children, we just crated him when we had company. -
My wife's dog, a OE Sheep Dog, is allergic to EVERYTHING. We've tried EVERYTHING and now we're on the most expensive drug for skin issues called Atopica. With her size, we need four packs per month and each pair of packs runs around $170. My wife's skin guy is giving it to her for around $260/month as opposed to Pet Meds at $340.
I know you probably changed the diet, but have you tried either raw or homecooked( if you don't want to go raw) meals for the allergies? I had a dog (westie) with severe allergies in the past and they vanished once he got on raw diet..just a thought..
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What are you feeding your OE sheep dog now?
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TuckerVA, you are working miracles with Tucker, he is a very lucky dog to have such a dedicated human willing to work so hard to keep him. Kudos to you and your family. Some dogs require unique training and it sounds like you have found a great fit with a trainer. I am so happy for you!
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It is a lot of meds, but it works out since he bit our last dog walker and she quit. I come home during my lunch break now. My wife gives him a few drops in the morning, I give a few at noon and then again in the evening. Tucker is 7.5 now.
Maggie is eating dry food called Natural Balance L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Sweet Potato & Fish Formula for Dogs (Maggie will eat anything and since Tucker likes fish, he eats it also). I just now read up on it and it got 4 stars and was rated one of the best allergy foods out there according to this list: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1493&cat=4 but after reading this and the lowered meat content, I might reevaluate what I'm feeding Tucker. I used to feed him Merrick's Wilderness Blend, which is a much better food. As for Maggie, we feed her 1.5-2 cups of the LID and 2 cups of canned green beans (twice a day) since she's also a bit overweight from her stint on steriods (down from 117 to 96lbs so far). The skin guy, Dr. Jeffers in Gaithersburg, Md, has tried everything, from shots to steriods. He did a full allergy panel on Maggie twice and both times over 80% of the things she could be allergic to were checked on the environmental panel list. Grasses, Trees, Dust…. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. I'll have her mention it to him and see what he say (re: raw diet). She eats like a pig, though. I can imagine feeding her raw beef or chicken and how much THAT would cost.
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My Westie ate the same food, very good kibble for allergic dogs, but Bogus needed even "cleaner" food, so we took it to the next level, and started him on raw…life changing. He lived many months a year with a cone on his head to prevent him from chewing himself until bleeding. His allergies were to mold, mildew and storage mites...
He is no longer with us...crossed the bridge last spring.
I have three dogs now, all thriving on raw, I spend about the same for their food now as I would if I fed them good quality, high dollar kibble. -
It is a lot of meds, but it works out since he bit our last dog walker and she quit. I come home during my lunch break now. My wife gives him a few drops in the morning, I give a few at noon and then again in the evening. Tucker is 7.5 now.
Maggie is eating dry food called Natural Balance L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Sweet Potato & Fish Formula for Dogs (Maggie will eat anything and since Tucker likes fish, he eats it also). I just now read up on it and it got 4 stars and was rated one of the best allergy foods out there according to this list: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1493&cat=4 but after reading this and the lowered meat content, I might reevaluate what I'm feeding Tucker. I used to feed him Merrick's Wilderness Blend, which is a much better food. As for Maggie, we feed her 1.5-2 cups of the LID and 2 cups of canned green beans (twice a day) since she's also a bit overweight from her stint on steriods (down from 117 to 96lbs so far). The skin guy, Dr. Jeffers in Gaithersburg, Md, has tried everything, from shots to steriods. He did a full allergy panel on Maggie twice and both times over 80% of the things she could be allergic to were checked on the environmental panel list. Grasses, Trees, Dust…. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. I'll have her mention it to him and see what he say (re: raw diet). She eats like a pig, though. I can imagine feeding her raw beef or chicken and how much THAT would cost.
Even though it may get high ratings and be high quality the dog may be allergic to something in the food. Your doing an outstanding job with Tucker and you have my respect for not giving up on him.
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I don't think what she eats has so much of a bearing on her skin problems. She's allergic to everything in the environment. Our condo is dusty, but we'll be moving into a new home in about a year, so maybe this will help also. Our condo is built out of toothpicks and elmers glue and the air leakage in the unit is unbelievable. I can dust, and 10 minutes later a new layer has settled. We even had hardwoods…so it's not from the carpet. It's rediculous and we can't wait to get out.
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Just wanted to give an update… Tucker has been doing pretty well in his new environment (we moved to a house about a month ago) and now that he's muzzled almost 24/7. We take it off when he eats and I'll take it off on the few occasions I'm home alone. Since we've moved, we've had children in the house, my mother, and my wife's family and there have been no major incidents. Tucker jumped on some of the kids due to fear, I presume, but the muzzle rendered his 'attacks' innocuous. The kids were scared and cried, but there was no damage done. I still worry that someday a finger might slip into the muzzle by a kid trying to push him away - but thus far, this hasn't occurred. I think once he 'attacks' and realizes he can't do any damage and nothing really changes, he settles down. And just to be clear, the incidents involved the kids jumping around and acting like kids, and it unsettled Tucker, and he leapt at them. I'm sure his intention was to bite someone or something, but, as stated, no damage done. In general, though, I think the situation is much more tolerable and the inhabitants (my wife, the nutcase drunk living with us and myself) are more at ease knowing he can't cause any damage. I'm actually pleased he's taken to it so well. He will actually come to me with muzzle in hand and sit while I strap it on with virtually no reaction to the installation. It's like a collar to him now. I guess even a basenji can get used to it over time.
We still have our backup plan intact, and that involves a sanctuary in Texas. I can't remember how much I've written about that place in here, but they take almost all aggressive dogs since they are an 'end of the line' type sanctuary. The guy who runs it is very personable and started by saving dogs in his garage. Now he has his own ranch and his brother pulls all of the basenji's out of his santuary to live in his own home in NC. We've been donating to the sanctuary since we first contacted them about a year ago. We're up to around $250 and we'll make another donation at Christmas time. The intent is to pay the full 'build an enclosure' fee of about $1,100 prior to the possibility of having to place Tucker there (should we have a child and feel that it's too dangerous in our home). No pregnancies yet, though, so he'll be with us for at least another 9+ months.
The sanctuary is called Smiling Dog Farms, and their website is here: www.smilingdogfarms.org if you'd like to check it out or if you are looking for a worthy place for a donation. You can read about them on their site, if you wish, but the gist of how it works is that if you send your dog there, you are not required to donate anything or pay for anything, but they do ask that, if you can, you donate the enclosure cost for your dog. It's around $1,100 to build the enclosure that will be exclusively your pets home for the rest of his life. It's an outdoor 'cottage' and fenced in area. They WILL place another dog with yours if your dog will accent a 'pal'. They also ask that you help market for them via personal emails and whatnot. It costs around $80/month for upkeep on each dog there if I remember correctly. The intent is, if you send them a dog, that you can get, from family and friends, committments the equate to around $80/month. Or, naturally, you can sponsor a dog already there. Again, Tucker is not slated to go just yet and we have found at least one other sanctuary that is closer, but it's currently full and since Tucker is doing well, we are trying to accommodate the situation as best we can. We want to be prepared which is why we are working on getting the full $1,100 to them within a year or so should the possibility that Tucker needs to go there become a reality. If he never goes, then we've sustained the life of someone elses beloved pet for a year or more. I'm sure we'll continue to support their cause regardless as we know, up close and personal, what it's like to try to coexist with a dog with behavioral issues and what it's like to have to consider parting with said dog. I hope this didn't come across as a sales pitch because that is not my intent. As for everything else, we will be moving forward with building our new home in Virginia within the next 3-6 months. We've cleaned up the hoarding mess left by our crazy relative (about whom I've mentioned in previous posts). If you have any interest at all as to what we've been up against, I put together a 'before and after' video of the cleanup of one of the two houses. This is of the one that she set fire to (accidentally). It's located on my own personal server on my own personal domain, so it's safe to download! http://www.jtnewton.com/Images/16th%20Road%20Cleanup%20Before%20and%20After_0001.wmv Enjoy! We did this process twice, in two separate houses, and we're living in the other one (with the drunk, hoarding crazy semi-relative). Keep in mind only one house had a fire, and the cleanup was simply to clear the hoarding violations with the county. The house will be demolished when we're ready to proceed with construction. No niceties required - just cleaning the house out. As for statistics, we removed 4ea 30 cuyd dumpsters of stuff from the house with the fire and filled up an 8' x 8' x 40' sea container of stuff she would not let us trash - it is sitting in the driveway of the OTHER house presently, the one where we live. Regarding the house we live in (the second house), we removed 3ea 30 cuyd dumpsters of junk from inside the house and another dumpster of yard debris (the backyard was a jungle and had the counties attention also). The attic is still full of crap and the house is a single level 1,800 sqft house - so that gives you some idea of the amount of crap in it. The room she now occupies in the house is slowly filling up with more junk she aquires from 'we don't know where'. Now that the backyard has been clearcut, Tucker (and my wife's dog) have a large place to run when they want.
Anyway, I know this is long winded, but it's where we are with Tucker and everything else we've accomplished and what we face in the not too distant future.
Cheers,
Jason -
Thank you , Jason, for the update. I've thought of you and your Tucker often, and I'm glad to hear he's made progress. You sound much more calm than before, and with a plan in place, you should be. I'm going to download your video so that I can feel "normal"!
(Err, I just watched it, HOLY MOLY! I can understand the stress level you've been living through… bless you, your wife, and Tucker! :))
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I am just now reading, and after 3 pages skipped back to end.
One thing I don't see mentioned isn't aesthetically appealing but an option. If you are determined to not euthanize the dog, why not just have his front teeth pulled or filed down? No muzzle will be needed. I would still, for his own calm, crate him with people are visiting, but really, that might be a real solution. I usually advise people in your situation to euthanize, but I do know several who simply had the vet pull or file down all the front teeth. The one issue with pulling is the tongue often hangs out (hence the not aesthetically appealing).
I also didn't see if you mentioned prozac or similar medications. I once knew a really scary Weimaraner that, put on prozac, became a good dog.
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We thought about the "K9 disarming", but the vets in our area don't do it. They euthanize before they pull or file dog's teeth. Yeah, we could probably find someone, but, like a muzzle, it doesn't change the behavioral issue and tooth removal/filing actually does less than a muzzle does regarding protecting others. A dog with ANY teeth can still bite and could potentially cut or tear skin.
We also explored medication. The last behaviorist we went to, the dog trainer (George ****rell) and my vet said not to put him on drugs. They all have agreed that it's not really a mental issue with the dog - he has simple been abused to the point of fearing everyone that is a stranger to him. The side effects of prozac and the other 'calming' drugs available for dogs include agression. While I could certainly TRY these options, we chose not to. Knowing what we know, he would still be behind the muzzle 24/7. So why add drugs into the mix when the problem is currently idle?
