@elbrant and all of you thanks!
Need Home for Basenji
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I just want to say…never give up on your dog. Obviously, people here disagree as to what is best for the dog. Some of you said put him down, some supported my efforts. But what is best for you is also important, and keeping Tucker alive is the best thing for me and I'd like to think Tucker agrees that it's best for him as well. You might think this is selfish, but I would disagree. Killing an animal whom you love, in my opinion, is never 'the best option'. Who says animals don't have feelings and don't have an opinion. Who says they don't know what's coming...when you find a dog that can talk, let me know. Tucker trusts me. I refuse to let him down and my persistance has proven that there are alternatives. It just takes commitment and dedication. If you don't possess these traits, in my opinion, you've got no business having a dog.
Im glad you are doing all you can for your dog, and I sincerely hope it works out for you. I dont know anything about the trainers you are working with but I sincerely hope they are not using CM's methods on a fearful dog. CM's methods are extremely outdated.
It isnt fair for you to judge those of us who suggested putting the dog down. It isnt about commitment, it's about reality, and from your posts, an unpredictable dog who bites and has fear issues, whom 2 behaviourists suggested putting to sleep… How are we to come to any other conclusion? Obviously we can only give our advice based on the limited information that we know.
I would do all I could for my dog and to not put him to sleep if we were in a similar situation, but there is a point where you cannot help the dog, and you have to consider their quality of life. If you can keep them away from other people and situations where they will bite then good! But that isnt always the case. -
I have chills down my spine and tears in my eyes. What an awe-inspiring post!
You are addressing both issues, and in such a pro-active way! (Concerning your Aunt, if you can get her away from the booze and get some Vitamin B supplements into her diet, you may see some of the dimensia wane…. no, I'm not a doctor, that's just from my family history. Of course, check with a doctor first. )
(Insert celebratory banners, happy faces:p, and hearts here! :))
Thanks for the update, and keep the Faith. Your determination to do the right thing for all will lead to great things!:D You made my week, and it's only Monday!
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Thanks for the update, i hope everything works out well for you. It's great that you are exploring all avenues and have a continguency plan.
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We do want to support you here. Please let us know how its going.
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Good to hear that things are working with the training. Please keep us posted..
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I'm so glad you have a plan of action. If you, or anyone lurking, need a hopeful tale of a difficult dog, i'd suggest reading "Bringing Light to Shadow"
http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB808
don't know why i did think to suggest it sooner.
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It isnt fair for you to judge those of us who suggested putting the dog down. It isnt about commitment, it's about reality, and from your posts, an unpredictable dog who bites and has fear issues, whom 2 behaviourists suggested putting to sleep… How are we to come to any other conclusion? Obviously we can only give our advice based on the limited information that we know.
I would do all I could for my dog and to not put him to sleep if we were in a similar situation, but there is a point where you cannot help the dog, and you have to consider their quality of life. If you can keep them away from other people and situations where they will bite then good! But that isnt always the case.You are correct, it is unfair of me to judge anyone. I can only do what I think is best by myself and by my dog. Different people handle things in different ways. All apologies to those who I might have offended. I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve and some of my posts might have exhibited poor judgement resulting from my desparation. I was just more than a little disappointed that the top brass at BRAT chose to ignore my situation and didn't even respond to my email. And, Sharron, I'm not talking about you, so please don't take offense. I'm not referring to JR either, he's been nothing but helpful…as best as he can given the number of fosters he's already caring for. I know there's 'bad blood' between .org and .us, and I don't want to get into that here. But the support and advice certainly didn't come from where I had expected it to come from...
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Oh, my unmet friend. I have to tell you BRAT was totally aware. However, its gotten to be a very big group, BRAT that is, with so many various issues…so Those at the top tend to let us and I am talking about JR handle things...
I want to say, I admire you. Your a great person and I hope this will work for your b and your family. I am glad you understand that we all even with opinions different from yours were honestly trying to help you and support you.
So, moving on, do tell us what we can do to help support you in the future.
We are all so hoping this works... -
TuckerVA - I'm in awe of your love and dedication to your dog. Above the problems with Tucker, you are dealing with really serious family issues. You might love Basenjis, but you have the constitution of a Bull Terrier.
I don't think there was anything in your messages that was derrogatory in any way. Nothing you said came across to me as volatile. IMO, you have not done or said anything that is upsetting or rude. You're just working out the mechanics of how to best help Trucker, the dog you love.
Please keep us all updated on Tucker's progress. Bless you.
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You are correct, it is unfair of me to judge anyone. I can only do what I think is best by myself and by my dog. Different people handle things in different ways. All apologies to those who I might have offended. I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve and some of my posts might have exhibited poor judgement resulting from my desparation. I was just more than a little disappointed that the top brass at BRAT chose to ignore my situation and didn't even respond to my email. And, Sharron, I'm not talking about you, so please don't take offense. I'm not referring to JR either, he's been nothing but helpful…as best as he can given the number of fosters he's already caring for. I know there's 'bad blood' between .org and .us, and I don't want to get into that here. But the support and advice certainly didn't come from where I had expected it to come from...
i wish you both the best of luck and i am glad you are doing all you can!
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Keep us updated, 'kay…I hope to hear that he is making remarkable progress...and I am really glad you are sticking with him
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Have you tried any medication? I am using Clomicalm for Gizmo's separation anxiety, and from what it says in the directions, it is for all types of behavioral issues, including aggression.
Apparently it reduces the chemical flow to the brain that causes the "excitement" trigger, which again triggers these types of behavioral issues.The drug is supposed to be used along with behavior training too.
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Have you tried any medication? I am using Clomicalm for Gizmo's separation anxiety, and from what it says in the directions, it is for all types of behavioral issues, including aggression.
Apparently it reduces the chemical flow to the brain that causes the "excitement" trigger, which again triggers these types of behavioral issues.The drug is supposed to be used along with behavior training too.
"The behaviorist, Dr. Kathrn Meyer, has kept in touch with me and knows George ****rell as well. She was at first a bit put off by my having contacted him because of his extensive use of electronic equipment to train dogs. However, she was quite pleased that George was able to properly assess that electronic equipment was not the best option for Tucker's temperment. She and I remain in touch and will explore medication once Tucker's training progresses and the need will be revisited. Doggy Prozac is on the table, but since Tucker's lifestyle is changing drastically, she want's to wait prior to trying anything further in fear of any drugs having a negative effect due to their potential to increase aggression during the initial period of the drug use."
In addition, we spoke about Clomicalm. Dr. Meyer, whose specialty is medication, said that she would recommend the Prozac prior to the Clomicalm. While they both have aggression as a potential side affect, she feels the Prozac is the 'lesser of two evils'.
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Well done to you and I do hope that all the hard work you and your trainers are putting in with Tucker will be successful.
It's always good to hear from someone who is prepared to give these dogs a chance,
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Just an update on Tucker.
First, Dr. Meyer is not at the top of my list anymore. This happened early in my quest to keep Tucker around, but after the assessment, she told me to put him down as most of you know by now. She followed up with me a couple weeks later and I told her I was working with a trainer and who he was. She was familiar with George and his methods and assumed we were using an e-Collar. At the time, we were not, which surprised her. Shortly thereafter, I got a letter from her reiterating her recommendations except it included an offer to provide services for treatment via medication. I was a little put off that she told me to kill my dog and then comes back, once she realized I intended to save him at all cost, and offered her services to help me.
I've had 2 private sessions with George C o c k r e l l [this forum seems to think his last name is dirty for whatever reason…. :)] and I am at the midpoint in a 6 session group class on Saturdays. If you didn't know, George told me that Tucker is not an aggressive dog and that he bites out of fear. His regime is to help me train Tuck to a high degree of discipline at which point the bite situations can be controlled (in addition to other methods, like muzzle and crate). I've nearly got him accustomed to his crate, he sleeps in it every night now and makes it through most nights without trying to get into our bed. The muzzle training went fine, but I haven't be in a situation that I had to put it on him in a while, so I suspect I'll need to put it on him more lest he forget what it is. I have only closed the crate door once and he freaked out when he woke up. I will try closing it again soon.
There was a hiccough in the training. In addition to everything else this dog has been through, he suffered a lens luxation in his right eye. For those of you not savvy on your opthalmology, a lens luxation is when the ligaments holding the lens in place fail, and the lens breaks loose and floats around in the eye. The lens has moved forward and does not appear to want to go back behind the pupil and it's starting to kill his cornea cells (turning them milky). He's going to go blind in that eye, eventually. He's just started to bump into a few things. I imagine this will improve as he gets used to losing his right side vision. After 7 or more trips to the opthalmologist at The Hope Center in Vienna, Va, we elected to treat with drugs for this eye over the microsurgery ($4500) to remove the lens in addition to drops for the good eye in a preventative nature. The surgery can complicate things worse than they are now, even if successful, requiring more surgery and even quicken his losing the eye and, subsequently, another surgery to remove it. According to the opthalmologist, if one eye luxates, the other typically follows. There is no time connection between eyes, though. Our plan is to continue drug treatment (drops) with his right eye. Should the other eye go, we will most likely go with the more aggressive surgery in order to save some vision and risk the complications. VPI will cover about 35% of the cost. All this means that I cannot use the training methods George had outlined for us and we had to change midstream. Initially, I used the plastic pinch collar all class attendees use, but now I've gone with the Sit Means Sit e-Collar. The opthalmoligist said I need to minimize any constriction on his neck because it increases the pressure on the jugular, which increases the eye pressure that could lead to accelerated glaucoma. I know a lot of you would disagree with this approach, but we tried it and there is no aggressive response from Tucker, just obedience, reinforcing George's assessment of Tucker and somewhat detracting Dr. Meyer's assessment. Yes, Tucker is a biter, but it's not because he's an aggressive dog. The collar I got was the SportDog 800SMS (the Sit Means Sit collar created by Fred Hassen and SportDog). It can be dialed down to virtually nothing. Yes, I tried the collar myself and on the lowest setting, I couldn't even feel it, but Tucker recognizes it and responds. He is also sporting a new RuffWear harness. He's a handsome boy in his new walkwear.
So, as of now, we've just started the training all over again using the e-collar in place of the plastic pinch.
Presently, my wife and I have agreed to keep Tucker until we have a child, which could be anytime between 9 months from now to never. My mom, who lives alone, has agreed to take Tucker and continue his training should we have a child. Tucker will live out his life.
A couple things to note. Tucker would only bite (with few exceptions) if he was touched on the head by a stranger, or someone he was not familiar with. On the third group training class, after 1 private class and during the 2nd private class, Tucker approached George and sat against him. George was able to pet Tucker and grasp and stroke his head like Tuck was his own dog. No negative reaction from Tucker at all. Additionally, I cut Tucker's toenails a few nights ago. Something I've never been able to do without fearing a bite from him…even me, knowing his limits. Yes, he raised his lip a bit at me, but he made no grumblings about it. That, my Basenji friends, is BIG progess if you knew this dog.
Lastly, on a potentially down note, Tucker has started developing lumps at various locations on his body. I'm hoping for the best but fearing the worst. He has a dime sized lump on his chest, a quarter sized lump on his side (between his ribs and his hind leg web) and there's another dime sized one behind his armpit, on the side of his ribcage. The stick out just a bit, but I can feel them pretty easily. I'm hoping these are simply lipomas. It would devastate me if, after all of this, he developed the big C. That is the one battle I have no hope of winning. His vet appointment is this Thursday evening. I've had one removed from him before that started to impede his ability to walk. It grew to about half the size of a golf ball before I had it removed. It was benign.
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Wow, bless you for doing this for your beloved pet..Tucker has a hero in you and your wife, for sure.
Sounds like it is moving in the right direction and that obstacles are won over..very good. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that his lumps are just benign lipomas and nothing more..You are in my thoughts and prayers…I know you are on the right track..
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In addition to everything else this dog has been through, he suffered a lens luxation in his right eye. For those of you not savvy on your opthalmology, a lens luxation is when the ligaments holding the lens in place fail, and the lens breaks loose and floats around in the eye. The lens has moved forward and does not appear to want to go back behind the pupil and it's starting to kill his cornea cells (turning them milky). He's going to go blind in that eye, eventually.
I have a Basenji bitch with Lens Luxation (which is said to be genetic, so the reason that she was never bred, nor her offspring). It was found when she was 6 or 7. She has been treated with drops since and visited the Ophth every six months. There has been no change in 6yrs and has been controlled by the drops.
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Just an update on Tucker.
First, Dr. Meyer is not at the top of my list anymore. This happened early in my quest to keep Tucker around, but after the assessment, she told me to put him down as most of you know by now. She followed up with me a couple weeks later and I told her I was working with a trainer and who he was. She was familiar with George and his methods and assumed we were using an e-Collar. At the time, we were not, which surprised her. Shortly thereafter, I got a letter from her reiterating her recommendations except it included an offer to provide services for treatment via medication. I was a little put off that she told me to kill my dog and then comes back, once she realized I intended to save him at all cost, and offered her services to help me.
I've had 2 private sessions with George C o c k r e l l [this forum seems to think his last name is dirty for whatever reason…. :)] and I am at the midpoint in a 6 session group class on Saturdays. If you didn't know, George told me that Tucker is not an aggressive dog and that he bites out of fear. His regime is to help me train Tuck to a high degree of discipline at which point the bite situations can be controlled (in addition to other methods, like muzzle and crate). I've nearly got him accustomed to his crate, he sleeps in it every night now and makes it through most nights without trying to get into our bed. The muzzle training went fine, but I haven't be in a situation that I had to put it on him in a while, so I suspect I'll need to put it on him more lest he forget what it is. I have only closed the crate door once and he freaked out when he woke up. I will try closing it again soon.
There was a hiccough in the training. In addition to everything else this dog has been through, he suffered a lens luxation in his right eye. For those of you not savvy on your opthalmology, a lens luxation is when the ligaments holding the lens in place fail, and the lens breaks loose and floats around in the eye. The lens has moved forward and does not appear to want to go back behind the pupil and it's starting to kill his cornea cells (turning them milky). He's going to go blind in that eye, eventually. He's just started to bump into a few things. I imagine this will improve as he gets used to losing his right side vision. After 7 or more trips to the opthalmologist at The Hope Center in Vienna, Va, we elected to treat with drugs for this eye over the microsurgery ($4500) to remove the lens in addition to drops for the good eye in a preventative nature. The surgery can complicate things worse than they are now, even if successful, requiring more surgery and even quicken his losing the eye and, subsequently, another surgery to remove it. According to the opthalmologist, if one eye luxates, the other typically follows. There is no time connection between eyes, though. Our plan is to continue drug treatment (drops) with his right eye. Should the other eye go, we will most likely go with the more aggressive surgery in order to save some vision and risk the complications. VPI will cover about 35% of the cost. All this means that I cannot use the training methods George had outlined for us and we had to change midstream. Initially, I used the plastic pinch collar all class attendees use, but now I've gone with the Sit Means Sit e-Collar. The opthalmoligist said I need to minimize any constriction on his neck because it increases the pressure on the jugular, which increases the eye pressure that could lead to accelerated glaucoma. I know a lot of you would disagree with this approach, but we tried it and there is no aggressive response from Tucker, just obedience, reinforcing George's assessment of Tucker and somewhat detracting Dr. Meyer's assessment. Yes, Tucker is a biter, but it's not because he's an aggressive dog. The collar I got was the SportDog 800SMS (the Sit Means Sit collar created by Fred Hassen and SportDog). It can be dialed down to virtually nothing. Yes, I tried the collar myself and on the lowest setting, I couldn't even feel it, but Tucker recognizes it and responds. He is also sporting a new RuffWear harness. He's a handsome boy in his new walkwear.
So, as of now, we've just started the training all over again using the e-collar in place of the plastic pinch.
Presently, my wife and I have agreed to keep Tucker until we have a child, which could be anytime between 9 months from now to never. My mom, who lives alone, has agreed to take Tucker and continue his training should we have a child. Tucker will live out his life.
A couple things to note. Tucker would only bite (with few exceptions) if he was touched on the head by a stranger, or someone he was not familiar with. On the third group training class, after 1 private class and during the 2nd private class, Tucker approached George and sat against him. George was able to pet Tucker and grasp and stroke his head like Tuck was his own dog. No negative reaction from Tucker at all. Additionally, I cut Tucker's toenails a few nights ago. Something I've never been able to do without fearing a bite from him…even me, knowing his limits. Yes, he raised his lip a bit at me, but he made no grumblings about it. That, my Basenji friends, is BIG progess if you knew this dog.
Lastly, on a potentially down note, Tucker has started developing lumps at various locations on his body. I'm hoping for the best but fearing the worst. He has a dime sized lump on his chest, a quarter sized lump on his side (between his ribs and his hind leg web) and there's another dime sized one behind his armpit, on the side of his ribcage. The stick out just a bit, but I can feel them pretty easily. I'm hoping these are simply lipomas. It would devastate me if, after all of this, he developed the big C. That is the one battle I have no hope of winning. His vet appointment is this Thursday evening. I've had one removed from him before that started to impede his ability to walk. It grew to about half the size of a golf ball before I had it removed. It was benign.
I had a Basenji that had the floating lens problem where 1 eye went blind and we used prescription Travatan drops in the other to keep the pressure down and that worked for 3 years until she passed away at 15-1/2. It's very expensive. I have some unopened bottles if you want I can mail it at no charge. Ask the vet. It only takes 1 drop a day or if it's bad 1 drop 2x daily.
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I had a Basenji that had the floating lens problem where 1 eye went blind and we used prescription Travatan drops in the other to keep the pressure down and that worked for 3 years until she passed away at 15-1/2. It's very expensive. I have some unopened bottles if you want I can mail it at no charge. Ask the vet. It only takes 1 drop a day or if it's bad 1 drop 2x daily.
Also, many of the medications from the Vet you can buy on line at 1/2 the price… just need the RX from the Vet. Don't know about all states but in California it is the law that the Vet must give you the RX if you ask. The person that has my girl with the lens problem was talking about the cost and I told her that I found it on line at xxx price... and to just tell the Vet you can get it cheaper and please give me the RX. Either they will give you it or reduce the price... I don't mind my Vet making a profit, but I will not put up with draining me dry.....
Just a note if/when you are buying on line, be careful of the expiration dates.... that is the only thing that I have found
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Also, many of the medications from the Vet you can buy on line at 1/2 the price… just need the RX from the Vet. Don't know about all states but in California it is the law that the Vet must give you the RX if you ask. The person that has my girl with the lens problem was talking about the cost and I told her that I found it on line at xxx price... and to just tell the Vet you can get it cheaper and please give me the RX. Either they will give you it or reduce the price... I don't mind my Vet making a profit, but I will not put up with draining me dry.....
Just a note if/when you are buying on line, be careful of the expiration dates.... that is the only thing that I have found
I used to get the prescription mostly from COSTCO for $70 a bottle then a friend would get me the same product from Mexico for $35 (1/2 COSTCOs price).
