@elbrant and all of you thanks!
Need Home for Basenji
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Oh boy, I am close to tears after reading this. I remember when my sis made a hard decision to have her chow put down. My brother in law came home from work with a co-worker (female) for supper before going to a work convention. Baron gave no warning and just went for the lady's forearm when she came through the front door. He broke skin. As it turned out it was the second time he had bitten someone. The decision was incredibly hard for them. After Baron was sent to run freely, my husband mentioned to my sister that Baron had bit him once when he was patting Baron. I know that helped my sister and her husband realize that they had made the best decision for their unique situation. All situations are unique. There are a lot of things to weigh before making such an important decision. IF Cesar Millan and his people are willing to work with Tucker, that might be a solution. Has Cesar ever had a basenji at his dog psychology center. That alone might be of interest to him, though I am pretty sure if a new dog caused an unbalanced state in his pack, that he probably wouldn't go for it. I guess you just hope that there is hope for Tucker. I feel for you and all you are going through. You have obviously been a very caring dog owner.
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I am not close to tears, but in tears. I have been following this thread since it was first posted.
Hoping, oh hoping, for the perfect answer. Not responding because it has hit close to home and sometimes someone else's opinion doesn't mean anything to me. So sorry a decision has to be made.
I have a 2 year old male BRAT rescue. Sharron, the rescue angel, got him to me. He has bit my Husband, "guarding" me. Sharron has given us the advice of a rescue "expert" and we are working through our issues. He wasn't aggressive when we adopted him and I don't believe he had bit his first Mom. He came from a home with a single woman & 2 big dogs, to a home with a 7 year old adult female B, me & my husband. He absolutely LOVES my husband, except when I come home. Then, it's all about me.
Does Hunter still "guard" me, yes. Has he bit my Husband in the last week, yes. Do we both love this little 18 lb BRAT boy with all our hearts, YES! Do I believe he can be "cured"? Honestly I don't know. We don't have kids so only have ourselves to "worry" about. It would be easier on me to get rid of my Husband!! No more guarding issues!!
My heart feels so heavy for you & Tucker (very cool name, by the way!). After reading your basenji history & Sharron's Wonder dog, I am torn up with sadness.
I pray for Tucker, pray that he tells you what he needs you to do. I will give my BRAT mess a huge hug tonight and some extra kisses. He is so precious and really is only doing what he feels he needs to do. I will love him forever for that…I really do believe Tucker will tell you what you need to do, if you just ask him.
Whatever you have to do, I am behind you 100%! Your love for your dog shines through in everything you say.
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TBH and I may be the unpopular opinion here, but reading your post, it sounds an awful lot like you are trying to make up for the past, and as you say he represents your first shot at independence and responsability. This is a part of that responsability. You have tried, you have not given up on him. 2 well respected behaviourists have evaluated him and given you the same conclusion. IMO that would be the deciding factor.
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I just had to send hugs to everyone who posted. Tuckers owner, and your family most of all.
You do have our prayers. Let us know how it goes..we do want to help. -
If I have to have him put down, ultimately, I don't think I can do it. I had terrible dreams last night with Tucker replacing Marley in the final scene in Marley and Me. I was torn apart and woke up with a soaked pillow. Is it better to have someone else do it? Will I resent them for doing it if they do? Will BRAT evaluate him and make the final decision and tell me when the deed is done? I just don't know what to do. Emotions can be wonderful, but in this case I wish I was a stronger man. But I am simply not. Tucker is the only 'son' I currently have. I'm not her to pull at heart strings, I'm just looking for the right answer. My wife has been trying to help me and every professional she's contacted on my behalf has agreed Tucker should be put down.
If you could witness how he looks at me, how he trusts and respects me…how he seeks me out and whines when I leave him even to take the trash out...you might see it differently. I'm all he really has. Perhaps I'm all he's ever had. I just don't think I can personally end his life under any circumstances.
This is an email my wife forwarded to me this morning, resulting from her efforts to help:
"Wayne,
This is a most difficult and sad situation and my heart breaks for your friends. Some dogs have a biogenetic predisposition towards aggression and truly there is little that can be safely and humanely done when running against the genetic grain. I have not found Basenji's to be overly represented for aggression and do not subscribe to "breed specific aggression tendencies". That said, there are families or lines of certain dogs where this can occur with some degree of prediction. Each dog stands alone. Dr. Kathryn Meyer is a highly respected professional and I can't think of anybody other than Texas' A&N Dr. Lore Haug also a certified veterinary behaviorist, who is in as high a standing. Dr. Karen Overall used to be at University of Pa. and she is an esteemed certified veterinary behaviorist but I'm not sure where she is right now and I seriously doubt she would have a differing recommendation than Dr. Meyer. Same of Dr. Haug.
I am a Certified Dog Behavior Consultant and sometimes refer out and seek assistance from folks like Dr. Meyer, Dr. Haug and Dr. Overall. Anything that has to do with "quiet submission" or other dominance based archaic unscientific methods such as CM are definitely not recommended. It is a fact, although a difficult one, that not every dog has the genetic makeup, brain chemistry, personality or temperament (whatever you want to call it) to live appropriately and safely with humans as a companion animal. As sad as this seems, it would be much worse for your friends if their dog were to seriously injure a person. Not only will they have to live with the knowledge they chose to keep a dangerous dog and subjected innocent people to an aggressive attack, but if/when this happens, all choices will be made by animal control who will quarantine him in a municipal shelter and then euthanize him . A more loving and kinder resolution would be for this dogs' people who he knows and loves to take him themselves to their veterinarian where his departure to the Bridge will be peaceful and he feels loved. Dogs do not contemplate nor fear death. My thoughts and heart go out to your friends. Please let me know what happens.
Best wishes,
Katherine Smith"
Once again, I find myself unable to function because I won't accept this situation...
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Oh, this is soooo hard. It is relatively easy for a professional who has seen A LOT of dogs with problems tell a client that the best idea is to euthanize the dog…and it is much harder when you are emotionally invested in the people and the dogs...and almost impossible when it is your own dog.
You have to take responsibility for Tucker...either you find a way to keep him safe in your possession...or you go with him to be euthanized. I am sorry, I know that sounds unbearable..but as you said he loves and trusts you, and as Ms. Smith said, dogs don't contemplate death..all he knows is that you are with him.
If you simply cannot end his life (and I can understand that) you must keep him away from strangers...period. And be aware that he still might bite you or your wife...and confront the fact that may limit your ability to start a family (if that is what you wish) until the situation changes with Tucker. Could you find somewhere else for the aunt to live? It sounds like she would qualify for help and social services...it doesn't sound safe or healthy for anyone for her to live with you. But, that is just one woman's opinion
Tucker could be made to be separated when you have friends over, etc...it may be preferable to you (and him) than no life at all.But I think the bottom line is that you are his human, and it isn't likely that you will find a place for him to live out his life where he will be safe and loved, that isn't with you.
And, I just want to add...it isn't applicable in this situation....but for those that are contemplating adding a puppy to their household...this is just one more reason to buy from a breeder that will take your dog back for WHATEVER reason, at ANY time in the dog's life. In this situation the breeder could take the dog back, try to rehabilitate him, and if that was unsuccessful, do the painful job of taking him to cross the bridge...one of the sad realities of being a breeder also...
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TuckerVA,
I know it is impossible to know how you feel because my situation was a different from yours, but I do know what it is like to love a dog at a level most people cannot understand.
I had to make the painful decision to send my beloved companion Alex to the Rainbow Bridge 2 years ago. Mentally and physically he had deteriorated to the point where he had very little quality of life. However, when he looked up at me with those sad eyes it made it so hard to do what I knew was best for him. I know in my case I was selfish and put the decision off for several weeks longer than I should have.
One thing that made the process easier was I had someone come out to the house to do the actual euthanasia. I was able to hold Alex during the process so he was calm and relaxed, and we got to spend our final moments together. I cried for days afterward, but looking back I know I did the best thing for him. Sometimes doing the best thing for your pet isn't necessarily the best thing for you at the time. However, when you look back at it you'll know you made the right decision.
My prayers are with you during this difficult time. It really takes someone who has gone through this themselves to know the feelings you are experiencing. Whatever the outcome is, my thoughts are with you and Tucker.
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It is obvious that you are going through an emotional hell right now. I feel for you, truly I do, but your emotions have clouded your common sense.
You said:
"If you could witness how he looks at me, how he trusts and respects me…how he seeks me out and whines when I leave him even to take the trash out...you might see it differently. I'm all he really has. Perhaps I'm all he's ever had. I just don't think I can personally end his life under any circumstances."Please re-read what you wrote. Do you honestly feel this dog will live a "happy happy joy joy" life somewhere else? Do you honestly think he is going to become emotionally stable and stop biting people when he is thrust into a different environment with strangers? Look inside your heart. You know what the true answers are.
"I'm not her to pull at heart strings, I'm just looking for the right answer."
Multiple professionals have evaluated the dog and have concluded the dog is a danger. One person ended up in the hospital from one of his bites. IMO, there is only one solution.
I have had to euthanize many animals over the years (predominantly elderly animals) and while the emotional turmoil is difficult for the human, the process itself is very easy for the animal. It truly is a painless and peaceful ending.
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Was he at a BRAT foster before coming to you? If so, I would contact the foster and see if he had these problems there?
Have you had a complete thyroid test done? What about blood tests? Have all the tests been normal?
Does he live with other animals? Is he aggressive to them or dogs he meets when you are walking him?
I would contact Best Friends to see if they could possible help him.
If you have exhausted all your options helping him then you should euthanize him since has biten and will probably bite in the future.
I have had to euthanize some Bs in my own rescue that were aggressive. I hated to do it at the time but now looking back it was the right decision.
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Was he at a BRAT foster before coming to you? If so, I would contact the foster and see if he had these problems there?
Have you had a complete thyroid test done? What about blood tests? Have all the tests been normal?
I agree about the testing. Always check for something physical first to see if anything is going on especially the thyroid.
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Was he at a BRAT foster before coming to you? If so, I would contact the foster and see if he had these problems there?
Have you had a complete thyroid test done? What about blood tests? Have all the tests been normal?
Does he live with other animals? Is he aggressive to them or dogs he meets when you are walking him?
I would contact Best Friends to see if they could possible help him.
I think he came straight out of the home. I think Sharron would know since she handles MA, but I'm not positive. Thyroid panel was normal. Chemical panel was normal. We have one other dog in the house, and they tolerate each other. No major fights and Tucker isn't the one that starts them more than half the time. He does exhibit aggression towards dogs while leashed, but when he's at the park, he doesn't at all unless challenged. I looked at Best Friends today.
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I'm so sorry you're going through this. We lost our own tri boy Tucker last October to liver complications at age 11, and I'm sure your boy is as dear to you as ours was. My one regret was that we did not return to the vets in time to be with him as his passed - his condition went downhill very quickly and he slipped away before we could get back to say goodbye to him.
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TuckerVA, My heart aches for you, but I have to agree with what others have written. Unless by some miracle Best Friends takes him (and he won't live the same "well loved" life he has lived with you), euthanizing is the most reasonable conclusion. Tucker won't know the difference between a blood draw at the vet, and the injection, for him it will be the same and he will peacefully, rapidly, lose consciousness and be at the Bridge. Better if a vet can come to your home.
We have had to help several old or ill dogs over the Bridge, one of us holds and strokes the dog, the other looks into their eyes and soothes them while the shot is given. It is hard, very hard, but we know that the last thing they see is us, and know we love them. We make ourselves stay calm and peaceful, and try and save the tears for later, so they aren't upset. If you are too upset to manage that, it may be simpler for him to go "as usual" to the vet and they will handle it with swift expertise. He will not suffer, I have been with way too many, but I find great comfort in the fact that it is so fast and painless.
Tucker is YOUR first basenji, a symbol of your adulthood and your first "family", I know he means everything to you. You obviously have a wonderful wife who must love him too, but sometimes love just isn't enough to fix serious problems. You have given Tucker years of love and worked with him. Please don't risk more serious injury, possibly resulting in him being taken away by animal control to a stressful shelter. Far better he pass peacefully in your arms. Being adult and responsible sometimes really sucks.
Hugs to you and your wife, and Tucker most of all.
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IMO, this is what you should do. Call your vet, who has seen this b and tell him he is a biter and you need to put him to sleep. please don't stop reading, this is the way to do it for your dog Have the vet give you a pill to get him to be relaxed and asleep when you drive him to the vet. Once you get the pill from the vet, you do the best acting job of your life, and you make his last day wonderful..take off work, do what he loves in the am, have an appt set up with your vet for your boys final trip to them…
Give him a wonderful morning, and then he gets this pill with a nice lunch, take him for a walk, if that is what he loves, I took my boy for a ride in the car, cause that is what he loved...he fell asleep on my lap and woke up in doggie heaven.
SOB! its not easy for any human, but dog's don't project. All he knows is that he had a wonderful day with you, and you then set him free from his issues.
I do this for dogs I can't keep. It works FOR THEM! come home, and we will all cry with you. SOB... -
Sharron is 100%, this is the way to do it, I think I read something like that in a "Dear Abby" years ago and we have only been able to do it once, with a sick boy, other trips have been semi-emergent. It was the most peaceful 'final trip' for the dog, AND for us. We knew his send-off was filled with love. Later, we cried, but we made it a great last day for him, steak for breakfast, rides in the car, this is a very hard think to think about, but if it has to be done, do it right.
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Dogs live in the moment. They just enjoy what we give them. No worries about the future or "stuff". Maybe that is our ultimate gift. Anyway, If I don't have to make an emergency run to the vet for a sick dog, I will always give my dog the memory of the love I have for them.
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Sniff Lemme wipe off my tears…Sharron's idea is beautiful.
I can see from what you have written that you are Tucker's world. There is no greater gift we can give our four legged family than to allow them to trust and love. You have accomplished this.
But if there is one shred of hope, I would go for it. I know there are liabilities with biters and some reliable experts have given their opinion. That said, I'm sure some here will remember Dallas, the Basenji in Georgia who was adopted by one of our former members. She had plenty of challenges with him. Now, he is, to quote her, "an absolute love" who follows her around everywhere, doesn't fight with the other dogs and greets people without aggression. She also had some high obstacles to overcome with her Basenji bitch (once a very appropriate title for her) who now is a laid-back, play with everyone and non-aggressive girl. Some people can work with problem dogs and come out successful. Perhaps there is someone like that for Tucker. I'm just sayin'.
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Honey, we are all with you! We love you, because you love this b so very much. THERE is no way you have to tell us how you hold out hope.
So, Contact Best Friends. I have to tell you, THAT IMO, is this b's best hope, go for it.
IF you can't find that type of group to take your beloved boy, please, for his
BUT more importantly, YOUR peace of mind, give him the Rainbow Bridge. My hope, when I die,is that I can go there and love the dogs who have gone before me.
Hugs, hugs, hugs.
We are all with you and your issue. We want to support.
Hugs, hugs, hugs again.
Honey, none of us get out of this live alive, so, we can only hope that we have a kind death. I am heading toward the bridge as my age numbers get higher so, I know of what I speak. -
I have never had to do anything harder in my life then put down Leo. He was just shy of 3 years old, and the best dog you could ask for 99.9% of the time. He was born at the rescue and had been placed and returned once before he came to us. He had always been randomly aggressive, but we did our best to identify the triggers and avoid them. We talked with behaviorists and trainers and did our best, but knew we were fighting a losing battle. There was no way to identify what set him off. You could take his food away no problem, but if he was finished eating and trying to destroy the food bowl he would try to bite.
The only time he made contact biting was the day we put him down. Something just wasn't wired right, yet we still felt guilty that we were doing the wrong thing. He came to us when he was 10 months old, we only had him for 2 years. I know that the 2 years Leo spent with us were the best years of his life, he had a huge yard and a warm bed to sleep in…he was spoiled rotten. I think when you rescue a dog you feel even more responsible for them because not only did you give them a home, you saved them...you pulled them from a life of uncertainty.
My wife had a hold of Leos collar and he turned and grabbed her hand. She spent 6 hours in the emergency room and 5 months later still has problems using the little finger on her left hand. It was amazing how much damage was done so quickly. I called everybody I could think of that night. I called the basenji rescue we got him from, the trainer, the vet...and everybody said the same thing. We didn't put Leo down because it was the best thing for us, I still miss him every day. It was the the kindest thing we could do for Leo.
I know what you are going through with Tucker is extremely hard, but the years he spent with you are by far the best years of his life. I hope you are able to find someplace for him, but if you can't he won't be alone in the fields on the other side of the bridge.
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Karen at Medfly Brigade Basenji Rescue here in CA keeps the problem dogs she gets. She told me about some pretty aggressive and problem Basenjis that she's worked with over the years successfully, and still does. Maybe you could email her and ask what she thinks. She's been rescuing Basenjis for about 22 years. Here's her email address karen@basenjirescue.com.
