I'm still happy I fond my basenji…
Hello from Edmonton, AB!
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All I have to say is this - she told me point-blank she doesn't test her dogs for fanconi, or hip or eye problems. This hardly seems like the behavior of a responsible breeder, whether or not her dogs are healthy. Past that, I don't know the woman.
Believe it or not, you don't have to have experience as a breeder to be able to tell what to look for, please don't condescend.
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Sharron, all I can say is that he does not have fanconi,,
Here is a quote directly from these postings:
I spoke to Geoff Sampson at Crufts and the KC has no plans to include Fanconi testing as a noted health issue. They don't normally take action until an actual gene is isolated as there is no telling whether it is for a disease or merely a tendency to the disease (as some genes for a tendency to cancer, for example).
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Sharron, all I can say is that he does not have fanconi,,QUOTE]
The OFA site and the Fanconi Linkage tests DO NOT SAY that they have Fanconi… it clearly states that in regards to genetics, they test Prob Affected for Fanconi "genes"... which can mean that have it at present or they have the gene and will prob get Fanconi sometime in the future. Even if it was a direct genetic test, it couldn't say that they "have" it only that they carry the genes to get it. Being late onset, it can begin at most any age... and some even as late of over the age of 10.
And in the US it is not a required test either, but recommended by the Parent Breed Club .... and responsible breeders test their Basenjis "before" breeding. Note also that there are over 3200 tested Basenjis for Fanconi and the results support the test fully, IMO.
Anyone can say "based on my dogs" .... but bottom line is if you don't test, you do not know. And this is for all health testing, not just Fanconi. There are many breeders that thought that Fanconi was not a problem in their particular lines until they started to test and saw all the carriers... if they had continued to breed as they had in the past before the test, they would have Fanconi affected offspring.
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Pat,
if a test result is clear or carrier does this mean that it would still be possible for the Dog to develop Fanconi then ? -
As Pat has stated, anyone who breeds and doesn't know the parents blood results isn't someone who should be selling basenjis. They are just gambling, and dogs and owners will suffer for this.
They can be selling dogs who are ill, and there is just no need to be doing that. -
I know this person is a responsible breeder, who makes her own decisions based on the background of her own line. The dog listed on OFA as having fanconi, does not have Fanconi, in point of fact.
Hi Cori.
I do not know you, nor know anything about you.
BUT, before you start talking about dogs that you know absolutely NOTHING about, I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself.
The way you 'talk' about Kofi on this forum,
basically calls me a liar for having given his name and stating that he tested Fanconi Affected.
"Kofi" is the dog listed on the OFA website.
He is just 4 years old and is NOT spilling sugar YET, but I am not sure where you got your information about him.
I can guarantee you that these results are accurate.
Kofi's owner had this intact male tested at MY request.
He also owns a bitch from me, who we were planning to breed.
Being a responsible owner, Bob tested Kofi.
His results were not favorable, so the dog was neutered to assure us that there would not be a Carrier x Affected breeding.If you have a problem with it, feel free to contact ME off the boards and we can discuss it.
Again, please don't spout information that you are not actually privvy to. -
Sharron, all I can say is that he does not have fanconi,,
Sorry Cori,
but you are totally off your rocker.
Look at the pedigrees.
If you really need it written out in front of you, I can do that too.There are at least two dogs that HAVE to be carriers [Kofi's sire and dam].
They are both in the pedigrees of those litters.
NO ONE can say there is not a probability that there are NOT fanconi affecteds in those litters.
All those sires/dams NEED to be tested.
Don't tell me she doesn't have the money… selling that many pups, she is sure to have it!Ignorance is NOT bliss in this kind of situation.
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This is not a 100% test, only a Marker test. Anything is possible given the statistics, however, I don't believe any dog that has been tested has morphed from Probable Carrier into Fanconi Afflicted. I could be wrong, as we could all be, but so far, the results of the dogs that were tested are carrying their own weight.
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I have a rescue dog at home that tested probably affected. He just turned two in November and he is not spilling sugar at this time. I fully expect him to do so just as my other dogs that did have Fanconi tested probably affected. So far I have not had any problems with the results of the tests I have received on my rescue dogs.
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Hey, I just came across this thread, you want to meet some Basenjis? We live just east of Sherwood Park, we have 3 Basenjis - all rescues.
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That would be wonderful! I can email you if you give me your addy, or you could contact me at raeschuller@hotmail.com and we can arrange something.
Thank you thank you thank you. -
Corion - the quote you mentioned was mine - I am speaking about the UK Kennel Club. We don't have the experience here in Fanconi Syndrome as it is a relatively rare disease in Basnejis in this country.
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Patty, is it because your folks don't test?? or there is REALLY no fanconi?
not trying to be bitch, I am not a breeder, I am just understanding that its everywhere in basenji lines, and if the test is done, its found -
I think thatthe majority of our breeders are testing now but there are still some who don't. The few I know intimately who don't test, to my knowledge, have never had a basenji with Fanconi. Not to say that we haven't got Affected dogs but not many because we have so many fewer Basenjis. For years now the Basenji has not been a popular breed here so registrations are relatively low.
This has always been my puzzle because I've never had a basenji affected with Fanoni and nor anything that could have been fanconi but misdiagnosed as something else. When I had my oldies tested (the test hadn't been available while I was still breeding) I was surpirised to find that one was clear and one a carrier. I must have been breeding carriers or clears only for years! I just don't understand how this is so.
To show the difference between the relative size of the UK and the US Basenji population we currently haven't any in Rescue and for several years had none. In recent years we've had as many as 6 but this is quite rare.
I don't know what our registration figures are for 2009 but if you're interested I can check for you.
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I think thatthe majority of our breeders are testing now but there are still some who don't. The few I know intimately who don't test, to my knowledge, have never had a basenji with Fanconi. Not to say that we haven't got Affected dogs but not many because we have so many fewer Basenjis. For years now the Basenji has not been a popular breed here so registrations are relatively low.
This has always been my puzzle because I've never had a basenji affected with Fanoni and nor anything that could have been fanconi but misdiagnosed as something else. When I had my oldies tested (the test hadn't been available while I was still breeding) I was surpirised to find that one was clear and one a carrier. I must have been breeding carriers or clears only for years! I just don't understand how this is so.
To show the difference between the relative size of the UK and the US Basenji population we currently haven't any in Rescue and for several years had none. In recent years we've had as many as 6 but this is quite rare.
I don't know what our registration figures are for 2009 but if you're interested I can check for you.
No different then many in the US that have been breeding for years only to find out with the DNA test that they have just about all Carriers. Luck of the drawl… when you have a recessive gene. And some of the offspring of those dogs came back as Affected, at least one being in Germany. Many other in the UK tested and found Carriers... one that place a pup here in the US that test Affected...
If you are lucky enough in the "luck of the recessive drawl" to have been breeding Carriers to Clears... and then being lucky enough to take a Clear to a Carrier... not at all hard to understand... but without the test, it would have caught up to many pretty quickly.
And the number of Affected?... I would disagree with you... because Dr. Gonto has said many times that there are a number of Affected in the UK, judging by the number of people that have contacted him. And I am not trying to point fingers, just stating fact because everyone that has a Basenji was/is in the same boat. The best news is that we have a test... and looking at the results in the OFA database they ring true. Yes there are a few that could be questionable.... and with any luck we will soon get a direct test. But right now, this is the best we have and it is a hell of a lot better then having nothing before the linkage test came out.
Again.. all IMO
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"The few I know intimately who don't test, to my knowledge, have never had a basenji with Fanconi"
Patty, im sorry but i think that is a wee bit misleading - it is well documented that that one of this particular breeders dogs has sired not only Prob Affected in the UK(owned by a forum member who is actually sensible, responsible and tests her stock), but i understand also (from a dog the breeder exported) dogs who not only tested prob affected, but actually have developed Fanconi.
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Tanza - I agree with you and thanks for your comments. Yes, agreed we have been lucky considering the number of 'carrier' results form the test.
When Dr Gonto gave a seminar on Fanconi (prior to the Linkage test, of course) here, he did say say, as I remember that he had had 9 past and present. To me although very tragic, this is quite a low number compared with others suffering or dying from other inherited diseases. Perhaps that is the same in the US? Only yourselves will know. We are just lucky in that there is a linkage test and hopefully soon, a 'proper' test to enable us to eliminate Fanconi Syndrome. We don't seem to be so lucky with other diseases.
At present I don't have the current figures of tested 'affected' in the UK but will query this with our health coordinator.
Scott, I haven't mentioned names nor would I ever do so as its against my principles to spread any rumours. You are jumping to the conclusion that I meant a certain person as you mentioned someone on this Forum who has an affected sired by his/her dog , if I'm correct. I did refer, however, to some who I know/have known intimately!
However, as I also said there must be some of us (as also in the US) who have been fortunate enough to apparently have only ever bred carriers to clears for years! Personally I prefer to choose older sires and this could be one of the factors. The KC in its wisdom has also now prevented us from waiting to put bitches in whelp in later years, necessitating early starts for their first litters.
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Patty, I apologise if i have picked you up incorrectly. Its just that there are so few litters born in the UK since the test was made available that its very easy to see who are those who have bred the small handful of litters without testing parents
Scott
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Scott, no need to apologise!
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Scott, I'm not sure if it's me your talking about with the Prob Affected dog from a sire of a breeder who doesn't test. If it is, it's not a problem. I had that litter before the test was made available. I also know of a litter born late last year, a Ind x Ind mating, which has produced a Prob Affected pup. IMO there was no need for this mating to take place as it's not worth the risk. I am now searching hard for a Clear dog for my carrier bitch but it's not easy.
I have compiled a spreadsheet of all UK stock. I am getting my details from the OFA website and noting all UK dogs and whether they are Clear, Carrier, Ind or Aff. It is interesting to see the percentage of Affected stock. So far, and I have not updated my list for a couple of months due to the swab shortage etc, there is about 7% of all TESTED stock showing as Prob Affected. I do not have the list to hand so this is from memory.
