I cannot imagine committing to buy a puppy without seeing the animal and if possible the sire and dam. OTOH, a rescue (or adoption of an older dog) is a different thing. My last two Basenjis came to me sight unseen, and turned out to be wonderful dogs, but the breeders I got them from wanted to place their dogs in an experienced Basenji home, and I only paid the cost of getting the dogs to me. One came by air, one was personally transported to me by his breeder. If she hadn't been happy with what she found I expect she would have taken him back with her when she left. I also had to commit to return him if ever I couldn't keep him. Good breeders care about where their dogs end up.
Sad
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AJ's Human…while you might have seen it in the horse world, for the year I've been going to shows, I HAVEN'T seen it once. So to say that "many show people are like this" IMHO is a gross generalization...when was the last time you went to a dog show?
In fact, I have seen quite the opposite - professional handlers doting on the dogs they show. The breeders & professional handlers I've met, treat their dogs (or the dogs they show) the same way loving pets are treated.
The only story I have heard about a breeder mishandling their dog after it was shown was written up by the AKC rep that was ringside - I think they were put on some sort of probation.
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"Many" means different things to different people. Perhaps I should have said "too many" instead. IMO, 1 person treating any animal like this is too many.
I have seen it in kennels and (with horses) at shows away from the ring. Nickels in a sock comes immediately to mind.
If everyone with show animals and kennels were as loving with the animals as we would like them to be, perhaps the "imperfect" ones wouldn't end up in rescue so much.
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I would have to agree with Renault on this one. We have been attending quite a few dog shows in the last year. While Jason photographs, I have nothing to do but watch. I do a lot of people watching, as well as dog watching. Almost all the interactions I see are quite good. I've not seen anything objectionable, really, except for very occasionally people not paying close attention to the dog on the other end of the lead (while they are waiting to go in the ring.) The professional handlers I have met have been quite nice, to the dogs and the people they meet.
I can tell you Jason has a wonderful picture of Erin Roberts and Blade, (actually he has several good ones) where you can clearly see the adoration they have for one another, both dog and human. You can look them up they are a very well known team and I've seen them on tv several times on the televised dog shows. They are really something to see, but honestly, that is what I saw from most people at the shows we went to, of course they were all in the midwest, maybe it is different elsewhere, but it is definitely not accurate to say a "lot" of show people are that way. None of the ones I've met or observed have been.
Miranda
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Some people are rough on their dogs like this guy. I've seen people walking their dogs constantly yanking up on the leash, sometimes in anger because the dog won't walk perfectly at their side. Poor thing never even gets to stop and smell.
I can say that at a show, when the dog is on the show lead, you will not see handles (be them hired professional or owners that show their own dogs) let them stop and smell…. That is what makes the difference to the dog.. the show lead, they behave one way on that lead then they do on a walking lead or flexi... and that goes for any dog that I show...
My dogs are my pets first, but in the show ring (or getting ready to show) they are expected to act different and behave... not that they always read that book...And Rita Jean, if it really bothered you that much, you should have looked up who the dog was and the owner, if you remember the arm band number you can find out when the catalog is on line who the dog was.. and you don't always have to buy the catalog, you could ask someone that is around the ring that see with one to take a quick peek and also at the secretary table where you get your armband number, typically they have one you can look at. And it this was a professional handler and his handling bothered you, contact the owner of the dog... if this is his/her typical nature, not going to do much good to say anything.
However to AJ's Human that said, I also totally agree with Renault on this this is not something that "normal" for the show ring (and I showed horses for 25yrs before go to showing dogs)...
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I can say that at a show, when the dog is on the show lead, you will not see handles (be them hired professional or owners that show their own dogs) let them stop and smell…. That is what makes the difference to the dog.. the show lead, they behave one way on that lead then they do on a walking lead or flexi... and that goes for any dog that I show...
My dogs are my pets first, but in the show ring (or getting ready to show) they are expected to act different and behave... not that they always read that book...That said there is no excuse for mistreating a dog, any dog....
And Rita Jean, if it really bothered you that much, you should have looked up who the dog was and the owner, if you remember the arm band number you can find out when the catalog is on line who the dog was.. and you don't always have to buy the catalog, you could ask someone that is around the ring that see with one to take a quick peek and also at the secretary table where you get your armband number, typically they have one you can look at. And it this was a professional handler and his handling bothered you, contact the owner of the dog... if this is his/her typical nature, not going to do much good to say anything.
Correct, in the ring I can perfectly understand. These are just middle class people taking their dog on a walk on the street. It's not just a slight correction. It's a constant anger jerk.
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Correct, in the ring I can perfectly understand. These are just middle class people taking their dog on a walk on the street. It's not just a slight correction. It's a constant anger jerk.
Yes that is true, but we were talking about show dogs… and sometimes people who do not show get the wrong impression about handlers, professional or owner handled
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Pat while you maybe correct as what I could have done or should have done I was not sure as what to do. My son also seen this ask me if what he did was correct? We talked that over but anyway I was not sure what to do. Do I make someone mad for speaking out we are new at this. I must say it did not feel good to see him treat dog like junk. He was just sitting on his rear end doing nothing. Now all this has been said and I know should I ever see this happen again I will just go to the AKC rep and tell them the number and the dog and let them take care of it.
I should hope to never see this man again or hope to see nothing again. We did walk around and looked at all people, dogs and everyone was good to there dogs. The man with his whippets was like us they even slept with him. He told us all about them they are his pets as well as his show dogs.
Enough said I learned something. I do not buy book as not sure I really would need it. Thank you for the imput Pat.Rita Jean
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That is the best choice, report the problem to the AKC Rep.. that is why they are there… And another reason is that you do not want to get into an altercation with a person that might be a hot head... that would not be good for anyone,
I do have a question, however, when you say "kick" the dog back... was it really a kick with the shoe, or did the person "knee" the dog in the chest (using his knee) when he jump up?
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I've seen a couple handlers in that area that I would not let within 10 feet of my dog,
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Pat when the dog went to put his paw on his leg he kicked his back legs out from under him. Now had he just pushed the dog down with his hand or I can see taking the knee and lightly pushing down ok but not his way. As I said he was unhappy with the dog all ready the statment "if he was to pee in ring one more time". No I need no hot head but I know what to do now.
Rita Jean
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ug, how awful. I don't understand that at all. even if the handler's only/foremost concern is winning, that is not how you get the best out of a dog.
In happier news, I'm thinking about going out for the Sunflower cluster in Witchita in the spring. Will I get to meet you? Depending on a few things, I may even bring my brindlewonderkid, Digital. Certainly Zest will come with.
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agilebaseni Our Insurance lady just last week was talking to us about Wichita in Spring. We might get to go will stay in touch and let you know as it get's closer. I would love to go.
Rita Jean
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RJ - It's a way fun show. conformation, agility, lure coursing. Just have to decide what to enter. <gg>But it also has the Art Show at the Dogshow. Fabulous stuff there! You'll love it. (I keep thinking one of these days I'll enter a woolie sculpture at the art show.)
Here's stuff from last year (just for added enticement)
http://www.artshowatthedogshow.com/2009_winners.html</gg> -
The Art is to die for and you should enter one of your woolie's those are really neat. Not everyone has one and I still want one. Have to do a thread on here and ask everyone what would be the best and see what happens look out. Our Ins lady wants us to get Jaycee going in lure coursing her daughter has shown dogs said she would help us I am not sure still thinking.
Keep it up I will be saying long before spring yes we are going. Not really a bad drive for us so more than likely we will be going. We said we were going to try to stay fairly close to home and that's not far.
By way thanks for RJ I grew up with that used RJ all way in school as I got older I went back to what my grandparents always called me Rita Jean the good thing about them using both names I never knew when I was in trouble LOL…
Rita Jean
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Wow, that art was amazing, beautiful pictures and sculptures…but yes, you've got to enter one of your Woolies, the are exquisite..truly divine..I want one..
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@AJs:
"Many" means different things to different people. Perhaps I should have said "too many" instead. IMO, 1 person treating any animal like this is too many.
I have seen it in kennels and (with horses) at shows away from the ring. Nickels in a sock comes immediately to mind.
If everyone with show animals and kennels were as loving with the animals as we would like them to be, perhaps the "imperfect" ones wouldn't end up in rescue so much.
Well, this is kind of a double edge sword argument. If breeders kept all the dogs they bred regardless of whether they were show quality or not, there wouldn't be any nice quality pets for people who "just want a pet"; and thier homes would be overflowing with too many dogs.
If they place dogs in loving homes so that they can be the center of attention, instead of one of many in the breeders home, they are accused of getting rid of the "imperfect" ones…
Responsible breeders would NEVER place a dog in rescue because it turned out to not be show quality; they find a loving home for the dog where it can be a cherished pet, regardless of show standards.
I can speak as a purchaser of show dogs who has never sent a dog away for turning out not to show quality. We have had four of our seven not turn out for various reasons. One died, one went back to her breeder because she hated all the other dogs here, and two still happily live here
Some breeders wouldn't make the same choices, but all responsible breeders would make sure the dogs have a happy home either way. -
Don't get me wrong…I wasn't knocking responsible breeders who carefully home their dogs with loving families. I wouldn't expect a kennel to hold every dog they breed. That would get out of hand in a hurry.
My complaint is when folks get dogs solely for show and when the tail grows wrong or something else happens, they get rid of it because it is no longer worth their time, effort or money. Unfortunately for the dog, it usually happens after the animal has an emotional stake in the relationship and then has to start all over again. The dog never understands why they are no longer wanted. That's gotta hurt.
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@Rita:
Pat while you maybe correct as what I could have done or should have done I was not sure as what to do. My son also seen this ask me if what he did was correct? We talked that over but anyway I was not sure what to do. Do I make someone mad for speaking out we are new at this. I must say it did not feel good to see him treat dog like junk. He was just sitting on his rear end doing nothing. Now all this has been said and I know should I ever see this happen again I will just go to the AKC rep and tell them the number and the dog and let them take care of it.
I should hope to never see this man again or hope to see nothing again. We did walk around and looked at all people, dogs and everyone was good to there dogs. The man with his whippets was like us they even slept with him. He told us all about them they are his pets as well as his show dogs.
Enough said I learned something. I do not buy book as not sure I really would need it. Thank you for the imput Pat.Rita Jean
Here is my opinion…take it or leave it
There are crappy pet owners....just like there are crappy parents. One time I was stressing out over how an aquaintance was parenting. As I was talking to another friend (also a child psychologist) she said "Are the kids healthy, clean, growing, happy enough?"...Yes..."well, some people are crappy parents, but if they are doing those things, the kids will probably turn out okay...you can't make everything perfect for everyone"This handler had an attitude that you (and I) don't like...but he wasn't abusing his dog, or starving his dog. He was just a jerk. That isn't representative of show people...but there are plenty of people like that in the world. This is a risk that people face when they leave their dog in the care of someone else...so you have to choose carefully.
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@Rita:
Pat when the dog went to put his paw on his leg he kicked his back legs out from under him. Now had he just pushed the dog down with his hand or I can see taking the knee and lightly pushing down ok but not his way. As I said he was unhappy with the dog all ready the statment "if he was to pee in ring one more time". No I need no hot head but I know what to do now.
Rita Jean
That is an old-style dog training technique (for lack of a better word)….
