Wonderful news Debra. I'm very happy for you. 🙂
Results Are In
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Pedro,
Please read this carefully. Tanza & Lvoss have been doing this a long time. They know what they are talking about. I've had basenjis for 3 years now, and I feel I have done a fair amount of research and learning about basenjis. Lvoss & Tanza have both seen me post a lot on this forum and grow and learn, and neither one of them has ever been mean to me, despite my first two basenjis being backyard breeder (same as a petstore) basenjis. In fact, when I found out about Fanconi & another responsible breeder on this same forum was able to tell me that my dog came from a line with fanconi in it, Tanza personally e-mailed back & forth with me, reassuring me and helping me keep my head through the wait. She also provided me with a contact phone number to call when my boy's results were taking longer than my girl's results.
I can guarantee that if I lived closer to Tanza or Lvoss & asked them to mentor me, they would in a heartbeat. If I expressed an interest in breeding, they would both be more than willing to share with me and teach me any and all knowledge they have. BUT they would also give me the harsh realities & truths & questioning that they are giving you, even though they already sort of know me. They TRULY do care about THE BREED AS A WHOLE. If they did not care about the breed, they would not be on this forum answering the mundane repetitive and sometimes stupid questions that the newbies (myself included) ask on a daily basis.
Believe me Pedro, they are looking out for the interests of the breed as a whole, first and foremost. I don't know if you remember when the 101 Dalmations movie came out a few years ago, but a horrible thing happened to Dalmations as a result of that movie. All of a sudden, everybody wanted a Dalmation. Lots of people decided they could make money selling dalmation puppies, and they were right. They made money without doing showing or health testing. They just bred dalmations to dalmations to make more dalmations without regard to conformation or health. The breed as a whole suffered; dalmations were born with poor temperaments, horrible health problems, and ended up in kill shelters in huge numbers when uneducated people who just bought a "cute puppy like the one in the movie" realized they were in over their heads with a live animal that required caring for. Lvoss and Tanza do not want to see this happen to basenjis. So the more they can help educate potential breeders, the better off basenjis are.
Just so you know, I was once idealistic about breeding, too. I got two backyard breeder dogs, and although I knew I wouldn't be breeding those two together or breeding anytime in the near future, I wanted to learn about conformation and health testing before I decided to spay or neuter either of my dogs. Once I realized how much I have yet to learn, I immediately spayed my girl. I realized quality basenjis and good mentors who will help me will always exist, so there was no reason to consider breeding my current dog. So I spayed her and have a wonderful pet.
Now I'm at a new place in my life. After researching more and waiting for the perfect situation, I managed to find a show quality dog from a responsible breeder. I may not ever breed her, BUT if I do decide to breed her someday, her breeder, her sire's breeder, and another local breeder are all willing to help me and guide me and provide information about her full background. I know I don't ever have to worry about questions with health or pedigree, because I can talk to any one of these breeders anytime.
Nobody on here is trying to make you feel like your dog is a crappy dog. They are trying to teach you the difference between a good breeding decision and a poor breeding decision. Its like any hobby. Just because you own a set of golf clubs does not make you a pro golfer. You have to learn and practice and practice and practice and work hard and invest a lot of time and money into it. Maybe one day in the distant future you might be able to make it to the Masters, but in the meantime, if you are not a pro golfer, it doesn't make you a bad person. You could be a great mom, a wonderful friend, an amazing volunteer at a hospital, etc etc, you just aren't a pro golfer. Yes, you could breed your dog, but why? What does he have to offer the breed? Does he have the world's best temperament? Does he fit the standard more perfectly than any other basenji that has ever lived? Does he have great health coupled with decent conformation and great temperament? Or is he just a dog that you love more than the sun and moon? I'm hoping this comment won't offend anybody, but just look at people. All people can technically make babies, but does that mean all people should just because they can?
I hope this makes sense. I think in your rush to be defensive, you are overlooking what people are really trying to say here. They are looking out for the breed's best interests first, and your best interests second. It seems from your posts that you don't have a lot of time or money to spare, and just like with parenting, it is a punishment to the dog (or child) if you don't have resources to devote to their upbringing.
I'm not trying to lecture or judge, and neither are Tanza or Lvoss. But it is not a bad idea to just neuter your current dog regardless of health testing, and then ask them to start mentoring you. It is worth the wait, the time and the effort you put into it, I promise. Some day you will get a truly quality dog and perhaps you will breed it. You will see the difference between a petstore dog and a dog from a responsible breeder. When I got my first basenji, I thought conformation was stupid and pointless, too. Looking back, he is the ugliest basenji I've ever seen. He's a great dog and I wouldn't go back to change the decision to get him for all the gold in the world, but his type of ugly does not need to be spread. He's also a Fanconi carrier.
Tanza & Lvoss really are both trying to help you. This post is just food for thought; it is not meant to upset you. -
hi, i guess your right!but i just don't get what is the difference between and show basenji and a petshop basenji!!??? they look the same to me!!!!!!!!!!!. sorry taz, & lovss!!. i know your trying to help me!!, i just dont'get the difference between the basenji's!!. please feel free to help me more!!. and please don't get me wrong , i do truely love the breed, he is my first, and i have had him for 3 yrs; now and still learning things about them!!. but i would like to get another one for a play mate instead of taken him to the dog park!!. if you know or find anyone that has one kinda cheap, a blk& wht female, please let me know & i will get my boy and the girl fixed!!. just need a play mate for him one like him!, he's picky around other tepys of dogs!! is that common too!!!!!?> thanks guys your really cool people here!!!!!!!!!> tas&lovss how long have u guys been doing this ??.
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How many basenjis have you met and spent significant time with? Superficially, all basenjis should look pretty much the same, that is whole point of "breed" but when a person spends time around lots of different basenjis, you can start to see the finer points of breed type and the differences even between well bred lines really start to jump out at you. Differences can be in conformation, temperament, and/or health and some may be fairly insignificant and others are huge quality of life issues. As has been stated before some of these even very significant differences like health aren't often noticed by owners until their dogs are older 5+ years old. Poor conformation can lead to dogs breaking down physically but again that isn't going to be seen until the dog is older and whether the owners notice will really depend on the lifestyle of the dog.
I have known dogs who were Fanconi Affected, PRA Affected, Dysplastic. I have also known dogs who have broken down as they aged and developed severe arthritis because of their structural faults.
I would urge you to take a look at this site on evaluating puppies, http://www.geocities.com/rugosab/ConformationPage.htm
Can you see the differences between the puppies in the Virtual Puppy Evaluation? Which would be your pick puppy and why?
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probly girl$ or bot !. there not al strech out in there standing. but ththey all look healthy!!!!.what ones would you pick and why>?
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girl 4 and bot 1.
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Sorry, but there is no girl 4.
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sorry girl 2 and boy 2 or 3.
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Carrie, that was a great post
But sometimes the best information still falls on deaf ears.This thread makes me think that someone is trying to rile people up.
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This thread makes me think that someone is trying to rile people up.
I got the same idea, but I thought that anybody who has ever felt "attacked" on this forum, could benefit from the different perspective. I liked the golf analogy haha.
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Carrie, that was a great post
But sometimes the best information still falls on deaf ears.This thread makes me think that someone is trying to rile people up.
I agree however, I think we have all kept our "heads" with the response…:)
And Carrie, I agree that was a great post (blush)
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I agree however, I think we have all kept our "heads" with the response…:)
And Carrie, I agree that was a great post (blush)
Absolutely, Pat…a very civil thread...I have had to sit on my hands
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but i would like to get another one for a play mate instead of taken him to the dog park!!. if you know or find anyone that has one kinda cheap, a blk& wht female, please let me know & i will get my boy and the girl fixed!!. just need a play mate for him one like him!, he's picky around other tepys of dogs!! is that common too!!!!!?
If you don't want to pay for a basenji from a breeder, and you just want a playmate, you could rescue a BRAT dog. BRAT basenjis are cheaper than a basenji from a breeder and are already spayed or neutered and up to date on shots. However, they are not health tested, you may never know where that dog came from and what kind of crazy temperament or health issues it may have.
The advantages of shelling out so much for a basenji from a breeder include: lifelong support, the breeder will take the basenji back if it doesn't work out in your home, and full disclosure of health issues. Responsible breeders are also always happy to find a home that is willing to show, lure course, do agility, etc, so they will be more than happy to teach you and mentor you in new activities.
My first two were cheap ($400), but I don't know anything about them other than the Fanconi status (which I did myself). Lola is not even AKC registered, so even if I wanted to, I can't show her. I can't even do research on my own through the basenji pedigree database because Lola's dam isn't on there.
It was well worth paying double for Callie (which is average price for a good quality, well bred basenji). I know about her pedigree, and her health. I'm also in contact with not only Callie's breeder but also Callie's sire's breeder and Callie's dam's breeder. So I can keep up with Callie's grandparents as well, and if any weird health issues appear, then I can look out for those in her. Just like with any purchase, you usually get what you pay for. You're not going to find a brand new BMW, fully loaded for $300, nor will you pay $50,000 for a 1998 Toyota Corolla. -
I agree however, I think we have all kept our "heads" with the response…:)
And Carrie, I agree that was a great post (blush)
I've been thinking the same thing. I can tell from over here that you and Lisa probably have headaches from the effort. I think everything has been very nice and civil.
And thanks, Tanza, both for the compliment and for all your wisdom and help through the last couple years
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hi guys !. what do you guys mean by someone is trying to rile people up!?? maybe people on hear need to be a little more understanding when other's come on here to get or ask question's and not be mean!!. like the remark from the one that said that, even the best information still falls on deaths ear!!. thats'mean to say!!. because i know your refuren to me and the only reason i got on here was aome advise from a top breeder to ask question! and she did tell me there are some mean people on here ! and she was right!!.i want to know why are there people on here being mean to otheres just for asking some questions!!. i can pull soome people here that are selling puppies that aren't even fanconi tested and there doing it for the money and only for the money!!. THAT'S NOT COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
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i dont'know why you people on here even get mad when someone new ask question !, isn't that what this site is sbout , for peole with basenji's to LEARN MORE ABOUT THEM!!!!.
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hi guys !. what do you guys mean by someone is trying to rile people up!?? maybe people on hear need to be a little more understanding when other's come on here to get or ask question's and not be mean!!. like the remark from the one that said that, even the best information still falls on deaths ear!!. thats'mean to say!!. because i know your refuren to me and the only reason i got on here was aome advise from a top breeder to ask question! and she did tell me there are some mean people on here ! and she was right!!.i want to know why are there people on here being mean to otheres just for asking some questions!!. i can pull soome people here that are selling puppies that aren't even fanconi tested and there doing it for the money and only for the money!!. THAT'S NOT COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
And these are not the people responding to you. (ones that do not test) It is the responsibe breeders that are responding
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hi guys !. what do you guys mean by someone is trying to rile people up!??
Pedro, there is some frustration on the forum of late. This is the time of year when puppies are ready to go home, and a lot of irresponsible breeders and new puppy owners with petstore puppies come onto the forum to ask the same questions over and over. They are normally just uneducated and naive, but its frustrating to the long time breeders on here to deal with this every year. They know the majority of those puppies will live frustrating lives because their new owners don't know what they've gotten themselves into, and a lot of those puppies will end up shuffled around between owners and shelters until they land in a BRAT foster home or a kill shelter.
Some of your innocent questions almost come across as somebody playing a prank and trying to provoke people. And even if the people come across to you as mean, there is still a lot of valuable information they are trying to convey to you. If they were truly mean, I doubt they'd waste the time trying to educate you. They really are trying to help, in their "mean" way, I promise. -
i dont'know why you people on here even get mad when someone new ask question !, isn't that what this site is sbout , for peole with basenji's to LEARN MORE ABOUT THEM!!!!.
The problem is you are asking the same question over and over… and that is why should you not breed your dog. We have given you all the reasons why you would be better of keeping your current Basenji as a loved pet and if interesed in showing/breeding find a mentor near you and learn about the breed.
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hi guys !. what do you guys mean by someone is trying to rile people up!?? maybe people on hear need to be a little more understanding when other's come on here to get or ask question's and not be mean!!. like the remark from the one that said that, even the best information still falls on deaths ear!!. thats'mean to say!!. because i know your refuren to me and the only reason i got on here was aome advise from a top breeder to ask question! and she did tell me there are some mean people on here ! and she was right!!.i want to know why are there people on here being mean to otheres just for asking some questions!!. i can pull soome people here that are selling puppies that aren't even fanconi tested and there doing it for the money and only for the money!!. THAT'S NOT COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
I said that because people are repeatedly answering your questions, and you are not listening to the answers. Mean people? Really…everybody who has answered you has put a lot of effort and thought into their responses, without insulting you or your dog. Mean would be to totally ignore you, and write you off as someone trying to stir up arguments.
Who here, posting regularly on this board, responding to this thread is breeding puppies and not fanconi testing? I am curious...
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Numerous people have said this to you and I am saying it again, PLEASE READ THE POSTS CAREFULLY. The statement that was made is that some advice falls on DEAF ears. Most people who respond to posts begin feel that advice has fallen on deaf ears when the person who asked the question continues to ask the same question seemingly expecting the answer change. The post was also about forum threads in general. Many people come here not for advice but for validation and so when they do not get the answer they want they just keep asking the question hoping to find someone willing to validate the decision they have already made. That would be deaf ears.
