The book on basenjis…..

[Maya]

@basi:

It's a nightmare with the males isn't it:rolleyes:
Because we are a numericaly small breed we often have breeds in the ring before us and after and you can tell that there has been a bitch in season in the ring because they just have their noses to the ground. Also at open shows where the classes are ususally mixed it can be even worse:rolleyes:

I'm hoping Belle stays a once a year girl.

We were at an Open show yesterday (Maya went along as Official Cheerleader") and the pugs were the second breed in the ring. Im pretty sure there had been an in season bitch in the ring before us as Jovi behaved like a complete monster :rolleyes: And he's usually pretty good!! Couldn't get him to concentrate at all, nose to the ground and just really, really distracted. And he's only a pup and never been used at stud!!!

[lvoss]

I suppose it depends on the male. My boy Nicky has always shown better with girls in season around. He has a reason to strut his stuff I guess. He stands taller, gaits nicer, just pretty much screams, "Hey girls, look at me!"

As for a higher risk for infection, I really don't think I have heard of any correlation with attending shows with an in season bitch and an increased occurence of pyometra. It is common practice in the United States to show girls in season and often nearly all the girls at the BCOA Nationals are in season either because they were when they got there or they were brought in by everyone else.

[basi]

@lvoss:

I suppose it depends on the male. My boy Nicky has always shown better with girls in season around. He has a reason to strut his stuff I guess. He stands taller, gaits nicer, just pretty much screams, "Hey girls, look at me!"

As for a higher risk for infection, I really don't think I have heard of any correlation with attending shows with an in season bitch and an increased occurence of pyometra. It is common practice in the United States to show girls in season and often nearly all the girls at the BCOA Nationals are in season either because they were when they got there or they were brought in by everyone else.

God i'm glad I don't show in the states then:eek: It's not just pyo, there are other infections that they can be open to and I will never risk it for the sake of a prize card. Also when my bitch is in season (well until she was spayed) she loses her show sparkle so would be a waste of time anyway.

[Maya]

@lvoss:

I suppose it depends on the male. My boy Nicky has always shown better with girls in season around. He has a reason to strut his stuff I guess. He stands taller, gaits nicer, just pretty much screams, "Hey girls, look at me!"

As for a higher risk for infection, I really don't think I have heard of any correlation with attending shows with an in season bitch and an increased occurence of pyometra. It is common practice in the United States to show girls in season and often nearly all the girls at the BCOA Nationals are in season either because they were when they got there or they were brought in by everyone else.

There doesnt really have to be any hard and fast proven correlation of infection in bitches shown in season for me. The fact that whilst in season the risk of picking up an infection is far higher, and the fact that many, many people will take sick dogs to show is enough to put me off showing an in season bitch. Would rather rule out the risk as much as possible Its only a show afterall, i dont think a prize card should ever be put above a dogs health!

Basi - never mind showing in the states, i wouldn't wanna judge over there :p Yuk!

[basi]

@Maya:

Basi - never mind showing in the states, i wouldn't wanna judge over there :p Yuk!

Too true! eeeww

[Quercus]

@lvoss:

I suppose it depends on the male. My boy Nicky has always shown better with girls in season around. He has a reason to strut his stuff I guess. He stands taller, gaits nicer, just pretty much screams, "Hey girls, look at me!"

As for a higher risk for infection, I really don't think I have heard of any correlation with attending shows with an in season bitch and an increased occurence of pyometra. It is common practice in the United States to show girls in season and often nearly all the girls at the BCOA Nationals are in season either because they were when they got there or they were brought in by everyone else.

Ditto…Querk has never been any more challenging than normal when girls are in heat at a show. I think he sparkles *more I agree with Lisa, I have never heard of any increased risk of pyo from showing an in season girl.

My girls do seem to not show as well during their *first heat (sometimes at the National) but after that they are the same as all other times.

[Quercus]

@Maya:

There doesnt really have to be any hard and fast proven correlation of infection in bitches shown in season for me. The fact that whilst in season the risk of picking up an infection is far higher, and the fact that many, many people will take sick dogs to show is enough to put me off showing an in season bitch. Would rather rule out the risk as much as possible Its only a show afterall, i dont think a prize card should ever be put above a dogs health!

Basi - never mind showing in the states, i wouldn't wanna judge over there :p Yuk!

Uh..well…ya get kinda used to girls in season, when you have girls in season...it isn't that big a deal. My girls hardly shed any blood after the first day or so...particularly after their first heat (it seems heavier then).

I think the pyo because of being out and about might be akin to when human girls were told not to bathe or swim during their periods. Seems like it *might make sense..but in reality doesn't really matter. As far as pyo..it is a bacterial infection...a bitch is no more likely to run into bacteria at a show, than she is in your own back yard...it is everywhere....

Either way, there are people who choose not to show in heat bitches here in the US, and there are people who have males that go nuts, and they complain about bitches in heat, and there are those of us that just do what seems to work for that individual dog. It all seems to work out.

[Maya]

I own 7 bitches, 5 of them entire, and i still dont think its right to show them in season. Just my opinion But then, its very much frowned upon here anyway, different attitudes i guess. When i have judged, i've never had a bitch in season to go over, i would not be overly pleased if i did :rolleyes:

There are plenty of other infections other than pyo. I dont think me or Basi mentioned pyo so i dont know where that has come from :p

[lvoss]

Could you elaborate on what infections an in season bitch would be more at risk for than one not in season other than pyo?

[Quercus]

@Maya:

I own 7 bitches, 5 of them entire, and i still dont think its right to show them in season. Just my opinion But then, its very much frowned upon here anyway, different attitudes i guess. When i have judged, i've never had a bitch in season to go over, i would not be overly pleased if i did :rolleyes:

There are plenty of other infections other than pyo. I dont think me or Basi mentioned pyo so i dont know where that has come from :p

That's the beauty of freedom…you do what you want, I'll do what I want

I am sure I am the one who brought up pyo, since it is the most common uterine infection. It doesn't really matter...you have plenty of reasons you don't support taking a bitch out in estrous, and that is fine. No hard feelings!

[Maya]

@lvoss:

Could you elaborate on what infections an in season bitch would be more at risk for than one not in season other than pyo?

I am no vet so i am fairly sure i do not know the names of many infections. But i do know that a bitch can pick up what at first can be a fairly non-threatening bacterial infection which can then lead to pyo if not treated. Why risk that?

After a very brief google search i found this article by someone who, i believe, is a vet, and talks about a number of bacteria and why they believe bitches in season shouldn't be shown (it also related to puppies and mating but im sure some in-season bitches that are shown will be mated also):

http://www.dogsworldwide.com/drdog/contributions/vb2.htm

And this one about an infection i've not heard of that sounds serious, like Toxic Shock Syndrome in people:

http://www.gdhfa.org/CanineStreptococcalTSS.htm

Relevant passage:

_RISK FACTORS

Important risk factors in the transmission of CSTSS seem to be:

Crowded conditions, such as racing Greyhound kennels and conformation dog shows, especially inside and in the fall and winter months. Conformation dogs are at higher risk than dogs entered only in performance events.

Hygiene factors, including sharing food and water bowls. Handlers and judges may transmit the infection by examining/handling multiple dogs sequentially without washing their hands. Equipment, such as muzzles used in racing dogs should be kept clean and/or not shared by multiple dogs.

Close physical contact: Although "social sniffing" and running with an infected but asymptomatic dog is reasonably safe, jaw-wrestling and play-fighting is not. Sharing a run with an infected dog is an important risk factor, as well as water-bowls, bedding, etc. Crate-swapping and sharing is high risk. Licking of genitalia of bitch in season by infected male is another high risk factor. Dogs kenneled in adjacent runs are not at high risk. Dogs licking the face of a human with a "strep throat" or cellulitis or of a child with impetigo are definitely at risk._

Im sure theres much more to be found with some digging but im at work so dont have time lol

You never know what infections and diseases other dogs may have, and in season bitches are more at risk of picking up infections so that is my reason for not showing them, or walking them where other dogs may be/at busy times etc

[lvoss]

Reading the full article, conformation dogs are at greater risk not because of in season bitches but because judges that check bites and do not wash hands or use hand sanitizer between dogs. In fact, they state the most common mode of transmittance is through the mouth. Your dogs are risk for this anytime a judge puts their hands in the mouth of another dog and then in the mouth of yours without sanitizing their hands which is probably a far more likely scenario then it being transmitted to or from an in season bitch.

[Maya]

@lvoss:

Reading the full article, conformation dogs are at greater risk not because of in season bitches but because judges that check bites and do not wash hands or use hand sanitizer between dogs. In fact, they state the most common mode of transmittance is through the mouth. Your dogs are risk for this anytime a judge puts their hands in the mouth of another dog and then in the mouth of yours without sanitizing their hands which is probably a far more likely scenario then it being transmitted to or from an in season bitch.

Oh of course, which is why i much prefer to show my dogs teeth myself if the judge does not wash hands between dogs

However, as you can see in the passage i highlighted, that particular infection is particularly at risk of transmission when a bitch is in season.

But, you could argue the ifs and buts of it all year and never agree. We all do what we believe to be right. I personally cannot understand putting a dog at any increased risk, no matter how miniscule that increase is, for the sake of a show. But it is down to each person to decide that for themselves. Each to their own.

Having had a friend who's young dog had pyo (and died from it) which started as a bacterial urinary infection i believe, i know first hand how awful it is. The risk is just too great for me, my girls are all far too precious

[lvoss]

But the part that you highlighted about in season bitches is not likely to occur at a dog show. I do not allow other dogs at shows to lick my dogs nor do I allow my dogs to lick other dogs at a show.

I have not seen any study that shows that an in season bitch is at significantly higher risk than any other dog at a dog show. If you are taking reasonable precautions with your dogs while at a show, I don't see that they are any more likely to contract an infection than the other dogs at the show.

Actually, this past year I bred a bitch who came into season early and specifically asked my repro vet about bringing her to show because it would break the major if she did not show. My repro vet said that it was fine as long as I took reasonable precautions like using a crate and not allowing her to explore the grounds with her nose in everything. She whelped a healthy litter of 4.