Outside vs. Inside

[lvoss]

@mauigirl:

IMO dogs have more stimulation and get more excercise while outside but that is not a replacement for human contact.

I am sorry to disagree about the more stimulation and excercise but having done rescue and voluteered at my shelter and seeing dogs from these situations this is absolutely not true. Most outside dogs are only getting enough physical exercise if they are being allowed to indulge in bad behaviors like fence running or some of the nuisance behaviors that I discussed before. Most dogs get the most postive exercise when they are interacting with their humans and playing with their housemates. The only way an outdoor dog is getting more mental stimulation than an indoor dog with regular human contact is because it is inventing ways to entertain itself which in almost all cases is going to result in an unhappy human. When I talk about a dog needing mental stimulation they need to work their brains, either through short training sessions, games, or interactive toys.

I do think that owners have many options for outdoor activities with their dogs to fulfill the need for exercise and mental stimulation but that human interaction is key to insuring that these are positive outlets and not contributing to nuisance behaviors.

[gbroxon]

IMO, if your parents are requiring that the dog be outside, don't get a dog.

[mauigirl]

"The only way an outdoor dog is getting more mental stimulation than an indoor dog with regular human contact is because it is inventing ways to entertain itself which in almost all cases is going to result in an unhappy human. When I talk about a dog needing mental stimulation they need to work their brains, either through short training sessions, games, or interactive toys."

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I do not think that a dog should only be an outside dog. But dogs that are kept only indoors are missing out on exploring new scents and being in their natural habitat, not to mention finding that perfect sunspot that alot of my rooms do not have. I am perfectly happy to see my dogs sprint out of the sliding glass door in order to try to catch a squirrel and watching their differing plans of attack. As for mental stimulation outside they have plenty of fun games that are played outside with them. And honestly, not all inside dogs have stimulation. I agree that when a dog is ONLY left outside they can engage in behaviors that could be detrimental to their health and the sanity of their owners. But keeping them locked inside is just as detrimental. Destructive behaviors are a sign of that. Dogs should be able to explore and have quality time with their humans. And training is a key part of that. I think the problem is thinking in absolutes: only inside, only outside. A happy medium can be arranged for us lucky enough to enjoy a warmer climate for the majority of the year.

Liz

[lvoss]

This thread is about keeping a dog as an outdoor only dog. Everyone here who uses the term indoor dog does not mean that their dogs do not have access to the outdoors in either the form of daily walks or access to a yard. I consider the term indoor dog to mean a dog that spends the majority of its time with its humans where ever they might be, indoors or outdoors. I consider the term outdoor dog to mean a dog that lives away from its humans most of the time even if that time is spent in a garage or shed, it is the separation from humans that is the distinction.

I absolutely think that there are worthwhile activities for dogs outdoors but I do not think that simply opening a door and putting them outside fulfills their need for mental stimulation and physical exercise and can not be relied on as the primary means of providing these.

[mauigirl]

I totally agree. walks and dog parks (if you go to those) are vital to a dogs exercise. it just so happens that i have a large backyard that my dogs play with each other in and do b500s so it is added exercise. I was only suggesting that she attempt to bargain with her parents so as to come to some sort of arrangement that allows the dog to be inside for the majority of the time. Most people can be persuaded or bargained with. You just have to find the correct method and be persistent.

"Everyone here who uses the term indoor dog does not mean that their dogs do not have access to the outdoors in either the form of daily walks or access to a yard. I consider the term indoor dog to mean a dog that spends the majority of its time with its humans where ever they might be, indoors or outdoors. I consider the term outdoor dog to mean a dog that lives away from its humans most of the time even if that time is spent in a garage or shed, it is the separation from humans that is the distinction."

Perhaps her parents do not realize those distinctions. Just because everyone here knows them (presumably) does not mean that people off of this forum or non-dog people do.

[lvoss]

IME, if a member of the household is truly not happy with the idea of an indoor dog there is no amount of persuasion or bargaining that is going to change that. What I see is very much the sort of situation that Pat described in her post about the family who was keeping the dog in the backyard because of "housetraining issues".

[mauigirl]

How long has she been discussing this with her parents? If it's been a while and they are still staunchly against it then it is a bad idea. But other times it is just a knee-jerk reaction and fear that they will be the ones taking care of the dog. As i said before, my father was very against the idea of having two indoor doggies and grumbled about it to no end. But now he adores the dogs and takes care of them when we are not at home during the day sometimes. Maybe mine is just a cinderella story but maybe her parents are just trying to scare her into not getting a dog.

And as for Pat's story, if this girl thinks that her parents are truly capable of doing that to a dog (and not just bluffing) then no way should she get one until the situation changes.

Sorry LVOSS if i'm coming off confrontational. I might just be in one of those contrary or debating moods. Nicki doesn't like to debate with me :rolleyes:

[tanza]

I would still like to know if the breeder knows about this potential problem….

And with my story, I think that the husband had the problem (even though he had visited the house a number of times and never gave any indication).. but in the end, if everyone is not on board.. the animal will take the fall out.

[lvoss]

I haven't taken it to be confrontational, but after doing dog evaluations for rescue and seeing this situation over and over again, and then working at my local shelter and seeing it there over and over again it is definitely the exception that if someone is truly against the idea that they will have a radical change of opinion.

On the other hand, if the person is really more on the fence but with a leaning to one side, often they can change their mind. Or if the person is gradually exposed to the opposing view.

As an example, when I was in high school, I very much wanted a purebred dog. I wanted to do junior handling, 4-H and all of that. I had researched breeds and dragged my mom to dog shows and we went to breeder's houses. At that time my mom just couldn't understand the whole thing about the price, the care, etc. As much as I wanted that, there was no amount of information, bargaining, convincing that I could do to get my mom to understand.

When I moved out on my own I got my purebred dog and he would go with us on vacation and my mom would come and watch me show him and over time she came to understand and appreciate that different point of view. So much so that when she moved to Southern California and was missing having family around and didn't have enough to keep her busy that she decided to give dog showing a try. By then even my dad's view of dogs had changed since he was one who said, never will a dog be in my bed and yet the first night Cole was there he was in the bed because "the poor puppy was cold". It was because their attitude had changed gradually as they interacted with my dogs and saw the difference in quality of life my dogs had that they came around even though all the ways I tried when I was in high school didn't work.

[mauigirl]

Perhaps her parents think that dogs should be outside since they're dogs. The whole "they're animals and that's where they're supposed to be" thing. Some people really don't know better unfortunately and don't mean to be malicious. Maybe educating the parents would be the best thing. Perhaps her mom sees the other dog being an "outside" dog and thinks that that is the way things are done.

[renaultf1]

@mauigirl:

How long has she been discussing this with her parents? If it's been a while and they are still staunchly against it then it is a bad idea. But other times it is just a knee-jerk reaction and fear that they will be the ones taking care of the dog. As i said before, my father was very against the idea of having two indoor doggies and grumbled about it to no end. But now he adores the dogs and takes care of them when we are not at home during the day sometimes. Maybe mine is just a cinderella story but maybe her parents are just trying to scare her into not getting a dog.

Liz, I can see one big difference with your outcome and the potential outcome of this…you are an adult...you understand responsibility. If your father hadn't come around, because you were already responsible for your dogs, you would still have been the one handling all the care of the dog. In a situation with a kid that has to convince a parent that the dog can be an indoor dog, I would say there are some major red flags. It really sounds like the parents don't want to be involved with the dog. What happens if the parents don't come around and the kid still gets the dog...the dog is the one that pays the price when the kid goes off with his friends, plays sports after school, etc. And thinking of that outcome makes me very sad.

[mauigirl]

If she thinks that the parents won't come around then she shouldn't get the dog. That is why she should discuss it and lay out her argument before the fact. If it seems hopeless then don't get the pup. But there's no harm in attempting to make a well thought-out argument and see exactly where the parents are coming from. Does anyone know how old this "kid" is? I think that might be of importance also.

I'm only 24….i like to think of myself as an overgrown kid.:D

[sharronhurlbut]

I don't know if we have heard from this poster since the first post…have we?

[tanza]

@sharronhurlbut:

I don't know if we have heard from this poster since the first post…have we?

The poster made two posts yesterday… and I have not seen them back.... sad... especially because they are in my area... only about 20 miles away...

Of course could have been someone looking to get a "rise" out of us.....

[sharronhurlbut]

Well Pat, if you could get them over to visit your home and see how b's should be, it would be a kindness for all involved.
Maybe they will come visit.

[tanza]

@sharronhurlbut:

Well Pat, if you could get them over to visit your home and see how b's should be, it would be a kindness for all involved.
Maybe they will come visit.

Yes, but they would have to contact me…. that has not happened...

[sharronhurlbut]

Well, I so hope they do.
Thank you for the offer.
Hugs

[Andrew]

@mauigirl:

(apparently Liz has started posting to the forum, so Carrie/Andrew style we're going to be sort of confusing and post under the same name…)

Copydog…

[dmcarty]

A basenji left alone outside will 'sing' - while some of us find it endearing and makes us giggle - some neighbors are not as amused. So in addition to all the other reasons - a lonely basenji will tell you that he is lonely and that will be very unpleasant - when the neighbors call to complain.

[mauigirl]

To the original poster:

I'm really curious as to how you have received our responses and the effect, if any, this thread has had on your ongoing discussion with your parents. You did suggest that replies of this sort would help you convince them that a new member of the family ought to spend time inside with all of you. Please keep us updated and consider arranging a visit with Tanza. It would be a smart decision to meet as many B's as possible and see how they "fit" in several households/lifestyles before bringing one home.