Thank you for all your replies. I truely appreciate learning so much about everyone on this board. Unfortunately, I don't know what the parents of my pup is due to being a rescue dog. He was found in a garbage bin, then a shelter, then a rescue, then in my life!
Tayda's test strip
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Thanks for sharing this journey. Lucky Tayda to have such a good mom, and lucky all of us B folks for Dr Gonto and for DNA testing and responsible breeders that may someday eliminate this scourge.
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Thanks to everyone for all their good thoughts and advice. I really would be COMPLETELY in the dark about Fanconi if not for this forum, and at the mercy of these vets that know NOTHING about basenjis or fanconi. I was an idiot and didn't test her regularly, and I've lucked out in that it seems that her onset of Fanconi allowed a UTI to develop. If not for that UTI, and her peeing in the house right in front of my face, I would not have figured this out so soon. She peed on the rug in the living room right in front of me… and two days later, she peed on the couch where I normally sit. It's almost like she was warning me herself that something was going on that I should be paying closer attention to...
Dr. Gonto did tell me that by the time it gets to the point that the dog is drinking and urinating more (non UTI related), he/she could have been spilling sugar for up to 6 months already!
The worst part about this experience was finding a vet that had the capability of doing the blood gasses. Of course it had to be a weekend... and looking back I got a lot of mis-information from the people answering the phone. I confirmed a few times with the vet office that they could do the blood gasses onsite, and even then, the first thing the vet said to me yesterday after I got into the exam room was "you're not going to be happy, we don't have the cartridge to read the blood gasses." Ugh, I told her that I called and confirmed a few times and she said "weren't you the one that called and we suggested you go to Tufts or Angell?" and i said "yes, but that is 2 hours away and since then i've spoken to several members of the staff here who confirmed that you did have the machine and I clarified that it was not an arterial blood draw, but a venous blood draw that was needed." ACK. Turns out, even after all that clarification, she didn't realize what values we needed from the blood gasses and they did have the required cartridge. And she was trying to convince me that Tayda probably just had a UTI, and I said that sugar in urine is not normal for a UTI, and she told me that it IS possible...
Under less critical circumstances, I would have probably walked out of the office, but I just needed to get those blood gas numbers in my hands and into an email to Dr. Gonto....
Again, thanks to everyone for the support, this community is so awesome!
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Good for you to "insist" that they do the Blood Gases and sticking it out till it was done…. and of course for sending them to Dr. Gonto... and I love the "it is possible" response... like we owners are totally clueless (yes of course some are).
Now, I am curious, what was her reaction to the Fanconi Protocol?
For those of you who don't have DNA testing on your Basenji, please consider getting it down now... with the swab test, it certainly is easier then sending in blood.... and for those of you strip testing, please consider doing it 3 to 4 days in a row, instead of just once a month... remember the strips only last 6months... better to get your money's worth out of them....
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She didn't read the whole thing while I was there. I gave her a copy and had a copy for myself and I took her through the parts of it that related to getting the blood gasses and blood chemistries. We never really got to the part that discussed the supplementation. She admitted she knew nothing about Fanconi, and walked in with a book that had one little paragraph about it, and said, "I'm not sure this is Fanconi because it says here that onset is between 2-4 and Tayda is almost 6. I just kind of shook my head and said that less than 2 would be unusual, but later than 4 is normal. I think she knew that I was on a mission, that I had another resource for information that I was consulting, and that I was there purely as a way to get the numbers I needed. She did ask me to leave the protocol there with her, so I think if someone else comes in with a Basenji, she (and the other vets at that practice) will be better educated.
She did ask a few questions about who Dr. Gonto was, where he worked, etc etc… and I didn't know a lot of the answers. I just said that he developed this protocol and that many basenjis are doing very well on it, and it has become a standard for diagnosing and treating Fanconi dogs. She didn't really say much else. I mentioned that he is available for consultation for vets who have not come across fanconi yet, and she didn't seem all that interested in talking to him...
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Interesting… and that is the way it seems to go... either a Vet is "interested" and takes the time to contact Dr. Gonto or they just file it in the "round" file.... Too bad, because that has been one of the biggest problems are Vets that don't know about Fanconi and do not diagnosis it correctly. Oh well..... main thing is that you got the blood gases done... and talked to Dr. Gonto. Do you have to find now a regular Vet that will be interested in learning about Fanconi?
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I would like to. I still need a regular vet here… The basenji breeder near me recommended her vet - but the don't have the cartridge to do the blood gasses. I am thinking of calling them to see if they would consider adding that capability to their practice - since they already have the I-stat and would just need to order the cartridge... and they would get two new clients out of it!
worst case, i can go back to the same vet practice and try one of the other vets. it is a large practice with about 15 vets on staff so one of them is bound to be interested....i hope
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I have been keeping Michelle and Tayda in my thoughts too and am glad to see that, all things considered, the news is good! I was happy to help her start to sort through all this with her girl. Michelle is a wonderful mom and I know that Tayda is in good hands.
Also I hope everyone remembers to "test" their test strips. I have a dear friend who lost her girl way too soon to fanconi because her strips were bad and it wasn't caught early enough.
Pat, regarding your comment about my bitch Cleo, I have not tested her because there is absolutely no need to. I am well aware of the carriers and affecteds that are in the pedigree, and have dealt with diagnosing and treating a fanconi dog before so I am fully prepared for what potentially lies ahead. Thanks, but I'll save my money for the direct test. Blood/DNA has been in Missouri for several years, ready to go. I have been stripping her several consecutive times each month since she was a year old, and a marker test isn't going to change that. If she tests affected, that won't help me any, I'll still have to keep checking as i do, and I usually do it much more often than necessary anyways. If she tests better than affected, then I *could" stop stripping her, but probably wouldn't want to until the direct test. I continue to check my other kids occasionally even though the marker test makes them appear to be "safe". After all, it is JUST a marker test and not totally reliable. But it sure is a godsend! The marker test was developed as a temporary test for current breeding plans, and that's exactly how I'm using it. If/when any of my dogs are bred, both parents will be tested before hand, as I do with many other potential health risks. The boy Cleo lives with has tested clear, so no worries about an oops litter. Breedings were done before the marker test arrived, but the dog Cleo was bred to tested clear, so the puppies will be fine and no need to test her for that reason either.
Would I love to know what her results are? Absolutely! And I still encourage everyone I talk to to do the marker test if they want to for peace of mind. It's a wonderful tool. But my financial and living situation changed significantly last year (for the worse) so I'm not going to pay for a test I'll have to redo later, when it doesn't affect the onset of the disease. You can't treat it before it comes and the test doesn't help tell you when it's coming. Someday curiosity might get the best of me and I'll go ahead with the marker test. But for now I'm content where I'm at. For those who want to and can afford to test their whole household twice, kudos!
Pat, I don't know why you continue to throw out negative comments about me in these forums, but I would appreciate you going to the source in the future for the facts before making false assumptions.
The gang sends their love and baroos to Michelle, Tayda, and the Lenster!
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Not sure what negative comments you are referring to… I only asked the question because if it were me I would want know.... what you do is your choice... but remember any of her pups that may or may not be a carrier could get bred to another carrier. Or if this goes back to the comments about neutering and the contract, sorry... I would say that to anyone and I was not the only one that made the same comments. And all I said was to me the most important thing is the home not if they show or not, contract or no contract.
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Yep, the home is the most important thing to me too. Why do think I placed Lenny with her in the first place? There was more than just that said, directly and indirectly. Had you bothered to contact me you wouldn't have jumped to the wrong conclusions.
And yes, what I do with my dogs is my choice, so I don't understand why you felt the need to bring up my bitch in a public forum when this discussion had nothing to do with her. Nor was I involved in the thread at that time.
All of the puppies are required to be tested when a full test comes out, no matter the type of home. Those that are intact, all but one are intact for my use only, and should the owners change their mind in the future, breedings have to be cleared through me. In those homes, there is no other intact dog. The one puppy that is in another breeder's home, is to be tested first and should he be a carrier (or IND), is only to be bred to tested clear dogs. There are no serious breeding plans for any of them at this time.
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This thread is really about Tayda, not about your breeding or contract practices but that said, I jumped to no wrong conclusions, we were asked on a public forum about contracts and spay/neuter, if you read the thread. The comments made by me and others were our feelings on the subject
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Exactly! This thread is about Tayda, so why did you bring me and my bitch into it? Since you did, I responded.
And the same thing about previous threads. It was about one person and one dog and you continued to bring me and the rest of my dogs into it unneccessarily. You could have certainly been very helpful to the owner without going the route that you did. Things that should have been private. And had you contacted me, you would have realized that a lot of what was being said was innacurate.
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Exactly! This thread is about Tayda, so why did you bring me and my bitch into it? Since you did, I responded.
And the same thing about previous threads. It was about one person and one dog and you continued to bring me and the rest of my dogs into it unneccessarily. You could have certainly been very helpful to the owner without going the route that you did. Things that should have been private. And had you contacted me, you would have realized that a lot of what was being said was innacurate.
Gezzz, Kelli, you are certainly getting pretty defensive? It was a question and since Lenny is an offspring of Cleo, I was really asking Lenny's Mom… Obviously knowing that the sire is clear is great for Lenny, because at worst he would only be a carrier.
About neutering, Lenny's breeder was never mentioned by name in those posts, Lenny's Mom was asking for advise about neutering and the fact that there was a contract, period. My comments were my personal opinion as a breeder and stated that way, as were the others that commented on that thread.
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Again, the thread was about Tayda. Not Lenny. And you already knew that Lenny was at worst a carrier so I don't know why you would bring him into a fanconi discussion either.
Yes, it was frustrating to see false things being said about me, the dogs, or the contract. Sorry, but I guess I expected better of you. No Lenny's breeder wasn't specifically named in that thread, but it was named in other threads and was easy to figure out if someone didn't already know.
I am not going to clog up this thread any further, let's get back to Tayda because that's who it's supposed to be about. If you want to continue this, you know how to reach me.
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How about the two of you take this conversation private since no one else is involved in your tiff – and frankly, I barely know what the heck you're talking about, and I read almost every thread. Surely, I can't be the only one.
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How about the two of you take this conversation private since no one else is involved in your tiff – and frankly, I barely know what the heck you're talking about, and I read almost every thread. Surely, I can't be the only one.
I agree… my apologies to the Forum
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No need to for apologies, as a rescue person, I feel folks with intact dogs should have them tested.
Oops happen.
It fine if the oops is with a clear b, but what happens if its not??
Fanconis happens. -
Back to the subject… It's kind of funny that I live in WV (probably not the most progressive state in veterinary medicine). Anyways, the first time I took Bella in to see our small town vet & he brings up the subject of Fanconi! I was astounded that he was familiar with it. He knows about testing the urine for glucose and that the condition is not curable, but I haven't thought to ask him about the protocol. I am sure he would be open to it, though... Seems he must be VERY informed in pet health issues! So I guess there is hope after all, even in a small town. Of course he probably doesn't have the equipment for blood gasses, but I am sure another veterinary hospital I know of in a larger town nearby may have the equipment. That vet's office even treats the circus animals when they come to town!
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Back to the subject… It's kind of funny that I live in WV (probably not the most progressive state in veterinary medicine). Anyways, the first time I took Bella in to see our small town vet & he brings up the subject of Fanconi! I was astounded that he was familiar with it. He knows about testing the urine for glucose and that the condition is not curable, but I haven't thought to ask him about the protocol. I am sure he would be open to it, though... Seems he must be very informed in pet health issues! So I guess there is hope after all, even in a small town. Of course he probably doesn't have the equipment for blood gasses, but I am sure another veterinary hospital I know of in a larger town nearby may have the equipment. That vet's office even treats the circus animals when they come to town!
And your best bet is to have the DNA test done… then you know where you stand as far a Fanconi goes....
And for many... blood gases can be done at a "human" hospital.... many years ago.. that was our only way of getting them done.
But that is great that your Vet knows and accepts Fanconi... if any Basenji is afflicted
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Hey- if you do end up coming up to Tufts, let me know, I work right down the street, and there is a dog park not far, if you want to grab a coffee before the drive home and tire the kids out a bit
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And your best bet is to have the DNA test done… then you know where you stand as far a Fanconi goes....
And for many... blood gases can be done at a "human" hospital.... many years ago.. that was our only way of getting them done.
But that is great that your Vet knows and accepts Fanconi... if any Basenji is afflicted
I know the importance, but I have mixed feelings too… I can't let my guard down even if the test shows "no worry". I will still want to strip test anyways for precautionary reasons. And if the test says she may get it, then I will worry like crazy and be anxious about every little thing. If I was a breeder, then absolutely no doubt about it, DNA would be a necessity! But Bella is spayed so that is not an issue... I would recommend the DNA test to all Basenji owners, but ultimately it is their choice. Of course if I were buying a pup from a breeder, I would insist on knowing about their DNA test results for Fanconi. But who am I to speak, I got Bella without research and without knowing about health issues. My hubby was uninformed about pet store puppies... she was a gift chosen by him. However, I want to tell everyone now how wrong it is to go about dog ownership in the way we did. Research the breed and buy from a responsible breeder... Now I know!
