The Cost of Raising A Litter

[lvoss]

Since it is that time of year again, puppy season, and since I am breeding a litter this year, I thought that I would start a running tally of the expenses of breeding a litter.

To catch everyone up on the costs so far.

Health testing for 1 parent:

OFA Hip x-rays $75 + $30 OFA fee
OFA Patella Check $10 + $15 OFA fee
OFA Thyroid Panel $81 + $15 OFA fee
Fanconi Marker Test $60
CERF Exam $35 + $12 CERF fee for first time registration

Total for health testing 1 parent = $333
Usually you only have to pay for the health testing of the dog they own some of these tests do need to be repeated through out life but I am not going to throw those costs in.

Shipping costs for getting the girl here

Health Certificate $54
Shipping Cost $219.48

Total Cost $273.48

Cost of semen retrieval and transport $95

Progesterone Testing Costs $75/test x 4 tests = $300

So as of today I have a total of $1111.48

Will update tomorrow after I get the insemination bill.

[EskiLovr]

Why is the expense for artificial insemination necessary. I have never quite understood this. Are both the dogs not going to be in the same place? If that is the case what's with the transportation costs?

I am aware of the benefit of A.I. for cows, where you can inseminate an entire herd of cows from a single bull (having the bull doing this himself would be exhaustive.) Someone please educate me, since I've never been involved in the breeding of dogs. It just seems like it is awfully expensive, to go that route, and I am not sure what the benefit would be.

[tanza]

@EskiLovr:

Why is the expense for artificial insemination necessary. I have never quite understood this. Are both the dogs not going to be in the same place? If that is the case what's with the transportation costs?

I am aware of the benefit of A.I. for cows, where you can inseminate an entire herd of cows from a single bull (having the bull doing this himself would be exhaustive.) Someone please educate me, since I've never been involved in the breeding of dogs. It just seems like it is awfully expensive, to go that route, and I am not sure what the benefit would be.

Well, in this case, Nicky was collected and then neutered. Since we have the ability to collect and store frozen for use later, it gave the opportunity for lvoss to still be able to use him as a sire, but be able to neuter him. Makes for a happier, healthier dog to be able to neuter…. So the transportation costs would be to have the frozen shipped to the Vet that will be doing the procedure.
Another benefit is that you can wait until the dog ages... as in we have late onset genetic concerns in Basenjis.. since things like Fanconi (the test was not available until 2007) and PRA (eye problem that causes blindness) are late onset. So the older the male is, the more likely you can look at their long term health without having to keep them intact.

[tanza]

For the litter I am breeding this Fall my costs so also my pups are $950.00 with a 100.00 refund with proof of spay/neuter (intact show prospects are the same price $950.00 but have a different contract). Also, my contact says that if for any reason you have to give up your Basenjis for its entire lifetime, it comes back to me.

Health Testing for 1 parent:
Hips, Elbows - X-rays $200.00 - OFA fee $40.00 (for hips and elbows together)
Patella - $15.00 and $15.00 OFA fee
Fanconi Marker - $60.00
CERF Exam - $35.00 and $15 for OFA registration
Thyroid Test - $100.00 and $15 OFA fee

Total: 495.00 - 1 parent health testing

Forgot to add DNA AKC parentage testing: $40.00

New Total $535.00

We will have in addition, stud fee shipping and/or traveling costs to take the bitch to the stud when she comes in season. Sometimes there is an agreement that instead of a stud fee, the stud owner gets a puppy back from the litter, so if you just use the puppy price that would be $850. Progesterone Testing so we know when the best time to bred will be.

[EskiLovr]

Thanks for taking the time to explain that. It makes perfect sense to me now. I understand how much better it is to neuter for the health and happiness of the dog, as a pet and companion. Too bad that you cannot collect, neuter and still conformation show, with certification of proper testicular development from a vet. That would really be best for the male overall.

[tanza]

@EskiLovr:

Thanks for taking the time to explain that. It makes perfect sense to me now. I understand how much better it is to neuter for the health and happiness of the dog, as a pet and companion. Too bad that you cannot collect, neuter and still conformation show, with certification of proper testicular development from a vet. That would really be best for the male overall.

Well, true, but most Basenjis are finished (conformation champion) by the time they are 3ish… so not too much of a hassle... and unless you are going to show your Basenjis on the National level as in what is called a Special going for Best of Breed and then Group and then Best In Show, normally 90% of the males could and should be neutered... IMO, especially with being able to collect them. And you can show them as a Vetern (over the age of 7) at specialty shows.
But I do think that as they have in Canada, we should have "altered" classes... I think that many more people would get interested in showing as a sport if they didn't have to worry about intact dogs/bitches.

[lvoss]

I had Nicky collected and neutered after he finished his conformation championship. It really does make life easier for all of us. Though he still gets "excited" during breeding season, he is not stressing himself out to the extent that he did when he was intact. Since we have two intact females in the house it really makes the month that they are in season easier. My dogs are all house dogs and pets first and foremost so we really do strive to keep their and our daily schedules as "normal" as possible.

As for the added expense, I went back and started to look at my costs when I did live cover breedings and they add up to almost the same sort of fees when you add in gas, hotel, etc. I did progesterone with both of those breedings to make sure when I drove down to the stud dogs the timing was right.

I did not add in the lease fee, it is just like the stud fee, the cost of a puppy. So that will be another $850 to the total I have going but I don't owe it until the pups are born.

So my total with the lease fee is so far $1961.48.

Keep in mind a typical litter is about 4-5 puppies and there is no garuntee that after I have spent all this money there will be any litter at all.

[lvoss]

I should also add, when I had Nicky collected, I had no idea at the time when I would breed him. I had been in the breed long enough at that point to realize that we were going to have a problem as a breed if dogs that came from long lived, healthy lines and had proved themselves in multiple venues were eliminated from the gene pool. So I had him collected because I wanted to the option to make a decision about using him when there was more information available to us. 3 years later, we got the marker test for Fanconi and I had him tested, and he is Probably Clear.

At 10 3/4 years old he is still coursing and racing, and he could probably do agility but I made the mistake of telling him when he finished his Rally Novice title that he was retired and only had to do what he wanted from now on and apparently what he wants is to do twice as many tunnels and no tire jumps which makes agility for anything more than fun a little difficult.

Now I have to finish this post because he is demanding my undivided attention.

[EskiLovr]

Tanza (and everyone else too, but specifically you, since you mentioned it)

I also do not understand why we do not have the ability to conformation show dogs with "limited" AKC registration (I cannot remember the abbreviation, maybe someone else can help.) These dogs can do rally, luring, etc, but not conformation. What's the deal there?

[tanza]

@EskiLovr:

Tanza (and everyone else too, but specifically you, since you mentioned it)

I also do not understand why we do not have the ability to conformation show dogs with "limited" AKC registration (I cannot remember the abbreviation, maybe someone else can help.) These dogs can do rally, luring, etc, but not conformation. What's the deal there?

I think it was mainly due to breeding. Remember conformation shows are for judging "breeding" dogs. Limited registration means you can't breed and register an AKC litter. So in keeping with what conformation shows were designed to be, if the dog has a limited registration they can't be shown.

Sometimes, a dog with a limited registration might have a defect or health problem that would "preclude" them from being a good possible dog to breed.. So while the problem may not effect to overall health and life of the dog, it would be considered something that you would not want to continue as a genetic concern.

[lvoss]

The original purpose of conformation shows was to exhibit breeding stock. Since "limited registration" means the breeder has specifically designated that dog as "non breeding stock" because dogs with limited status can not have any offspring registered, the reasoning is that they should therefore also not be allowed to compete in conformation.

I think we are at a point right now where those of us who participate in purebred dog sports really need to get together as a group and decide what sort of events and services are important to us and then start submitting these to AKC with the backing of many people.

UKC which has been around for a long time and is also a legitimate though much less used registry in the US, does offer host clubs the option of having classes for altered dogs, and for puppies 4-6 months old. These dogs do not get championship points but do get to compete for best of breed puppy or best of breed altered, they also have group and BIS competition for these dogs. I have participated in 4 UKC shows over 1 weekend and really enjoyed them. I hope to do some more this fall and am seriously considering dual registering my litter because I enjoyed the UKC shows and think they are fun and good ring practice for my dogs. The UKC website is http://www.ukcdogs.com

[ComicDom1]

@lvoss:

Since it is that time of year again, puppy season, and since I am breeding a litter this year, I thought that I would start a running tally of the expenses of breeding a litter.

To catch everyone up on the costs so far.

Health testing for 1 parent:

OFA Hip x-rays $75 + $30 OFA fee
OFA Patella Check $10 + $15 OFA fee
OFA Thyroid Panel $81 + $15 OFA fee
Fanconi Marker Test $60
CERF Exam $35 + $12 CERF fee for first time registration

Total for health testing 1 parent = $333
Usually you only have to pay for the health testing of the dog they own some of these tests do need to be repeated through out life but I am not going to throw those costs in.

Shipping costs for getting the girl here

Health Certificate $54
Shipping Cost $219.48

Total Cost $273.48

Cost of semen retrieval and transport $95

Progesterone Testing Costs $75/test x 4 tests = $300

So as of today I have a total of $1111.48

Will update tomorrow after I get the insemination bill.

Ivoss I think you left out the cost of the vet bill for collecting the blood or shipping the blood sample to University of Missouri for the Fanconi test! I also think you left out the value of your time or hours spent getting everything done, and the cost of transporting the animal to the vet for the different tests and certifications. Of course since you have collected your basenji, I do not know if how you would factor in the housing, regular maintenance and feeding of your basenji. Maybe you can keep some kind of record of what it does cost for housing, feeding, and other costs involved with the female that is on its way to you.

Jason

[lvoss]

I didn't include the blood draw and shipping costs because recently I have taken advantage of the free clinics offered by my local club. Nicky's blood draw cost was $5 and it was $75 for shipping but I did that 3 years ago so sort of just glossed over it.

I also didn't include semen collection fees and storage because I sort of just figure that those are mine to bear because it was something important for me. Collection fees for semen are $45 per breeding vial plus $60 a year for up to 30 vials.

I also don't tend to look at food expense though it is definately an added cost to feed another animal but I also figure if I don't keep a tally of the money I spend feeding my 2 Bengal foster cats, why add do it for the cost of one more dog. Which I guess all kind of goes to say that even when you look at this running tally, there is more money going out but I just don't tally it because I guess I consider those "responsible owner costs" instead of "responsible breeder costs".

[tanza]

Base fees for ICSB (who are usually at dog shows) is a base of 295.00
http://www.ik9sb.com/Fees.asp

And when speaking of costs, remember the "human" time… especially since 99% of us work regular jobs...

[lvoss]

To add to my breeding expenses today we went in for a surgical insemination.

Costs:
$45 for semen preparation
$450 for surgical implantation
$90 for weekend/holiday service

Total $585 and anyone who knows anything about these services will tell you that is dirt cheap especially in California!

Add that to the running total and we are up to $2546.48 and still no way to know if we will actually have any pups.

[lvoss]

Update on costs. Today's ultrasound $148.75. And great news, it looks like at least 3 pups and maybe 4.

So the new total is $2695.21

[sharronhurlbut]

This shows the effort, time and cost that SHOULD go into breeding a quality basenji.
Its not just "putting" 2 dogs together…

[lvoss]

For anyone interested, here is a copy of the ultrasound.

[LiveWWSD]

Awesome, Thank you Lisa.

[sharronhurlbut]

Cool, thanks for sharing.