Sudden aggression!

[Mantis]

im afraid to enroll him in any more classes because i dont want him "attacking" or biting anyone.

If you have taken several obedience classes then you shouldnt have these types of problems that treats will easily fix. I would expect with yout training in the class you would know how to address your basenji.

My dogs will raise their hair like a mowhawk when scared at the dog park on first meeting. They posture and hop around not letting anyone close to them.

It is very strange that your boy would growl/bite.

I would do a vet check to rule out health issues.

[tanza]

I hate to say this, but reading that post, Pongo is ruling the house or better said, confused on "who" should rule the house…. Pongo thinks it is his job to protect you and your husband from everyone.

IMO, the water bottle is not the way to go. He needs to learn that people are good things... not something that causes a surprise....which again IMO can lead to even more aggression.

[Quercus]

Personally, I don't think this has anything to do with pack order…not surprising for anybody who knows me Sounds to me like he is a nervous, resource guarder. He growls because he is afraid of anybody taking away, or getting in between him and his precious

[Pongo]

Honestly, Quercus i agree with that. i do know that my husband and i have worked very hard to establish dominence with Pongo. he obeys everything we say, and IS the dog in the house. we make him wait for his food, show him that we are the first ones out the door, and he even goes to bed (in the crate) when we tell him to "go to bed". he is a very good dog overall. i will look into a behavioralist and im going to talk to our obedience trainer tonight. if anything, i think pongo is reacting in nervousness or fear or protecting his territory. i thought we had done a good job socializing pongo but maybe im wrong? i dont know.

[tanza]

@Pongo:

Honestly, Quercus i agree with that. i do know that my husband and i have worked very hard to establish dominence with Pongo. he obeys everything we say, and IS the dog in the house. we make him wait for his food, show him that we are the first ones out the door, and he even goes to bed (in the crate) when we tell him to "go to bed". he is a very good dog overall. i will look into a behavioralist and im going to talk to our obedience trainer tonight. if anything, i think pongo is reacting in nervousness or fear or protecting his territory. i thought we had done a good job socializing pongo but maybe im wrong? i dont know.

Resource guarding is fairly common… and sometimes it happens (as do many behavior problems) without you even knowing it is happening.... just like "bang" one day it is there... It is very easy to miss the little things....so don't get down on yourself... at least you reconize the problem and are ready to correct it. I agree that a behaviorist would be the best choice....

[tanza]

@basenjibratz:

Aside from having Pongo checked out by the vet to rule out any health issues, I would say that Pongo maybe attempting to make his place in the pecking order.

It seems like he is not recognizing his place and he is challenging the order.

How are you treating him at home?
Is he treated like a dog first and not like a human?
Does he earn his food? Do you make him follow basic commands like sit/wait before being served?
Check out how you are dealing with him and make sure that you're not treating him like an equal.
He might be challenging his position and trying to be top dog in the house and with others.

And I agree with Andrea that this behavior is not "challenging for position".. but guarding "his" humans….

[Quercus]

@Pongo:

Honestly, Quercus i agree with that. i do know that my husband and i have worked very hard to establish dominence with Pongo. he obeys everything we say, and IS the dog in the house. we make him wait for his food, show him that we are the first ones out the door, and he even goes to bed (in the crate) when we tell him to "go to bed". he is a very good dog overall. i will look into a behavioralist and im going to talk to our obedience trainer tonight. if anything, i think pongo is reacting in nervousness or fear or protecting his territory. i thought we had done a good job socializing pongo but maybe im wrong? i dont know.

Is your trainer using positive reinforcement training?

One thing that I learned recently regarding dogs with issues like this (I have two of them, by the way!) is that the socializing, and desensitizing them to strangers is often done in a way that makes the problem more intense for the dog. It is best for the OWNER to feed treats to the dog, as the dog meets new people…not the STRANGER feeding the dog. When the stranger feeds the dog, it makes the dog VERY conflicted..."I am really nervous, but I want the treat too" so it draws the dog towards the thing they are nervous about. This is something that I did wrong socializing our first and second basenjis.

IME, six and seven months is the first time that you start to see the personality that the adult dog will have. You can see hints of it when they are baby puppies, but as they mature you really start to see who they are. Is Pongo neutered? Sometimes neutering helps the kind of growly/bitey behavior.

[nomrbddgs]

Just a little further info-if you react to him in a certain way when this happens, and your husband reacts in a different way this may have some bearing on how he reacts in these situations. An eg is My Shadow nips at males that come in the house-only when I'm not there. There are 4 girls in the house-2 spayed and 2 not. If my husband is there he will nip-if I'm there he will not-because I won't put up with it. I'm not saying anything either way, just watch everyone's reactions. This may give you some further clues as to what is going on.

[tanza]

@tanza:

Resource guarding is fairly common… and sometimes it happens (as do many behavior problems) without you even knowing it is happening.... just like "bang" one day it is there... It is very easy to miss the little things....so don't get down on yourself... at least you reconize the problem and are ready to correct it. I agree that a behaviorist would be the best choice....

I should have said that resource guarding is common in many, many breeds, not just Basenjis.

[tanza]

@Quercus:

Is your trainer using positive reinforcement training?

One thing that I learned recently regarding dogs with issues like this (I have two of them, by the way!) is that the socializing, and desensitizing them to strangers is often done in a way that makes the problem more intense for the dog. It is best for the OWNER to feed treats to the dog, as the dog meets new people…not the STRANGER feeding the dog. When the stranger feeds the dog, it makes the dog VERY conflicted..."I am really nervous, but I want the treat too" so it draws the dog towards the thing they are nervous about. This is something that I did wrong socializing our first and second basenjis.

IME, six and seven months is the first time that you start to see the personality that the adult dog will have. You can see hints of it when they are baby puppies, but as they mature you really start to see who they are. Is Pongo neutered? Sometimes neutering helps the kind of growly/bitey behavior.

That is a great point Andrea… and I totally agree.... the owner should be the one feeding the treats and the stranger/friend just being there.... by the owner not reacting to the person and keep feeding/talking prasing their dog makes the dog feel like "OK, I don't have to be in control, Mom/Dad have the situation under control.... and if they are comfortable with the person, I can be too"...

[Pongo]

the fact that i should be feeding the treats to him and not what makes him nervous is a very good point. i havent been doing that just right. i will try that out. and pongo probably is resouce gaurding or gaurding us. i did talk with his trainer. (which by the way is a positive reinforcer trainer) she asked me to come in next week. she wants me to enrol him into the beyond basic obedience class so she can she how he acts and help us out. she is very good and has been a trainer for over 20 years and has delt with basenjis before. i feel confident in her and i will let you know how his classes go.
also, pongo has not been neutured. she said that is prob. part of the reason he is acting this way. i dont want to neuter him becuase i hope to show him. thanks for all the support and help

[Quercus]

@Pongo:

the fact that i should be feeding the treats to him and not what makes him nervous is a very good point. i havent been doing that just right. i will try that out. and pongo probably is resouce gaurding or gaurding us. i did talk with his trainer. (which by the way is a positive reinforcer trainer) she asked me to come in next week. she wants me to enrol him into the beyond basic obedience class so she can she how he acts and help us out. she is very good and has been a trainer for over 20 years and has delt with basenjis before. i feel confident in her and i will let you know how his classes go.
also, pongo has not been neutured. she said that is prob. part of the reason he is acting this way. i dont want to neuter him becuase i hope to show him. thanks for all the support and help

I sent you a private message I totally understand what you are feeling. Our first B was pretty much the same way with strangers.

[tanza]

@Pongo:

the fact that i should be feeding the treats to him and not what makes him nervous is a very good point. i havent been doing that just right. i will try that out. and pongo probably is resouce gaurding or gaurding us. i did talk with his trainer. (which by the way is a positive reinforcer trainer) she asked me to come in next week. she wants me to enrol him into the beyond basic obedience class so she can she how he acts and help us out. she is very good and has been a trainer for over 20 years and has delt with basenjis before. i feel confident in her and i will let you know how his classes go.
also, pongo has not been neutured. she said that is prob. part of the reason he is acting this way. i dont want to neuter him becuase i hope to show him. thanks for all the support and help

For sure if you are thinking about showing him, you need to work to changed that behavior…. obviously would not work in the show ring.... Glad to hear that you Trainer is interested in helping you change his behavior.... But I would not pin everything on the fact that he is not neutered... certainly can be part of the problem, but a small part....

[Quercus]

@tanza:

For sure if you are thinking about showing him, you need to work to changed that behavior…. obviously would not work in the show ring.... Glad to hear that you Trainer is interested in helping you change his behavior.... But I would not pin everything on the fact that he is not neutered... certainly can be part of the problem, but a small part....

Very true Pat! And if the breeder needs/wishes to keep the boy intact, that adds a whole new perspective as well. But definitely, it really really s-cks to have a dog that regularly growls on the table, and of course it is impossible to have a dog that is willing to bite on the table. And the behavior will definitely need to be addressed for all of the reasons already mentioned.

[Barklessdog]

But I would not pin everything on the fact that he is not neutered..

We had the same issues and had our dog neutered and did nothing for his aggression. If fact he is usually the most agressive in spring & fall, when other dogs are in heat. I find agression is due to the dogs original litter standing and the pack order of your dog in your family.

We used the squirt bottle and it worked really well. He rarely growls or goes after anyone anymore. If he does he gets squirted and we show no fear towards him. We also do it without anger and put in in his crate for a long time out. It has helped a lot, but he still tests us from time to time. I doubt he will ever really change, we can change though and we control his behavior not leaving anything to set him off or the possibility to have an incident. You can never let up, EVERYONE has to be on the same page about who's boss and consiquences must be inforced at ANY sign of aggression.

I would never leave either of our dogs in the back seat with a stranger. They are a lot like people, they don't want some fool stranger staring at them, fussing with them or invading their space. They care little about what you or anyone else thinks.

Most people think they own a regular dog, but my experience is they are not, they are more like owning a tame badger. Would you trust anyone alone with your tame badger?

I don't, why chance it?

I find our dogs do great with some people and dogs and others it's just trouble, so I just gave up and when people are over they stay in their crates or on walks try I avoid people & other dogs, or make them sit while they walk by.

In my opinion he's not going to change that much, but you can, and don't put him in those situations. You just can't put an adult basenji in the back of a car (uncrated) and expect everyone can do what they want, like eating, petting or touching him. Not everyone knows what you should not do to set a basenji off (staring in his eyes, touching his tail, surprising him while he's asleep etc) It's not going to happen in my opinion. Again basenji's are more wild dog / human than pet. If some stranger came up & touched your tail, what would you do? I would be mad as hell and punch him in the nose! Basenji's are the same. They don't enjoy strangers unless they feed them treats and even then it's not like they can do what they want.

Realize you own this instead of a pet dog

[Barklessdog]

I should have said that resource guarding is common in many, many breeds, not just Basenjis.

I agree your not going to make a golden retriever out of a Chow, Akita, Shino and a lot of terriers that you can trust with small children, strangers, other dogs without very strict adult/owner supervision. Basenji's are the same, don't expect something they can't really be, that's not in their nature.

Owners need to know what they are getting into. That's why I never recommend someone getting a basenji. I don't think many people are committed or educated as to what it takes to own these dogs.

[Pongo]

@Barklessdog:

I agree your not going to make a golden retriever out of a Chow, Akita, Shino and a lot of terriers that you can trust with small children, strangers, other dogs without very strict adult/owner supervision. Basenji's are the same, don't expect something they can't really be, that's not in their nature.

Owners need to know what they are getting into. That's why I never recommend someone getting a basenji. I don't think many people are committed or educated as to what it takes to own these dogs.

I understood what i was gettgin into when i got Pongo. My husband and I did plenty of reasearch on Basenjis before we got one. so i knew what i was in for. If Pongo never changes then i am willing to accept that. but first im going to try and help him through his aggressive behavior.

[Barklessdog]

I agree, but like having children, having it happen first hand is both embarrassing and frightening, seeing it unleash in an instant for whatever reason. So you can work with a behavioralist, which I agree should be done, but when the time comes with other people will you fully be able to trust your dog in certain situations?

I can't, things can happen so quick it's alarming.

Once we had a party so everyone wants to see our dogs, so I let them out and they were fine, I watched them like a hawk, and then the dog discovers a woman’s purse that she hid it unknown to me behind a chair. She had an Oreo cookie in it, the dog grabs the cookie and the guy I work with immediately tries to take the cookie out of the dogs mouth, the dog snapped at my friends hand all nuts, luckily he pulled away in time and did not get bit, meanwhile the dog woofs down the cookie and takes off. It all happened with in a few seconds, but seemed like an hour of slow motion. I could not get there in time a few feet away!

Now if I will not take him out at large parties or with small children. If do, I check to be sure no one's purse, coat or shoes are out and I keep him on a leash like that badger!

Even with training I think it would be daring to put your dog in any potential situation with other people to see if the training works. It also might work for one time but what about the next or if the dog is in bad mood?

My biggest fear is he bites someone's kid and they force you to put the dog down (which I know two people who did this, one a Rot and a crazy Dalmatian) then sue you!

I believe if a dog is a known blood drawing biter, he will or can do it again, it just has to be the right situation. It maybe months or years away, but he has it in him to do it again.

Siegfried & Roy's Tiger never bit him or showed any aggression. He was well trained. Good thing a basenji can't kill a person.

You can only control so much, no matter how much training they get.
Testing the waters is a dangerous thing in my opinion.

[lvoss]

@Pongo:

the fact that i should be feeding the treats to him and not what makes him nervous is a very good point. i havent been doing that just right. i will try that out. and pongo probably is resouce gaurding or gaurding us. i did talk with his trainer. (which by the way is a positive reinforcer trainer) she asked me to come in next week. she wants me to enrol him into the beyond basic obedience class so she can she how he acts and help us out. she is very good and has been a trainer for over 20 years and has delt with basenjis before. i feel confident in her and i will let you know how his classes go.
also, pongo has not been neutured. she said that is prob. part of the reason he is acting this way. i dont want to neuter him becuase i hope to show him. thanks for all the support and help

Good for you for going and talking with your trainer and deciding to get Pongo back in classes. It is amazing how much difference doing that can make. Not only does the regular schedule of working your dog build your relationship, getting an outside perspective of your dog's behavior can be really invaluable.

[tanza]

Kept us up to date on how it is going with Pongo!