This is fascinating stuff - thank you for pointing the way to it @sanjibasenji
Breeds That Bite
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Nothing against your niece, I am sure her Pits are great dogs, but that is how the Staffordshire got a bad rap, people just assuming cause they look like Pits they are Pits….
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As I said before, in Ontario they have banned any 'dog that resembles a pitbull'-pathetic isn't it.
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I have to add a couple of points to this topic as well.
1. a dog I believe can only be as good or as bad as the owner who is teaching them. For instance, one of my exboyfriends' brother -in -law had a big rottie chained in the backyard, he of course was the only one that could ever approach the dog (no one else dared to). It's favorite things were eating cats (disturbing thought) and chewing on the big black rubber ring on the bottom of traffic pylons. I approached the dog, reached out my hand and let him come to me and sniff me out (never showing fear of course, being the dog- lover that I am). Within a matter of minutes I was petting and playing with him. Before I knew it he layed down and rolled over so I could pet his tummy! The owner was upset replying that now he had go ahead and retrain him all over again b/c I turned him into a big pussycat!2. the second thing about this is: one day I was flipping channels and came across "animal emergency" or something like that the show was called. Anyways, a little 12yr old Sheltie had been rushed into the emergency room b/c the owners were at the park w/it when a Golden Retriever had attacked the little Sheltie. I guess the Golden had picked up the Sheltie and shook it ripping the skin- fur and all, away from it's body. The fur had been ripped from one side starting from the stomach going up to the spine. The vets were trying to keep the Sheltie from going into shock, giving her IV antibiotics to keep from getting infection and trying to figure out how to sew her back together or even if she would survive. The skin was so torn around the stomach area that her stomach was actually falling out! It is a very disturbing story, but I just have to make a point about how aggressive and the damage that any dog, no matter the breed can bestow. The little Sheltie of course had to be put to sleep- very sad!:(
This topic always gets a rise out of me b/c I too have come across so many very sweet pitbulls and think it should not be the dogs who get punished but the owners. There needs to be stricker laws put on the bad owners out there. There also needs to be stricker laws enforced on people who torture animals (animal cruelty laws).
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One other additional thought I had….....
Here is a prime example.....Ceaser Milan, I know we all know who he is, has a pitbull name "Daddy". Who if you watch the shows, this dog is a big kittycat. His full bio is posted on Dogster. -
<<a dog="" i="" believe="" can="" only="" be="" as="" good="" or="" bad="" the="" owner="" who="" is="" teaching="" them="">>
Well, I kinda disagree..a person teaching a dog can bring out the best or the worst in the dog…but I strongly believe that genetic temperament is the foundation for behavior. You can have a dog that is dangerous and you can have done everything humanly possible to improve this dog's behavior, and you may not be successful. And dogs can be mentally ill just like humans....
Dogs are animals, animals can be very dangerous, particularly when we expect them to live in our families.</a>
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Chiming in here. All over my neighborhood there are pits, some are treated very well, others are there only to provoke fear. The mentality of the owners is that they have a mean gaurd dog and they are proud of that. These dogs were bred to dog fight, I have been chased, cornered and flat out feared for my life and the life of my basenji and rat terrier, who by the way, seem to think they could take the pit. LOL My problem is they are left to run free, animal control is useless in my town, they work bankers hours, and have weekends off. So I hunt down the owners, and ask them to please keep a lead on the dog(s), that I feel threatened, and afraid. I'm told these dogs have been deprogrammed?? What? I don't believe you can take instinct out of a dog, nothing will make me believe that, ever. Its like saying you can make a basenji bark like a hound dog, can't. I think that there should be a better more regulated policy for people that want to own this breed. I have seen lots and lots of these dogs, they will turn on their owners at the drop of a hat, seen it with my own eyes. you should have to take like an aggresssive breed training course or something, if you don't get educated on aggressive breeds, then you shouldn't be allowed to own them. My 2 cents, I'm sure worth less than a penny, but thats how I feel.
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Pit Bull overpopulation is a huge problem in Los Angeles. The shelters are full of them, they are being sold and given away for free on craigslist every day. The pennysaver has multiple byb selling pups every week, and when i go to the dog park the dogs I see that are not fixed are usually pit bull and bully type breeds. I just dont understand why all these people keep on breeding them so much when well over 50% of all the dogs in the shelters here are pit-pit mixes-bully type breeds. ~So sad~
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Very often dogs that shelters have identified as "Pit bulls" and even many in for sale in the papers are not pit bulls, but one of the many breeds often mistaken for them. Here's a fun "game' to see how many people can accurately ID a true pit:
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These dogs were bred to dog fight,. . . . I'm told these dogs have been deprogrammed?? What? I don't believe you can take instinct out of a dog, nothing will make me believe that, ever. .. .. .. .. they will turn on their owners at the drop of a hat, . . . . aggresssive breed .
Actually pit bulls, as a breed, were NOT bred to fight. They were bred to hold angry cattle – originally for butchers, farmers, etc. but later for bull-baiting. That they are now used to fight now does not make that the purpose of the breed. Attacking or threatening the owner was NOT an acceptable quality and the dogs that did attack people or other dogs were not kept.
After bull-baiting was made illegal in the late 1800's {I believe}, the dogs were then used for fighting in pits. Because a human referee was in the pit with the dogs, the dogs were conditioned/trained/bred to NOT attack humans. A well-bred pit bull will NOT transfer aggression to humans, even in the midst of a fight.
That said, there ARE many, many, many poorly bred pit bulls and similar breeds in this country because there are many, many idiots in this country. These are the same people who ruined thousands of dobermans, rotties, german shepards, etc. in previous decades.
These poorly bred and badly trained dogs did not change the instinct or disposition of the recognized breed, any more than a rash of pit bulls trained to be aggressive makes the pit bull an "aggressive breed". What is does is give us the enormous problem of aggressive owners -- people who need to feel tough and live somehow vicariously through the dog they mistreat and mistrain to fulfill that pathetic desire in themselves.Pit Bulls are not aggressive dogs. Pit bulls are not vicious dogs. But, as with any other breed of dog they can be made to be vicious and aggressive.
I feel like I'm maybe soap-box-y about pit bulls here, but I hate to see a good and solid breed of dog get a bad rap because of stupid people.
I went through a lot of hassle from other people when we had our first child in the home with our Doberman 20 yrs ago. How tired I got of hearing how dangerous that was, how one day I'd be sorry when that dog attacked my kid, that they were known to attack turn on their owners unprovoked... etc.
Same story, different breed. What I actually had in my dobie was the best dog to have around kids. She was bomb-proof, patient, loving, and loyal. As have all the dobies I've ever encountered. Sure there were vicious dobies that would sooner tear your head off than let you get near them, but that was not the "breed", and the lousy pits you see today are not the "breed", they are the "breeders" and "owners".Check out this site for interesting info on the history of the breed, and the great things they can do: http://www.lawdogsusa.org/whypitbulls1.html
Okay, stepping off…...
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The main worry I have with the larger breeds more than the "label" pit bull or not is the strength and power they have. One of the reasons why I was attracted to the basenji was the size, easy to manage and easy to control if a bad situation were to occur. I have seen some pit bull attacks and a very bad german shepard situation during the bully attack it took 3 very large men to control the dog and the german shepard attack took two men and one woman to control the dog. That is what scares me. I like the fact that "if" my 24lb. basenji were to attack I can control the situation by simply picking him up. I feel that "if" a power breeds owner were to find there dog in a attack mode one day could they QUICKLY and EASILY control the situation?
P.S. I'm not anti pit or anything my B's good buddy at the park is a staf. terrier. I do think they need a very knowledgeable owner who is willing to take time to train and socialize them thoroughly. Unfortunately many people that are attracted to these kinds of dogs are in it for the image of having a big intimidating dog. If you are to drive to a poor gang run dangerous part of town in los angeles you will see many pits. Not to mention Venice beach used to be dog friendly and is no longer because gang members would bring packs of pits and made so many tourists and locals uncomfortable. -
That is one {of the many} reason I also like the Basenji.
I know that I can handle them if a fight or some other problem occurs.
{Frankly, Jazzy is more aggressive toward other dogs AND [certain]people than any of the pits I know; sigh. She has indeed given me more than one opportunity to prove that I can handle her in bad situations}Regardless of the breed of dog people choose, they should be able to handle their dog in any situation.
I LOVE large breeds, love love love them. I actually surprised myself by compromising with my husband to get something as small as a Basenji. BUT, I also know that I am only getting older, and never had great strength to begin with, so I knew I had to begin to consider smaller dogs.Unfortunately, many people do not take this into consideration. How often have you seen a little old person walking a dog that you KNOW they can't handle? I've seen it too often…...
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[These dogs were bred to dog fight, I have been chased, cornered and flat out feared for my life and the life of my basenji and rat terrier, who by the way, seem to think they could take the pit. LOL
I have, well my boyfriend had actually experienced this himself. I was not with them. But our female B (Metinga) actually fought off 2 pitbulls herself until my boyfriend and our other dog (Staf/lab mix) at the time jumped in and got them off of her. They had been out walking that night and the 2 dogs ran out of the house.
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These dogs were bred to dog fight, I have been chased, cornered and flat out feared for my life and the life of my basenji and rat terrier, who by the way, seem to think they could take the pit. LOL .
I have, well my boyfriend had actually experienced this himself. I was not with them. But our female B (Metinga) actually fought off 2 pitbulls herself until my boyfriend and our other dog (Staf/lab mix) at the time jumped in and got them off of her. They had been out walking that night and the 2 dogs ran out of the house.
I too have come across 2 instances where we have actually pried Metinga off of other dogs: both times were dogs of my parents:( So I was very glad to be able to just grab Tang by the scruff and pull her back.
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"[ I strongly believe that genetic temperament is the foundation for behavior. You can have a dog that is dangerous and you can have done everything humanly possible to improve this dog's behavior, and you may not be successful. And dogs can be mentally ill just like humans….
Dogs are animals, animals can be very dangerous, particularly when we expect them to live in our families]"I guess I live in a very optimist world and have been watching too much of the "Dog Whisperer"!:) Ceaser seems to think that every dog can possiblly be rehabilitated despite how bad the situation.
I too agree that dogs are animals and can be dangerous. I remind myself that our sweet little B's originally were somewhat feral dogs in Africa before they were domesticated. Now I also know too that temperments were improved on, but they still have their wild instincts I believe.:rolleyes:
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Very often dogs that shelters have identified as "Pit bulls" and even many in for sale in the papers are not pit bulls, but one of the many breeds often mistaken for them. Here's a fun "game' to see how many people can accurately ID a true pit:
That was a fun quiz! I found the real pit right away…but there are quite a few dogs on there that fill the same niche as pitbulls (i.e. dogs irresponsibly bred to sell to urban youth, catering to the desire to "control" dangerous, powerful dogs) Presas, Cane Corsos, etc. Many people who breed these dogs irresponsibly are paying no attention to type, so they end up all kinda looking like pit bulls. Kind of misleading, because by far more pits end up in shelters than any other kind of 'bully' dog....but I bet that American Bull Dogs are quickly catching up.
I do NOT agree with breed specific legislation....but I am very concerned with the sheer number of pits that are in shelters in the urban areas. It is unrealistic to white wash some of the issues that come along with a poorly bred 100 lb terrier; and I don't think it is right to expect the general public, who want to be "responsible" and adopt a dog from the shelter to have to deal with some of the problems that are associated with bully dogs, both practically and socially. Of course there are some wonderful diamonds in the rough out there....but there are some badly damaged bully dogs, genetically and emotionally waiting to be adopted, sadly.....
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<_>
Well…that is a dangerous thing for anyone
Instead, try the newest celebrity dog training phenom Tamar Gellar http://www.tamargeller.com/She has techniques that I have been using for years, and I strongly support her philosophy :)_
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Cesar Milan does NOT say that every dog can be rehabilitated. He frequently talks about dogs that enter the "red zone" of aggression and that there are some dogs that cannot be rehabbed from that. He believes that most dogs can be salvaged, but not all.
It's just that the show focuses on success stories, not failures. -
Basically, if look up at the statistics of dogs which bite usually, so first place takes Labradors, then Beagles and then Cocker Spaniels…
I'm not afraid of pitbulls or some other Fight-dogs, cause, if dog raised in normal family so it will be friendly to everyone, but if dog raised in hands of the Fighter, so it will be "Machine For Kill"...
By the way, I've made a video, if anyone'd like to see it, it's there => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T64LJu3-JOE -
Trixie:
That video was very sad. But it is a hard reality!Quercus:
Thanks. I will check her out. It's so hard to know whose technique or who the right trainer is when there are so many out there. I have also been watching "At the end of my leash" with trainer Brad Pattison. -
Thanks,
That's why I've made it..Cause I got tired of ppl calling dogs such pittbulls - killers…so I decided to make a true video...Dog never rais by itself...Someone have to help them...So it's really fortune, to get into good family, not an asshole who gonna make a money on dog's blood...
