Agreed. Sometimes I think the grosser it is they more they enjoy seeing our faces when they do it.
Screaming must stop!
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@mikesull I think you're doing really well, Mike. Basenjis of any age can be a challenge. I like that you're open to suggestions, trying new methods, giving those a few days, and then pivoting again when necessary. This is how Basenjis train us. Basenjis are a journey, not a drive through as you are quite aware. They keep us on our toes.
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I'm following this thread and maybe I should start my own. I'm planning to bring a Basenji into my home at some point. I have fostered many litters of puppies and believe in crate training. It's much easier to foster/raise a litter than bring a single home on its own. But I will be doing the latter this time. What is an ideal set up for the first week? I would certainly have the puppy in my bedroom ... but in a crate, or so I'd planned. Screaming all night would be very difficult ...
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@Beth314, if the pup is in a crate next to your bed, it is unlikely to be "screaming all night" or at all, for that matter. Have the crate close so you can put your hand down to reassure the pup if necessary, and if it gets restless be prepared to take it out to relieve itself. When I brought Tamu home at 7 weeks (early, I know), my husband slept with my 7 year old girl, Lady, and I slept on a cot in the living room with Tamu's crate right beside me. After two nights she moved into the cot with me, after a week we moved into the queen sized bed in our bedroom. (Tamu was happy, Lady was annoyed, but that is another story). Tamu was solidly house trained in less than two weeks, and never, ever had an "accident" in her crate or in a bed. And she never screamed or cried or whimpered at night.
"In order to get along with a Basenji, you have to be at least half as smart as the dog!"
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@eeeefarm Nice to know. It is certainly the advice I gave my mixed-breed adopters. I guess I was concerned that a Basenji could be more lonely crying those first nights. Dumb idea really, as pups are individuals with a range of behavior. Still, good to know your method would likely work.
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@Beth314, not just with Basenjis. I brought my first "farm dog" from his home with his littermates to my mother's house in Toronto (on our way to our newly bought farm), put him in a crate beside me on the couch where I lay down, sighed deeply, and tried to assume a sleep rhythm to my breathing. He looked up at me, took my cue, and settled right in. Fast asleep in only a few minutes. If you model the behaviour you want, that will often work with pups. They are used to settling down to sleep when their pack sleeps.
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I allowed my children to share my bed until they were ready to sleep independently, but was adamant I wasn't going to do the same with a dog...didn't take long for her to join us ,
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@jkent I grew up with a breeder... my Mom. We had a pack of Shelties. They all slept downstairs in crates. Dogs were rarely allowed upstairs and only when supervised; and were never allowed on a bed. Ever. As a kid... I thought this was THE dumbest rule ever. Never made any sense to me at all. We didn't have to sleep in a cage. Why did our dogs? I swore that when I got my own dog it going to be a Blue Merle (cause Mom wouldn't breed them) and it was gonna sleep on the people bed... with me. Fast forward years later. Finally got my Blue Merle, flew he and I to Mom's house, once there at her house he slept on the guest bed with me. I guess I've never been a big fan of being told what I can't have.
:face_with_stuck-out_tongue_closed_eyes: 
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@JENGOSMonkey, our family dog growing up was a sable and white Sheltie. He didn't get to sleep on beds or get on furniture or for that matter go into the carpeted living room, but being a Sheltie he respected the rules of the house and slept on his mat in the hallway, except if there was a thunderstorm, when he would make the rounds of the bedrooms looking for solace, but alas, only being told to go back to bed! But he was a wonderful dog, and like most Shelties very easily trained and obedient to a fault. Completely different to a Basenji!
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@eeeefarm Shelties are the best! We bred Sables, Mahoganies, and Tris. I remember when we had three bitches all whelping at the same time. There were puppies everywhere. After about week three or four we'd crawl in the whelping boxes to hold pups and let them crawl on us. By weeks six, seven and eight... that was really fun because now they had teeth. Having one bite you everywhere is one thing. Try six attached to hands, feet clothing, hair, ears, nose. My favorite puppy of all time was a tri that I named Tar. I was in grade school and had a once a week paper route. Small paper. Tar learned to fetch and return a paper... at eight weeks old! I was crushed when Mom sold him. She had good reasons why we couldn't keep him, but being a kid... I wanted to scream when I came home and he was gone. Dogs can't sleep in the bed, can't have the dog I want, can't have a Blue Merle... all I get to do is pick up poop. :disappointed_but_relieved_face: I got over it. Mom certainly instilled in me a lifetime love of dogs and for that I'll always be grateful. Definitely Basenjis from now on though.
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@jengosmonkey - Have to say, at one time I had 5 in bed with me... have to say it was a wee bit crowded... LOL.... I am very glad that my current Basenjis prefer their crates (which are in the bedroom) to the bed. They only time they come to sleep in bed is when they are not feeling well...and if only one is not feeling well 90% of the time the rest follow...sigh...! LOL... not bad in the winter but in the summer... way, way to hot, like having hot water bottles in bed with you!
very easy to tell when something is going on with them... and while is it fine for a couple of nights, I am very happy when they decide to go back to their crates! LOL -
After two horrendous episodes of crate defecating and pacing in it...... my 11 year old son talked me into taking our 11 week old Felix jumping in bed with him. I set the alarm for every few hours but was sure there was going to be an accident. Nope. Felix peed outside within 10 seconds each time i woke him up and each time was rewarded back in with son. We all had wonderful sleep. Son told me doesn’t care if Felix poops the bed he loves him so much. There goes crate training lol. We’ll see. What a ride.
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@mikesull Ya know... I always tell my kid. Son, when you're grown up, got a job, are payin' all your own bills and have some left in you wallet for a hobby... find one. And don't let anyone give you grief about it. You're carrying your own weight. So, I don't care if you want your dog to sleep in a crate or on a bed. Your choice. That said... I admit to having a big ol' smile knowing that Felix is bunking with your 11yo. High Five!
I was never a crate fan till I got the two I have now that had been crate trained. OMG! Car travel is no longer a constant frantic drama scramble from one end the car the other the way it was for my first Basenji. I would encourage you not to give up crate training altogether. As I've leaned... It has it's place.
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@mikesull - You can still crate train, feed him in the crate, give him treats in the crate and in the car for sure have him in a crate especially for safety. Think of it like your son being loose in a car and you have to slam on the brakes or in an accident... they would be flying all over the car... not safe for a human child or an animal.... period
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@tanza 5!
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Why did your breeder sell the dog to you that young? I thought most pups didn’t go to their new homes until 12-15 weeks old...
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@mikesull glad you have found a solution that works for your family and gets everyone the most sleep! As others have said you can still continue to develop positive associations with the crate. My 9 month old starts the night in her bed next to ours and joins us in our bed at 4am. Although she prefer the back of the sofa in the day, she often chooses to sleep in her crate (door open) and runs to it to eat any highly prized treats!
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@mikesull And you will find that by feeding him around 6 and not giving him anything more to eat before bedtime, he will gradually go for longer. Kito sleeps with me and Mku, and for the first bit I carried him down to the garden every time he got restless. He pee-d instantly every time.
But one night I just slept through - and so did he !
So by 11 weeks I was only carrying him downstairs about 6.30 when I collect the (delivered) newspapers. Instant unleashing of the flood gates outside the back door ! And back to bed to read the papers.
These days he just follows me down when I pick them up, no need to carry him.
And absolutely no worries about accidents for the last month or so. He is 16 weeks today.
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@channingsmom - Depends on the situation as to the age pups are sent home. I use 10wks as the normal, but if they have had Basenji experience or have an adult Basenji or another breed will do 9wks. I do 1st shots at 9wks and also eye exams before sending them home. But again that can change depending on the situations.
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Quick update - Felix (now 12 weeks) slept in gated kitchen two nights in a row with zero - zero whimpers or complaints. Transferred from couch around 9pm to kitchen dog bed. Peed on newspapers only. I have a bed set up along with a dog carrier “den” that is not zipped shut. He seems to use them both throughout evening. He is getting tons of exercise daily. I think the reality is simply 8 weeks was just too young to do anything. The metal crate has been packed away.
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@mikesull Great news - But there is one thing I would warn you about. The reason we use metal crates is because Basenjis tend to shred fabric ones !
There is probably (definitely !) a great deal of difference in the way breeders rear their pups in the first few weeks. Mine got their first shot at 8 weeks and went to their new homes at 8.5 weeks. But by then they were crate trained, almost totally potty-trained and certainly collar and lead trained. And born in the kitchen alongside the Aga, they were accustomed to noises - dropped pans, oven doors slamming, radio.
You have done extremely well, given the frustrating start.
