ok, so the overall assumption is that this is dog aggressive, but there are variable demonstrations of aggression. Aggression where the dog wants to kill the object (dog, other animal,…) or if it is fear aggression, then the thyroid has nothing (probably) to do with the 'aggressing' towards the other dog. If the dog has a fear or inability to socialize with other dogs, then the growling, lunging, last resort bite,(if that variable is actually followed through or if the snapping is done and the fearful dog retreats)...all have different methodologies of rehab with the fearful dog making better decisions in the area of his/her tolerance trigger. CAT or BAT is what you want to talk over with a behaviorist or trainer with the knowledge.
Hyper reflexive Aggression and startle
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@eeeefarm
I am not quite sure what you are asking regarding touch?
He is a hundred times better than when we first got him.
We brush his teeth nightly, we can open his mouth to get something out, reluctantly. But if we doing some kind of inspection he allows it for a short time. I can pick him up and walk around with him. I can walk him into the pool, he is at ease with me holding him and his front paws over a noodle, I know how much he can handle then release him and let him swim out. He has never been In the pool alone, we have never encourage him to jump in or become frightened when he is in the pool. On long walks in the Florida heat even a morning walk can cause him to get somewhat over heated......he never shows any aggression walking him slowly into the pool. I feel him relax in my arms as the water cools him down. But for sure he is no water dog. LOL
When at rest, we really don’t touch him, If you even accidentally touch or get to close he will give you “the look”. He will act out if someone outside his small immediate circle, tries to touch him...this to me is not acceptable. We tell people not to pet him. So thus a soft cloth muzzle when appropriate, seems to create a very dossal Thor. The muzzle is not used often, Mostly and only around strangers and small children. It protects them, us and him. I hate having to do it, even still. Safety first.
Let me know what you are looking for with touch, every little bit helps -
@tanza I forgot to let you know, he is 100% Basenji, he is AKC registered.
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@sandy-hovis - I didn't assume he was not 100% Basenji, my reason for noting about his breeding and breeder was to indicate if this was/is coming from his breeding. From the beginning when you had issues with him (at 10wks) the go to should have been with the breeder and understanding how he was raised and in what conditions.
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@eeeefarm
Having Thor from such a little guy and not being able show him affection on even a minimal level was hard.
I had to actively seek out and research on a way to touch him without “the look” or growling at me. This is a little known trait in dogs and a subject that is not easily found or talked about. I got lucky a dog psychologist wrote about desensitizing touch, that is how I know the term. I was able to work with him on petting and light touch, firmer touching with out him hunching with raised hair and snarling. . He was a sensitive little guy. If you reached for his face as if to pet him he would snap at you. You could not touch his ears, and in no was I pushing them in any manner that would cause discomfort. I have never had a dog that behaved like Thor. As I explained to Tanza, the hind quarter was the toughest, I included touch from head to his tail and as he relaxed, his tail relaxes, unfurled and I followed all the way to the tip with ever so gentle touch, and to this day he is receptive.
My husband is the dog walker, they both like and share in that activity, he can run with Thor as I cannot. We share feeding him. He will sit and wait until the bowl is down. I am the one that will more often than not make him wait. I am the one he trust in the pool. He sits outside with my husband while he is working in the yard. Thor will run from front to back just to see my husband mow the grass. Quiet time for Thor is resting on the cool tile floor while we are working in the kitchen. We both take him out for potty breaks, Thor and I have a special time in each day for play time he reminds me by bringing me a toy. We both interact at different times of the day with different activities. Thor is so astute he is so quick with great paw, head, eye contact he can juggle 4 balls at the same time with his paw and noise it amazes me how he uses his paws to hold the balls and flicks the balls with his noise. He can be so funny and playful. With any activity there is the risk of him becoming hyperactive, There is a fine line I walk. When I do recognize inappropriate behavior, I walk away
Or stop the activity... he displays his displeasure by running up and nipping at my cloths or backside.....I really am at a loss with what to do with this unacceptable behavior. I have tried standing still, tried ignoring him (that was not smart), he is a persistent one. Not found a good solution. Please know this does not happen with every play period rather. But it does occur, not found a good solution. If you know one, I am willing to give it a try. I like ending these sessions on a positive note. -
@sandy-hovis said in Hyper reflexive Aggression and startle:
@eeeefarm When I do recognize inappropriate behavior, I walk away
Or stop the activity... he displays his displeasure by running up and nipping at my cloths or backside.....I really am at a loss with what to do with this unacceptable behavior. I have tried standing still, tried ignoring him (that was not smart), he is a persistent one. Not found a good solution. Please know this does not happen with every play period rather. But it does occur, not found a good solution. If you know one, I am willing to give it a try. I like ending these sessions on a positive note.Wow, so much more information now! It is clear there were problems with this pup from the beginning. Certainly sounds like he was not properly socialized and perhaps something happened to destroy his trust in people before he came to you. A properly socialized pup should have no problem with you picking him up and handling him all over. I think you have done an admirable job with a difficult situation!
About ending play.....I suggest you develop a routine for that. If he is food motivated that would be a good way, perhaps you could ask him for a behaviour he does not find stimulating, ideally something that he does calmly, and then give him a "jackpot" reward for doing it, and you walk away while he is eating his treat. One possible thing would be ask him to go to his crate and when he enters it give him a handful of treats. This signals playtime is over. Don't lock him in, but walk away. (if you haven't already done so, it would be good to have a command for going to his crate).
Have you done much obedience training with him or is that difficult? Again, if you haven't investigated clicker training, it is a good way to teach, as it is "hands off" training, no need to touch him.
"In order to get along with a Basenji, you have to be at least half as smart as the dog!"
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@tanza said in Hyper reflexive Aggression and startle:
my reason for noting about his breeding and breeder was to indicate if this was/is coming from his breeding.
Yes indeed - this is something which should have been discussed with the breeder from the get-go. You must never allow a Basenji to gain the upper hand, as this one obviously has ! cos you will find it very hard indeed to regain it.
Personally, I am inclined to snap if awoken suddenly from a deep sleep ! Never just wake him up - approach slowly, talking to him in a quiet and soothing way until he wakes up and is totally conscious, THEN you can shift him from your favorite arm-chair !
Clicker training works OK, but get someone to train you how to train your dog. That is the way most trainers (should) operate. And be consistent. Instill into him that certain actions on his part will invoke the same reactions from you, every time. Ceasing the play, walking away, ignoring him all works but it must happen every time.
And above all, do not laugh at him ! Basenjis have a tremendous sense of homour but do not like to be laughed at and if he thinks bad behaviour makes you laugh, he will persist.
But please - is he in the online Basenji database (see my signature block) ? - if not, please let me know his registered name and parents (and a photo) and I will add him and dig out any siblings to put in too.
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@eeeefarm
Thank you for the compliment. I needed that.We have worked with him, had a trainer when he was younger, hard to find someone that can work with such a an excitable boy, and understand his temperamental nature. Military style is not a workable way to interact with me or him.
Excellent suggestion, he is food motivated, the crate treat exercise is a good way to drawn down his excitement when over stimulated. He can go from playing with balls , To pushing them around , throwing them, plays tag with them and off he goes from self excitement., ( our common area and kitchen is in a circle) he can run in a circle, bounces off a wall like a flip turn in swimming....and it’s all for show. Yes we have allowed it. He blows off some steam and lays down on the cool tile afterwards. No harm no fowl. He could be trickster if trained. He is walked 4-5 times a day around our neighborhood. We cannot take him for longer walks because we live 2 blocks off a heavily traveled Main Street. We do not want him to go near it, for his own protection he would get hurt.....we never got the stop command down with the trainer. Because he could not be trusted off his leash, he would bolt every time. He always has been a runner, gosh he is one fast stealthy one.
With Thor there is always that “But”!
The clicker you suggested, I can give it a try as well. As long as something works, it’s a good thing.We have already started to incorporate making soft sounds or name calling when he is in a light sleep, letting him know we are near or approaching him.
On a blog, There was another suggestion on desensitizing his inability to tolerate even a slight brush or touch ....at rest. Need feed back on this one, since you are getting a feel for Thor and his responses At rest.
Blogger- When the dog is in a light state of rest/sleep touch him gently with a finger or two. if you afraid he will over react use a wooden spoon to touch him gently like a finger until you can actually put your hand on him? Sounds like a good idea ,but I think Thor would overreact and not tolerate this approach at all? Opinions? Or possible approach?
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@sandy-hovis - I still believe you need to talk to the breeder? Have you as of yet especially since this was beginning when you got him? This in my opinion is a problem that is either with the pedigree (not sound breeding) or raising the pups. Do you know at all how the pups were raised? And just seeing the comment about off leash... no Basenji unless in a safe place should ever be off lead... remember a Basenji is a hound and as a hound they do what they are bred to do... "chase".... As far as waking him... I might suggest that you yell loud to wake him... not touch... just yell instead of soft sounds. When he wakes call him to you for a treat... and praise...
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Agree with Tanza. A dog like this should never be trusted off leash unless in a confined area with a good fence, and that means 6 feet tall and not chain link (the little buggers can climb!)
I would not be touching him when he is sleeping or resting comfortably. You are not in that place yet, if you will ever be. As Tanza said, make noise to wake him up, then call him to you. Yes, I definitely think he would overreact if you touch him, particularly with an object (he would feel the difference).
The other thing.....you want to be as "matter of fact" with him as possible. You also do not want to be hesitant with him. If you are going to do something, do it. Obviously not in an abrupt or aggressive way, but not in a way that tells him you are afraid of him. BTW, his running around crazily is a Basenji trait known as the B 500. Most of them do it, usually running madly, jumping on something like a couch or chair, banking off the back, and taking off again. They get quite wild doing this, and if he isn't causing any harm I would just stand back and let him blow off steam.
Teach him to walk nicely on a leash, no pulling. Do not use a flex leash, just a normal 6 foot one, and be aware if it is leather or a chewable material, some Basenjis are bad for biting the leash in two when you aren't looking. To get him to walk nicely there are a couple of things you can do. If you get into clicker training you can teach him to target (put his nose on a target, typically a stick with a round end, but could be anything, including your hand) and have the target next to your side, so at "heel" position. When you want to allow more freedom, make sure to move forward only when he is not putting pressure on the leash. Pulling = no forward motion. Slack leash = we continue on our walk. He's smart. He will figure it out.
You can find out a lot about clicker training here.
"In order to get along with a Basenji, you have to be at least half as smart as the dog!"
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@tanza don’t know how they were raised, never got a chance to see the kennel, the breeder brought him from Miami On a trip N to Cape Coral, Fl
The leash thing was on the trainer, we never let him off a leash, we learned the hard way that one time. We have a pool cage that is really a pool enclosure. There is decking completely around the pool and Thor has his own little race track. Very popular in Florida, reduces some UV light and deck is much cooler to walk on. At least a 10 degree difference covered. Comfortable for his foot pads. -
@zande what is a sit block? New to the site.
Sent you some info via email., let me know if you got it and I will send whatever information and follow up with questions regarding requested info. -
should have been 'signature block', Sandy - no, nothing arrived yet but perhaps in the morning - sometimes emails take a while to swim the Great Pond - Thanks in advance !
Good night !
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@eeeefarm
This guy can cut through a leash in a snap, we keep a basket of new ones on hand. Working with shorter leash.
I must admit I am laughing when he does the ball juggle, he amazes me how much dexterity he has...
I will, Ladies try to curb my enthusiasm....he can do it faster than I can roll the balls back, so I giggle. My bad.There is so much to learn about this dogs.....my head is turning. where were you guys two years ago.LOL
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@eeeefarm said in Hyper reflexive Aggression and startle:
that means 6 feet tall and not chain link (the little buggers can climb!)
Actually, these little buggers as you so rightly style them, eeeefarm, will indeed scale a 6 foot chain link fence - but only if it is very tightly strung and they feel confident.
I have kept my pack out of the vegetable garden with just three foot of very slack chain link. It became necessary to protect our crops from marauding Basenjis when a whole litter of puppies was to be seen eating Brussel Sprouts off the stalks as they grew, and a tri-girl was photographed chewing all of next year's fruiting growth from a cherished tayberry.
Marvin erected 3 foot of slack c/l and put in 3 wooden gates to allow humans and machinery such as rotovators into the enclosed area. That was back in the 1980s but it still gives protection to this day (although some of the gate posts need replacing) and we have been able to harvest our veggies for our own use.
The soft fruit cage is also contained - Basenjis love raspberries and other summer fruits and can pluck them from the vine only too easily up to B height.
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I have passed some information to Sandy for a contact in FLA that has worked with Basenjis will issues. Hopefully they will connect before someone (including Thor) really gets hurt.
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Thanks will follow up
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@tanza amen , girl. You guys have been wonderful. So glad I bumped into you all.
