Extra Long Heat in Young Unbred Basenji

[Zande]

Vets can be a problem. I find, even with experienced ones, I have to call them to heel from time to time with reminders !

You have to educate them. Start off with the 'longer seasons just once a year' theme, go on to 'only use external preparations suitable for cats because Basenjis clean themselves like felines' and get them to read up specifics on-line.

The worst case of ignorance I have ever come across was a US military Vet, stationed in Germany. He was unaware that Basenji boys carry fore and after, not side by side as other breeds.

He insisted on castrating a perfectly normal, healthy young male on the basis he mustn't be allowed to pass on such a deformity ! The UK Breeder was given a hard time by the new owner of the pup, but enough of us had seen the boy before he was shipped out to a US serviceman stationed in Germany. . .

[morgansc]

@zande OMG, what an idiot vet! And... refused to educate himself. My vet is curious and that is a good thing. I have talked with her a lot about Basenjis, about single heat cycles, coming into heat earlier than the local mutts here, and she is receptive. She just knows she'll never care for another other than mine. I'll let you know how things go this week. I can tell you that Miss Phoebe looked at her food this morning and then at me as if to say, Really? Green beans and kibble? This is what it''s come to between us?

[Zande]

Is Miss Phoebe in the on-line database ???

[morgansc]

@zande I don't know what that is so... probably not. What is it?

[Zande]

@morgansc An online pedigree database with over 103,500 Basenji pedigrees ! Many with photos. I need her registered name, Mom, Dad, date and birth and breeder and I will add her. But take a look - [www.pedigrees.zandebasenjis.com]. Ask it for any dog you can name, or just ask it for 'zande' and you'll see my present and past Basenjis.

[DonC]

@zande said in Extra Long Heat in Young Unbred Basenji:

Vets can be a problem. I find, even with experienced ones, I have to call them to heel from time to time with reminders !

This might be different in rural areas, but most vets in urban areas have very little experience with puppies. There aren't many breeders and of those many do their own vet work to save money. It's a bit sad actually. One reason that many vets are unhappy with their jobs is that they got into the profession because they love animals but their practice mainly involves animals in pain, including the unappealing job of putting animals down.

[DonC]

@morgansc said in Extra Long Heat in Young Unbred Basenji:

@zande I don't know what that is so... probably not. What is it?

Wonderful resource for all of us!

[morgansc]

@zande Nice. I'm flat out with an international move but when I come up for air, Feeb is neutered ( a requirement by the breeder,) and subsequently registered, I'll definitely fill this out. I'm trying to hold out until she is two...at least to spay her...

[Zande]

Hold out till she is three - at the very least. There was as excellent piece on these forums recently about why spaying was contra-indicated. I am sure it would be acceptable to repeat it (or I can email it to you privately, cos I kept it).

[DonC]

@morgansc said in Extra Long Heat in Young Unbred Basenji:

@zande Nice. I'm flat out with an international move but when I come up for air, Feeb is neutered ( a requirement by the breeder,) and subsequently registered, I'll definitely fill this out. I'm trying to hold out until she is two...at least to spay her...

Agree with Zande that 3 is the youngest. Let them develop first. The breeder "requirement" is more or less BS. You can't be forced to neuter. The actual leverage is registration. If you don't neuter then you can't register the dog or any puppies produced by the dog.. But if you're not interested in breeding then registration isn't terribly important. I don't blame breeders for holding registration. They may not know you and having someone turn a dog into a breeding machine isn't what they want. My guess is if you told the breeder you weren't breeding but you didn't want to spay for health reasons they'd be fine with that. Lots of times it's the opposing case. People agree to keep the dog intact and then spay/neuter.

I also think that breeders are overly confident in thinking they can determine what a puppy will be like as an adult. Michael Jordon couldn't make his high school basketball team and he turned out to be a decent player! LOL

[Zande]

@donc said in Extra Long Heat in Young Unbred Basenji:

I also think that breeders are overly confident in thinking they can determine what a puppy will be like as an adult. Michael Jordon couldn't make his high school basketball team and he turned out to be a decent player! LOL

Happens with children / school teachers all the time ! One breeder I knew (sadly no longer with us) used to say she could tell the quality of a pup while it was still wet from the womb. By the time it had been licked dry, it was too late.

Never worked for me !

[DebraDownSouth]

Spay/neuter or leave intact, and when, ... all the data isn't in. I think you need to really read the research and make your own decisions. But I certainly would wait until 2 or 3 or not at all. And realize even then, both can have deadly consequences. IOW, it's your dog and choice as you'll be the one carrying the loss if it goes bad.

My big concern for long cycles is pyometra. The longer the cervix is open, the long bacteria has to enter and cause an infection.

Have you talked to your breeder? Seems like she should have told you. Call and ask.
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[morgansc]

@zande @DonC Hi again. Definitely waiting until Feebs is at least 2 ½ and now that you say 3, three and maybe not then either. I am the one who posted about the conversation I had with the owner of Bellator Basenjis about waiting to spay/ neuter. In fact, I bought the Puppy Culture book on the subject.

As Phoebe has gone through this heat cycle, her first (six weeks and I think we are finally tapering off, BTW) I can SEE physical changes in her muscle mass. And that's just what I can visualize. I'm sure there is all manner of joint, tendon, and organ maturity going on as well. So, not to worry...I only mentioned the spaying because she can't be registered without doing that. So...she may never be registered. I do have all her linage for the database, though...

Yes, I think she is tapering off... we are at six weeks (yesterday) and down to a minimal of rose-tinted discharge. the swelling has gone way down as well, so...I think we are in the final stretch. Next time I'm definitely buying her britches.

Thank you so much for all your sage advice and supportive voices. Love this group!

[morgansc]

@debradownsouth Hi and thanks for your comment. so confusing as to what to do. The breeder said her dogs are in heat for three weeks. But her dogs are bitches who've been bred... I hear you about the pyometra. Another person said this was particularly an issue with bitches that had "split heats." Your concerns are definitely worth considering...I'll have to think about what to do but probably won't spay until she is 21/2 or 3. I gather from most Basenji breeders this is the age of full maturity.

[Zande]

@morgansc said in Extra Long Heat in Young Unbred Basenji:

I do have all her linage for the database, though...

Dogs don't have to be registered by their national authority, be it AKC, KC, CKC, RKF, KUSA or any other - to be in the database. The intention of the database is to show a history of the Basenji. This is why I encourage 'fun' photos as an alternative to show poses.

The piece from Liz of Bellator is nothing short of brilliant and I have been quoting it in its entirety ever since you first posted it !

If its any consolation to you, many of my bitches, even those with long seasons, have lived to their mid teens. Trouble made 16.5, Plessy made 17 +, even dear old Tupperware who had 40 day seasons lived a very long life by any standards ! Born 21/11/1981 she finally came and asked me to help her leave on 08/07/1996.

[morgansc]

@zande said in Extra Long Heat in Young Unbred Basenji:

Dogs don't have to be registered by their national authority, be it AKC, KC, CKC, RKF, KUSA or any other - to be in the database. The intention of the database is to show a history of the Basenji. This is why I encourage 'fun' photos as an alternative to show poses.

Well then, count me in when I get a chance to come up for air. Flying with Feebs (in the cabin) on Monday from Costa Rica to the USA. Once we get settled I'll find your link again and add her name and lineage.

Thanks again for all your comments and support. Big help and we can all use help getting through puberty. Wish I'd had a support group when I was doing it.