Puppy with 5 toes

[felakuti]

we recently saw a little female basenji pup at Debbie's Petland who had 5 paws with toenails instead of 4…Anyone care to comment on that? Is that a genetic abnormality? Debbi's Petland at the Mall in Hyannis Massachusetts

[Quercus]

Was the fifth toe a dew claw? A couple inches up on the front leg? or was it with the other toes?

[tanza]

If with the other toes, it is for sure not normal…. but then again, puppies at pet stores come from puppymills, not responsible breeders...
If the dew claws, that is normal, but breeders have them removed at 2 or 3 days old since they serve no purpose other then to cause injuries

[felakuti]

the dew claws were removed…the 5 toe was with the other 4, full toenail. that dog should not be allowed to breed i would think.

[Quercus]

@felakuti:

the dew claws were removed…the 5 toe was with the other 4, full toenail. that dog should not be allowed to breed i would think.

That is definitely wierd….That dog probably shouldn't be allowed to breed for a lot of reasons...extra toes is definitely a mutation...but probably not one that would pop up again, unless the dog was bred to a close relative, or another dog with extra toes. Unfortunately, though, when dogs are sold at pet stores there are no restrictions on breeding them.

[tanza]

I agree that the bitch should never be bred and for lots of reasons, not just the mutation… and that is the problem with pet store puppies and from Back Yard Breeders, they put no restrictions on breeding, nor do they care.... they don't do health testing, they do not take responsibility for the pups they produce and sell, it is a "pure" for profit undertaking... and not only that, but many of these are not even AKC registered because the breeder (and I use that term loosely)... refuse to do the required DNA requirements and use these "fake" registration sites... and then advertise "papers".... NOT

[lowendfrequency]

Not all pet stores get their puppies from mills and irresponsible breeders. It would be better advice to tell prospective buyers to inquire about the breeding of a particular dog instead of scaring them into assuming that all pet shops are evil crooks. I work at a family owned petshop and we buy all of our dogs from reputable local breeders. We work with basenji breeders as well and statements like those made in this thread hurt all of us.

[lvoss]

I know we will never agree on this but any person who sells their puppies to a pet store can not be a responsible breeder. Responsible breeders take responsibility for the screening and placement of their puppies, they are there to provide support for the owners during the lifetime of the dog, and will take back their puppies at any time for any reason. NO ONE who sells through a pet store can meet this criteria because they are specifically taking ZERO responsibility for placement and screening and making further support and responsibility impossible. Therefore, NO petsore puppy is ever bred by a RESPONSIBLE breeder.

[JazzysMom]

If with the other toes, it is for sure not normal…. but then again, puppies >>at pet stores come from puppymills, not responsible breeders...

I understand your prejudice against pet stores as I am no fan either. But surely even responsible breeders may occasional get an abnormality in a puppy.

[tanza]

@lowendfrequency:

Not all pet stores get their puppies from mills and irresponsible breeders. It would be better advice to tell prospective buyers to inquire about the breeding of a particular dog instead of scaring them into assuming that all pet shops are evil crooks. I work at a family owned petshop and we buy all of our dogs from reputable local breeders. We work with basenji breeders as well and statements like those made in this thread hurt all of us.

I know that you have posted that before, and sorry but I still disagree… do your local breeders do all required health testing before breeding? Do they know the health backgrounds and have the records? Are they breeding conformationally correct Basenjis? Are the parents strip tested at least once a month? Has the thyroid been checked (meaning full panel, not just the T-4 that is included in regular blood work), has an full eye exam been done by a Board certified Ophth?, Hips been OFA'ed? And honestly it is not the Pet stores that are "evil"... they are just making a living.. (however I do not agree with dogs/cats being sold in pet stores)... but in my mind it is the people the sell to pet stores... they are the ones that should be taking responibility for what they breed and doing the required, necessary health testing and taking responisbility for the dogs they are breeding.

[tanza]

@JazzysMom:

If with the other toes, it is for sure not normal…. but then again, puppies >>at pet stores come from puppymills, not responsible breeders...

I understand your prejudice against pet stores as I am no fan either. But surely even responsible breeders may occasional get an abnormality in a puppy.

Yes that is correct… however it would not be sold in a pet store...It would be placed by the breeder like all the other puppies, however with limited registration and spay/neuter contracts..

[tanza]

Another question about pups being sold in pet stores, do you educate people about the breed? Explain the genetic health concerns? Fit the home to the puppy, not the other way around… be ready to turn away someone that clearly this pup would not suit? Meet all family members before placement of the pup? Take and require active interest in the pup for its lifetime? These are all things that responsible breeder do... and why they don't sell their puppies in pet stores...

[Quercus]

@lowendfrequency:

Not all pet stores get their puppies from mills and irresponsible breeders. It would be better advice to tell prospective buyers to inquire about the breeding of a particular dog instead of scaring them into assuming that all pet shops are evil crooks. I work at a family owned petshop and we buy all of our dogs from reputable local breeders. We work with basenji breeders as well and statements like those made in this thread hurt all of us.

Reputable is not the same as responsible. I would like to know how statements made in this thread hurt the consumer? The puppy buyer?

If you privately send me the names of the basenji breeders you get puppies from for your pet store, I will personally call them and find out if they do health testing on their breeding stock for: Fanconi, Progressive Retinal Atrophy, Hip Dysplasia, and Hemolytic Anemia. If they raise their puppies in their homes. If they offer a lifetime of support, and right of first refusal (meaning someone can return a dog of their breeding at any time for, any reason). If they spend time educating the public about why a Basenji might not be the right dog for them. If they give back to the breed in ANY way…..if they do ALL of those things, I will admit that you are right, and I am wrong....

[felakuti]

ok, just got back from Hyannis and checked on the little 5 toed basenji again, she is so tiny for 4 1/2 months, dont they feed those dogs at debbie's petland? talked to the manager about the toes and he said he was going to check with the vet about them. she was so cold, all curled up in a tight ball like they do when they are cold, shivering away to beat the band, it made me cry. they had the AC on in there and she was so cold. i tried to warm her up and we played with her for a long time…the price went from 1400 dollars to 600 dollars in one week. will keep checking on her. it's breaking our hearts.

[tanza]

@felakuti:

ok, just got back from Hyannis and checked on the little 5 toed basenji again, she is so tiny for 4 1/2 months, dont they feed those dogs at debbie's petland? talked to the manager about the toes and he said he was going to check with the vet about them. she was so cold, all curled up in a tight ball like they do when they are cold, shivering away to beat the band, it made me cry. they had the AC on in there and she was so cold. i tried to warm her up and we played with her for a long time…the price went from 1400 dollars to 600 dollars in one week. will keep checking on her. it's breaking our hearts.

Yes it is heartbreaking to see them like that… and her being tiny could just be the breeding and not the feeding... not that it matters... still not good... and too funny, sorry, like what did the manager think the Vet is going to do about 5 toes?... if she was born that way, that is how she is.... And I can't believe the price (well yes I can, cause I have seen it many times..) $1400 holy crap.... from a responsible breeder prices are depending on the part of the country, 800.00 to 1000.00 and you get so much more then a scared little puppy that came from a puppy mill....

[Quercus]

Actually, Pat…in our part it is around $600 to $700

[tanza]

@Quercus:

Actually, Pat…in our part it is around $600 to $700

Even better…

I know that a lot of people question the different prices across the country, but it really comes down to the cost of trying to raise that litter...