@mshilo said in Help with getting started.:
@mattmanutd
Im not sure why people wrote long philosophical answers for a simple question.
you can check this group, there are puppies available,
https://www.facebook.com/groups/136057556752554/
if you are willing to pay (high) costs of shipment from Europe I can recommend you some great breeders.
Good luck. Basenji puppies are like all puppies. Little work and great fun,<<
THEN:
last edited by mshilo a day ago
mshilo a day ago reply quote
@marty and for the overseas shipping. As you seemed NOT to be a breeder just to your information there are very serious breeders from Europe that ship to all over the world. The cost is high as you don’t ship the puppy in a regular airplane but a special cargo with experienced personal accompany the puppy. I think that if you don’t have the experience nor the expertise on a subject it is better not to say anything then to say something you don’t know anything about<<
Wow, that takes chutzpah.
You are not a breeder.
You wrote (messages below) several posts just 2 months ago about shipping. You have, by your posts, shown you neither are a breeder, experienced owner, or knowledgeable about shipping.
And we agree "I think that if you don't have the experience nor the experience o a subject is is better not to say anything then the say something you don't know about".... <<=== Excellent advice you should follow yourself!
I've owned them for nearly 20 year and I bow to the breeders to recommend specific breeders.
That you also recommend a facebook page that sells puppies -- something that is very rare for responsible breeders to participate in... I sincerely suggest the OP contact seasoned breeders here for help in finding a good, responsible breeder. Ones who have the experience.
Your post...showing lack of experience, sure as heck not breeder, no experience personally with shipping.
posted in Basenji Talk Mar 9, 2018, 11:50 PM • read more
hello and yes, I'm in Germany. Inside Europe, i will prefer land but I need to fly a long flight, 10 hours for my university research. I think i will split it to two flights, one night sleeping somewhere or taking Cargo, which is the best way, its total air-conditioned and people with the animal ALL the time. (you don't fly with the dog)
I still haven't found how much it costs and how they manage the time arrival difference between you and the dog). I have decided (a private decision of course) to pay another ticket costs to fly him Cargo. More than that... I will take plan B, dividing the flight into 2 sections.
Btw - in ALL the internet the most recommended air-line is Lufthansa.<<
posted in Basenji Talk Mar 8, 2018, 11:24 PM • read more
Hello, anyone flew Basenji a 4-5 hours flight?<<<
@mshilo said in Help with getting started.:
@marty I wonder. You are advising a grownup person that has asked a specific question like he is a kid. I find it very rude. <<
Marty, don't take it personally. mshilo comes on and picks out someone to try to create drama with. It's his way of getting attention. For someone who has ranted personal abusive things at others, he's not eligible for giving "manners" lessons.
Oh and FYI:
mshilo Mar 9, 2018, 11:50 PM reply quote
Btw - in ALL the internet the most recommended air-line is Lufthansa.<<
Um, please show where.
http://www.businessinsider.com/20-best-airlines-world-2017-skytrax-2017-6
ranked 7th
Didn't make Forges at all:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericrosen/2017/11/03/the-2018-list-of-the-worlds-best-airlines-is-out/#475f05d5ed74
They did make Trip Adviser, but not at number 1
https://www.tripadvisor.com/TravelersChoice-Airlines-cEurope#Major Airlines - Winners
Skytrax... gave it 7th
http://www.airlinequality.com/info/top-100-airlines-2017/
Nope.
https://nypost.com/2018/04/06/this-is-officially-the-best-airline/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/travel/news/worlds-best-airlines-2018-revealed-12330752
Really the best, they look at oxygen etc. No.
I have shipped puppies to many countries including to USA, but always on the basis that the new owner came to collect the puppy and flew back on the same plane.
From UK and around Europe, the best Airline to use is without doubt KLM, even if there is a change over in Amsterdam.
I can't even begin to get my head around the idea of buying a puppy off FaceBook. By virtue of the database I probably know more Breeders around the world than any of you and the idea that a responsible breeder would sell on FaceBook - simply doesn't gel.
Buying a puppy - I think you need to see both parents if at all possible, and certainly get all the health test data.
But it is two-way traffic. There is no way I would contemplate selling a puppy to someone who was prepared to buy one 'on-line' !
As a P.S. to my recent post - KLM is best for flying animals - Basenjis are safe with them. I was not suggesting they are the best for food, drinks, punctuality or anything else. Just for flying Basenjis from country to country.
@zande said in Help with getting started.:
I have shipped puppies to many countries including to USA, but always on the basis that the new owner came to collect the puppy and flew back on the same plane. ...
I can't even begin to get my head around the idea of buying a puppy off FaceBook. By virtue of the database I probably know more Breeders around the world than any of you and the idea that a responsible breeder would sell on FaceBook - simply doesn't gel. ...
But it is two-way traffic. There is no way I would contemplate selling a puppy to someone who was prepared to buy one 'on-line' !<<
Yes, and yes. Though I have known people for years on AOL that I shipped rescues to, but adult rescues. And I have placed rescues in homes that I had people I know do home visits, and I have done home visits for other rescues.
When I was breeding, I put ads in the Atlanta paper. 
I had puppy homes ready, but when I have puppies, I almost never leave the house. So if I had to be home, it was a very good time to field phone calls and educate people. I got between 20 to 40 calls a week. Sometimes I got callers who were willing to do their homework, come meet my dogs, go to shows and meet more, and get on a waiting list for my next litter, or on another breeder's list that I would refer to after reference/vet checks, or to Rottie rescue. Back then, most pet folks didn't know how to find dogs other than in the papers.
But, surprisingly, one who had access but still used the paper was in her last year of Vet school at Univ of GA. This was early internet... but I was still shocked. I checked her references and decided to let her come see the puppies and me see her. She fell in love with a pup with an obvious bad bite. She chose another puppy. Less than an hour after leaving she called to say she wanted to other one. (Often these self correct in Rotties, but you can't be sure.) She said, if it didn't correct or got worse, she'd be a vet and could handle it if the teeth bothered the palate. I sold her the puppy. We stayed in touch throughout the puppy's life and still occasionally one of us checks in with the other. She said the puppy helped change the minds of so many people, including vets/vet techs etc, about Rottweilers. So I wouldn't say never, but I do think public posting on Facebook gives a great opportunity to educate.
Today, the internet is the 90s newspapers. I know a lot of breeders who post litters. Even though they have homes, it's a good way to educate, to even potentially find people you might consider because they are genuinely eager to learn how to do it right. I think breeders here do a great job helping to educate people. Even though I don't understand how people can be so stupid as to buy a dog on-line, I do think sometimes they simply don't know enough to know how bad of an idea it is. And sometimes, not often, but sometimes... they really do listen to responsible breeders and learn how to do it right.
@debradownsouth
Yes, I’m not a breeder, that’s why I asked once information for PRIVATE accompanied trip. Means I wanted to take my Dog with me. It’s a different case. Not the same. Can you understand the difference, after you went, you sick women, made reaeach on my posts here?
It is NOT flying with the puppy in the cabin, NOR at the special area in the luggage area where the puppy is alone all travel, but with a special cargo with special agents that deal with the shipment. You can’t arrange that by yourself, only through those special agents.
BREEDERS I KNOW can and ship
puppies this way. Safe and Expansive. You don’t? GREAT!
You want to answer long answers about things no one asked your opinion? GREAT!!
Tell you more , I never had a dog as a pet, so I never jog with a dog nor took it with me to a vacation. Why? It’s not your ducking business!
I have answered the user question as he didn’t ask for your and anyone else approval for buying a puppy or your psychological opinion.
I gave the user information he looked for. If he would choose and what he will choose is his business with the breeder. Not with you.
Please LEAVE Me alone from now on.
I don’t know how to block you you from replying to my posts so I ask you to LEAVE ME ALONE you BORED Sick Woman!
@zande hallo, to share my short experience in buying as I never till this Basenji bought an animal. I have search and met breeders in the country I currently live. All of them were extremely passionate about their puppies but after meeting them I didn’t have a feeling they really understood dogs. It was my opinion on which i will not explain in details. Going to the net, including Facebook I got to find extremely good candidates which I made video conferences. The web gave me the opportunity to find what I preferred - a breeder with TWo different type of dogs. Why? Again it’s not relevant.
Regarding the transport. Accompany a puppy you will probably take him with you to the cabin closed in a dog special bag. I personally don’t like it, especially for long flights with a new owner, that can be inexperienced flying with a dog, especially a puppy that will make his needs during the flights and if he is basenji, may start crying. I would have preferred to send it with a special Cargo that they accompany the dog is a secure environment and also handle all the paperwork. The price is high. But it again you to choose.
@debradownsouth
I have just remembered that YOU have answered me when i have done my homework planning to take a dog to vacation with me., saying that you flew Cargo with ElAl from the US to Israel for 200 dollars.
After I have said it doesn't sound reasonable, you corrected/understood that you flew your dog in AIRCON LAGGUGE compartment for I assume NINE hours. (Debra) "Soit may be with . It did worry me that it could drop ti 41C, but that's rare."
Flying animal alone in the aircon luggage for more than 4 hours risks your dog life, and I would never do!! (and it doesn't matter how many times YOU did it and the dog survived)
Any sensible person would advise you to break it to two legs. Failing to do so can KILL your DOG.
And you go, check my posts and criticize me? WHAT SICKNESS do YOU suffer FROM?
@zande said in Help with getting started.:
Buying a puppy - I think you need to see both parents if at all possible, and certainly get all the health test data.
But it is two-way traffic. There is no way I would contemplate selling a puppy to someone who was prepared to buy one 'on-line' !
About Facebook - it sounds VERY not professional, but if you know to use the tool is may be safe, even safer from other platforms. Why? It is difficult to fake history as you cannot go back and put pictures, data, etc. in the past. If you survey that a breeder has a long history, then it has good chance to be correct. Of course, its only the start, and you should meet, talk with the breeder and recommendations. Again, it's straightforward to find recommendations in the net as the breeders put pictures and information with the buyers' name. You can directly contact many buyers, without the need of the breeder to supply you with the data, espcially for you. It's out there, and it's again very tricky to fake it.
Additionally, an advantage of the net is that those unprofessional breeders, fake or sell stolen puppies, can and are in many times detected by people. I have got notices that people used fake pictures and it's easy to write in public your feedback regarding bad breeders and breeders know that.
I do not say it the best tool; I only say that because of people misuse, mainly we heard lately about the fake news, it doesn't mean it not a useful tool for breeders, and buyers.
You want to answer long answers about things no one asked your opinion? GREAT!!
Please LEAVE Me alone from now on.
I don’t know how to block you you from replying to my posts so I ask you to LEAVE ME ALONE you BORED Sick Woman!<<
ROFLMAO. You post attacks then say leave you alone? Don't like my posts, long or short... hope you are sitting because the surprising option is so simple you'll be faint. Scroll past and don't read.
What is boring is your continued attacks. My post wasn't to or about you... but I can say safely no responsible breeder who read your posts here would place a stuffed toy dog with you.
@mshilo said in Help with getting started.:
@debradownsouth
I have just remembered that YOU have answered me when i have done my homework planning to take a dog to vacation with me., saying that you flew Cargo with ElAl from the US to Israel for 200 dollars.
After I have said it doesn't sound reasonable, you corrected/understood that you flew your dog in AIRCON LAGGUGE compartment for I assume NINE hours. (Debra) "Soit may be with . It did worry me that it could drop ti 41C, but that's rare."
Flying animal alone in the aircon luggage for more than 4 hours risks your dog life, and I would never do!! (and it doesn't matter how many times YOU did it and the dog survived)
Any sensible person would advise you to break it to two legs. Failing to do so can KILL your DOG.
And you go, check my posts and criticize me? WHAT SICKNESS do YOU suffer FROM?<<
LOL didn't you just ask me to leave you alone? Can't help yourself can you... attention seeking. Tut tut.
What the hell are you going on about? What is "aircon lagguge"? Are you really so ignorant that you don't know that responsible airline cargos keep pets at same temperature and pressure as the freaking passenger area?
El Al Airlines may transport your pet in the cargo section of the aircraft according to its regulations. This section of the cargo department has the same temperature and pressure as the passenger cabin.<<
As for long flights.. dogs can sleep up to 14 hrs a day. The stupidity of suggesting I take the dog off one flight, spending a HOURS both doing that, then checking it back in to reload.. dear spirits you need just a wee bit of common sense. We delayed moving until December so we had no worries about breakdown and overheating. I'd give you stats on dogs killed in car accidents, burned in house fires, dying from bee or snake bites, etc... but I'll sum it up. Flying a dog is pretty low on the "endangering life" activity list. But thanks for obsessing over me and my dogs.
http://www.akc.org/expert-advice/health/general-health/why-do-dogs-sleep-so-much/
On average, dogs spend about 12-to-14 hours of the 24-hour cycle sleeping. <<
@mshilo said in Help with getting started.:
After I have said it doesn't sound reasonable, you corrected/understood that you flew your dog in AIRCON LAGGUGE compartment
Btw, thanks! I realized that I didn't know what or if there was a different between "cargo" or "luggage"... guess what, there isn't. Same place.
You may also fly your pet as either checked baggage or cargo. The only difference between the two methods is how your pet is processed, Smith says, as all of them end up in the same pressurized, temperature-controlled storage space under the plane. Pets checked as baggage fly free and will be disgorged onto the luggage carousel at your destination. Cargo pets are usually charged by weight and sometimes also by the size of the animal carrier, and are dropped off and picked up at a special facility at your departing and arriving airports.<<
@debradownsouth hallo and Goodbye. I
Just for users that may read yours very wrong advice.
There is special Cargo transportation and there are air conditioned storage. Special Cargo is done by special agents and can’t be ordered directly from the airlines. As I understood It’s very expensive, so I couldn’t effort it and I only know the data i got from the agent. If you buy a dog the breeder will know and advice you.
In any case , what important is that flying a dog in the luggage can be traumatic. It is not like you leave him for long time at home.
He is in a dark place, with lot of noises and he does not know what’s going on. He doesn’t know it’s only for ten hours and can get stressed and traumatized. Not to mention that technical problems can happen, like lose or air conditioner, shifts of the crate, problem with water and more.
experts i talk with totally reject flying an animal in the luggage for more then five hours. Highly advices to split it to two with a day stop in between the legs.
People that need to fly - I ask you to contact experts which will advice you not to have long flights and how to deal with it, how to prepare yourself, your dog and the crate, water, food etc to the flight. Still, those are only tips for reducing the danger. The danger exists and dogs die on flights!
That’s a fact!
Long flights increase the danger significantly. It's does not a linear increase. A basenji can survive an unplanned change in climate for few hours, but may not survive nine hours. He will not 20% die; he may die, dead in 100%.
Don’t let him fly for more than four-five hours in the luggage!
Debra — GOODBYE.
You answer people long psychological reviews about their personality and about things you were not asked about.
More than that - you give FALSE and dangerous data.
STOP 
You wrote a book on your views, and the advice of people you agree with. No one asked you either. Your need to tell others what to write is boring. Your response, repeating same thing over and over, boring.
I didn't give my opinion, I quoted the airline. I could quote 20 airlines but i already know you reject what you don't agree with. You can't see how illogical your responses are. Just as you keep saying stop responding to you, but you can't stop. Get help.
Dogs get killed at large numbers in car wrecks. We still take them. Dogs get killed in dog parks, people still take them. Millions upon millions of dogs fly each year, many long international flights.. not the stats your hysteria portrays.
<rolling eyes> Your attention seeking is sad.
Debra
@debradownsouth and @mshilo - Please take your "private war" private.... both of you have hijacked this thread and I am sure that the person that started it has left never to return, so we all missed an opportunity to educate a possible new Basenji person
@debradownsouth Excuse me for getting in. Lady, you are wrong. First - there is what is defined as Hold Cargo and special Cargo.
What is more important that I much agree that long flights are a big risk for a dog, especially a Basenji.
I am not sure what is the fight between you and the other user, but to try to convince people to take their Basenji on a long flight is dangerous and wrong. That dogs die on events, other then flights don't mean that you need to take this unnecessary risk. Why?
What the user mentioned on long flights make total sense and I found others that support this opinion - "Williamson kicked off a list of other ways an animal could die in flight. “Some freeze to death when climate-control systems fail, while others die of heat prostration on the tarmac during lengthy delays, hurt themselves while escaping from carriers, or are injured or killed when heavy items fall during extreme turbulence,” he said. "
I do not see any reason to leave a Basenji in the luggage for more the 4 hours. too risky. He can die.
@tanza I agree. Just to make my point. The user did not ask to be educated but to get started getting a Basenji. And I was angry as people started educating him, or better say arguing that he should not bring a puppy now or whatever they said. It's not the first time I see it here and in other forums. In any case, i am out of here.
@mshilo said in Help with getting started.:
@tanza I agree. Just to make my point. The user did not ask to be educated but to get started getting a Basenji. And I was angry as people started educating him, or better say arguing that he should not bring a puppy now or whatever they said. It's not the first time I see it here and in other forums. In any case, i am out of here.
I disagree about "educating".... note the statement that "recently come to my attention".... This is indicating that these people are new to the breed and this is the perfect time to educate them on the breed, regardless if they go overseas for a pup or stay in the US..... I have been in the breed 30+ years and am always learning/being educated
@tanza Tanza,
A person asked how he can get a puppy. " after a lot of research we believe that the Basenji is the perfect dog for us to begin our new life together with....Are there ever instances of puppies being born in the late summer/early fall? Any help/guidance is much appreciated."
After I have seen that 5 days no-one answered but only created an internal discussion if the user should or should not get a puppy, and the user disappeared (check the history) I have given two options, and the user thanks me. Even then, I got attacked for those options, and users told the person not how to get a puppy, but because he is getting married, NOT to get a puppy, I thought it was rude and I expressed my feeling. The user disappeared again
Then one of your users adviced a very wrong advice that can not just damage but KILL a basenji and you still attacking me for trying to prevent people to follow this incredible damaging advice. No, I am not sorry I insisted to prevent users to risks their dog's life in long flights. IT IS A RISK, unnecessary risk to KILL A DOG,
Thank you, and I wish you good luck.
