Neutering will not help one bit and could cause problems for the dog in the long term.@eeeefarm has the right of it.
Hard to live with my Basenji
-
@jhewell I knew my Basenji from when she was 3 days old. I brought her home at age 12 weeks. She shrieked the entire way home. She had horrible separation anxiety so I took her everywhere with me except to the Grocery Store. She was raised with a Wolf and a Cat. That Cat was the Alpha. I had her for 16 years and this year would have been her 20th Birthday. I found that she did better when she was with the Wolf and the Cat but that did not stop the House destruction.
I found that she was trained by older well-trained dogs (a 2-year-old Labrador and a 15-year-old Mutt) because she modeled her behavior after theirs. Basenjis refuse to negotiate so you have to be one step ahead of them all the time. I miss my little dog like crazy and will eventually find a relative. She was an amazing dog and to know her was to love her.
When she died my Quarterhorse was puzzled because she no longer went with me to the Horse Farm. He used to let her sleep on him in the Summer and would nudge her with his nose so she would roll off of him and move out of his way so he could stand up. By all means get another Dog or a Cat. The Cats are very good at defending themselves and a Female Dog of a similar size would be the best. Good luck and don't give up!
-
I am so sorry you are having this issue. I have 2 basenjis and in total I have had 5. So I have seen a few personalities. My first one was like yours. He would pee on the bed while staring my husband down. He was potty trained but he was marking and trying to dominate. The crate was a nightmare. 6 months of cleaning out poop, pee and vomit, every day. Anything I put in it was destroyed. If I left him in the house for 5 minutes he would howl and poop and pee because his separation anxiety was so awful. I couldn’t even go to the bathroom! I hate to tell you this but it never improved until we got a female basenji to keep him company. Neutering helped a bit with the dominance but other than that it did little. But literally over night once we got Tia, Whiskey was a new dog. She became alpha. He chilled out. They could be locked in the kitchen together while we were out. We never could leave the two of them with full run of the house, same as above no pillows, cushions or blankets were safe from being eaten. But they were happy, we could go out and 90% of the bad habits stopped instantly. They were both neurotic dogs and I don’t think either of them could have ever been an only dog or would have grown out of or been trained out of their panics. The anxiety meds or stress remedies I haven’t tried so they might help. Good luck! I would never not have a basenji but they are all consuming. They are not dogs for us but demanding children who get pissed when they don’t get their way. My current basenjis are from a different breeder and they have almost no panic, they can go off leash with great recall. So maybe look into getting a basenji girl from a different breeder? I know the thought is terrifying that you will get double the bad but I swear my life was 100% better with 2. Good luck!
-
@jhewell said in Hard to live with my Basenji:
I just have to mention this.....These are Basenjis we are talking about. ...These are not "normal" dogs, probably the best you will ever own (and the worst also) but they are not normal. They are so different from a normal dog that first time owners are taken aback to being downright shocked by their behavior. Some of these behaviors will not be trained out of them and trying to do so can makes things worse. ...... many new owners are not fully informed before allowing them to take these wonderful dogs home. It is so sad to hear one is given up by an ill informed owner after the dog has become attached to his family. So please let's educate those who are considering taking home a Basenji, so they will be prepared or choose another breed that is more suitable for their home.<<<<
I totally agree that irresponsible breeders let anyone have a pup, suitable or not. It's a problem. And while dogs rehome with less trauma than we romanticize, it's still sad.
Yes, basenjis have some breed quirks. But in general, I don't find them all that different. Samoyeds have a boatload of quirks...many shared by basenji. Many breeds need smarter training. Generally I would disagree that you can't train a basenji to do most anything...it just may take more effort than it's worth.
-
@rocky1 Whoa. That is the most discouraging answer you could have ever given to @Bluebert. Your reply may convince the owner to give up and surrender the dog. I have a 2.5 year old basenji with some of the behavior the owner described. Our dog is a handful, and we've coped with it with positive results, but we are both lucky to be retired, so our dog has both of us around most of the time. This is not possible for most dog owners. About 6 months ago, our male basenji developed what I thought was a compulsive behavior, he incessantly bites fabric (doesn't put a hole in it, but bites it). Long story short (after visits to 2 different vets) we found an animal behaviorist to take him to. She observed him for 2 hours, in a portable pen, with us in the room. The visit was very positive, and these were her observations about our basenji. He is chewing deprived, thus the constant biting. After an hour she put a pigs ear in the pen and he loved it. Chewed it, tossed it around, sniffed it. She said to keep him away from dog parks, because it overstimulates him. She said we should get a good walking harness and recommended Dean and Tyler. He has it and it's the best harness we've had. She also said to use a long retractable leash, which we are now doing. She said to walk him in areas without too many dogs and to let him sniff and explore for as long as he wants to. She said this will satisfy his need to explore and investigate his surroundings. She said that basenjis do not respond to scolding or hitting, rather it makes them even more difficult. Reward clicker training is better. And a group training session is too distracting because of the other dogs.
Basenjis can be aggressive and try to dominate other dogs. Our 6-month basenji was a dog lover. At 2.5 years old, he is no longer fond of other dogs. So, we've adjusted how we walk him outside.
Also, when it comes to clicker training I am pretty incompetent. Will you always have your clicker and treats with you when he starts misbehaving? Probably not.I feel your pain, because basenjis are a handful. They're primitive dogs, and not as obedient as other breeds. But they are fascinating, beautiful, and smart.
-
Hi, WOW..although some great info..I will share mine. I have had two Basenji's, my girl pasted away about 1 yr. ago at 18. I rescued both she and Rickie. Rickie was 1 1/2 yrs old and a MAJOR handful, VERY alpha and it was his way or the highway. One thing that will help is the type of food you feed your Basenji. Believe me, it will make a huge difference in the temperament. These Basenji's have (for the most part) a very sensitive tummy. It took me years to figure this out!
And as said earlier by someone, they LOVE routines. My guy attack me 4 times the 1st year I had him..not nice! As for food, as you may know the cannot tolerate wheat, corn, soy or ANY grain foods..it makes them itch on the inside! Also, again, just my experience...chicken is tooooo high in protein..so I use turkey. Crating...not good, they HATE being confined. I agree, you can train your little one out of most these behaviors, but it takes time and consistency. My boy Rickie is almost the perfect Basenji...and he is a great listener and knows I am the BOSS!!! I have a few tricks to help you..if you want to hear them let me know. I will ALWAYS have a Basenji! And I might add, they don't always need another cat or dog to be happy, my Rickie loves being my "only one". Good luck to you. -
I have a basenji mix rescue that I adopted when he was 5 months old. I recognize many of the behaviors you describe. Amazingly, after he turned 1 year old, it was like a switch flipped and he was much better so there may be hope for your pup as well. Cody is 3-1/2 now and only recently have I felt like he recognizes me as HIS human. 2 things which I found to be helpful was Dr. Karen Overall's relaxation protocol. You can download a pdf file here:
https://www.boulderhumane.org/sites/default/files/ProtocolforRelaxation.pdfAnd recently I began giving him a Zuke's calming treat (ordered from Amazon) before leaving him at home and the occasional potty mistakes have disappeared.
He's extremely food motivated so that has helped a lot as well as what others have mentioned about routines. A friend told me that dogs learn how to be dogs from other dogs. He has a pack of regulars at the park and I think that has helped, too.
-
@ktiefen1
I replied with my opinion . I have bred basenjis for 41 years and have educated many puppy people.
I tell people that when they bring a basenji into there house that they are bringing a " mini wolf" into there house.
Trainers that train other breeds are not equipped to "handle" a basenji.
I have used calming herbs and homeopathic remedies with great success and I learned over the years to never take these "wild things" for granted.
I watch people with puppies when they are thinking about a basenji,if they have children,I watch how they discipline there children. Once a coup[le came out to see my pups, they where not able to handle there own children so I sent them on there way. Way to many people are not able to control there children so why would they be able to control a basenji. You have to have strong personality to be able to handle a breed as primitive as a basenji.
I have found that the new Africans are much more trainable and so I have added them to my bloodlines.
I have a basenji Service Dog who is the most remarkable dog and learns faster then a child.Her temperament is outstanding.
Debra, I know you will remember this litter,the one from Jeff S. in Georgia.
She is the bases for my new breeding program. Most breeders out there are not focusing on what is important. You must breed a dog that has a stable temperament but also sell your pups to people who are able to stand up to the uniqueness of this breed. -
I don't remember jeff s. What is the kennel name?
Basenjis are hard..so are chows, Samoyed and a lot of breeds people need to know what to expected. They should consider doing a foster. But taking one without any experiences? No.
-
Don’t give up! Three vets told me to put my b-boy down. I finally found a vet willing to work with us and a veterinary behaviorist. The vet behaviorist prescribed Prozac and alprazolam. We went from destruction, to daycare and now, my b-boy isn’t afraid I’ll never come back . It is work and I cried a lot. My b-boy didn’t manifest any behaviors until my b-girl died. He is the sweetest basenji, I would want no other. I’m so glad I hung in there. You can too! Don’t give up!
Best wishes. I’m in MN if you want the vet and vet behaviorist referrals.
Take care. -
**@bluebert Hi. I am writing from Colorado where we rescued a female (very different 'creature' - as I do not truly consider them to be dogs, per say) eight (8) years ago when she was four (4). After being exposed to Basenji for about a year (male brothers and a young female), we made the decision to rescue her. She was extremely abused (1/2 her body weight when surrendered). Therefore, she came to us with different issues, but female aggression (fear and separation anxiety) in a different fashion. Although I cannot claim the expertise of the Breeder or those who have been owned by multiple Basenji, we do have a very close friend who renamed her for us (converted her previous English name to his Congolese dialect) who is from the Congo. He is from the Congo and filled us in at length about what we both found to be these amazing, but never truly tame creatures. He mentioned if they were not inter-bred, they would ALWAYS remain feral in nature and therefore, as previously mentioned, retain some of their ancestral traits which are very 'wolf-like' in nature. We have seen that with Bakagi. She has also constantly tried to establish herself as the Alpha female in our household, from which I constantly must perform reinforcing behaviour she is NOT. It seems a bit overt at times and she has indeed, showed some of the behaviour your young male has although never biting someone in the face. I am uncertain as to how you dealt with that situation but the discipline should have been immediate. Not cruel, but IMMEDIATE. It is the ONLY way they understand and comprehend. One absolutely cannot compare these animals to ANY other as one must remember they date back to the days of Pharaohs (at least that is the earliest recorded history of them - 5,000 years ago!), when the African Kings took them as gifts to the Pharaohs who adored them due to their silence, loyalty and regal appearance. They even mummified them (I have seen the mummies).
Our Basenji STILL has separation anxiety when crated at night or when we are gone. We have tried not crating her at night and allowing her to sleep in a room with us, but the aggression returned. As soon as we crated her, the aggression subsided.
To control the separation anxiety, I use a 'white noise' machine AND Baroque Classical Music (recommended by Colorado Basenji Rescue). It works! However, we DO have to use BOTH.
I HIGHLY agree with diet. If you consider that our behaviour - especially that of children - changes depending upon diet, think about that of him being a young male.
I also agree the dog run sounds like a great idea in addition to the homeopathic remedies. We have NEVER allowed our Basenji to be given ANY 'people' food and have always scrutinized her diet and supplements. I IMMEDIATELY remove anything which appears to alter her health or behaviour in ANY fashion as when she leaves this planet, I wish it to be due to natural and not man-implemented causes.
Biting of ANY kind is NOT acceptable. If he is chewing, are you offering him alternative things to chew - I.e. bones, long-term treats, Nyla bones (NEVER rawhide or tennis balls as rawhide is very bad for digestion and tennis balls are full of sawdust which will rapidly wear down their teeth).
I am not certain I have been of much help but if you wish to try to keep him and you presently feel you are unable to handle him, perhaps the breeder would agree you may be able to 'foster' him out for a while as it would also help him to be socialized if he is fostered with someone who is presently owned by a Basenji and has the patience to socialize him. His behaviour could prove to be entirely different around someone else outside of your home.
I will keep you both in my prayers as I feel these amazing creatures are well worth the effort.
-
I forgot to mention in my previous post, something which works with Bakagi when her behaviour is either aggressive or 'out-of-control'. I place my hand completely around her muzzle (simulating an actual muzzle), look her directly in the eyes, and firmly tell her 'no' or that her behaviour is unacceptable. She truly 'gets the message' even if I have to repeat the action. It is great advice passed on to me.
-
Think of him as an adolescent child and believe me they are the worst. He's trying to push you to your limits and he seems to have succeeded. Their mindset at the best is "What's in it for me". My George is 7 now but I still have to be one or two steps ahead of him and he can still out wit me. You say he has severe separation issues.Do you talk to him and tell him that you have to go out for a while and you won't be long? I do, in fact I talk to him a lot. When you return make loads of fuss and give him a treat. They are a trying breed at best and I hope this bad behavior passes when he gets a bit older. Don't give up and Good luck
-
@debradownsouth
Debra,
Jeff Shettler,who's basenji,Kaden is a drug detector basenji.
You certainly trashed him enough 6 years ago. My Diva has
been wonderful and I also have Kilo who is a littermate.
Diva is a Reserve BIS Ch. and a Best in Field Lure Coursing Ch.
Both AKC/ASFA and also is a race Ch.
He did a great job breeding and she was a snap to train. -
I would like to tell everyone a story about my basenji,Thunder.
Thunder has been gone now since Nov.3,2003,and a more loved
dog there never was.
Thunder was the product of one of my bitches that I sold and had
breeding rights too. She was bred to my wonderful dog,Lightning.
I have told this story many times and even all these years later,it still
makes me cry.
Thunders' dam was exposed to some bad drugs without my knowledge
as his owner had a boyfriend that abused drugs without her knowledge.
Because of this,the two pups that where born had brain damage.
To make a very long story short, Thunder had aggression related seizures.
He bit me MANY times and was very difficult to handle. He wouldn't go in his crate
and he would attack me for no good reason. He also had severe anxiety and separation
issues. But, I loved him dearly and worked to make his life as well as mine as good as possible.
With the help of a very wonderful herbalist,Marina Zacharias of Natural Rearing,I was able to get his mind on straight but only after him being on Prozac for 4 years which destroyed his liver.
He wore a muzzle everyday for his safety as well as mine,it only came off for him to eat.
He never minded and it was a good compromise for us.
I spent thousands on his treatment and I lost him at 8 years old. I never loved another basenji as
much as I loved my Thunderdog. So, if you are willing to WORK HARD and not just throw you dog away,it can be done.
I also blame Rabies vaccine for some of the aggression issues in not only basenjis today but all breeds. If you look at research, the rabies vaccine can and does cause aggression as a side effect.
Go to the Rabies Challenge Fund and look it up.
I tell people, if you are not willing to work with a basenji,don't get one, get a Golden or Shepard,Lab,etc.
Basenjis are a special breed for only the few who have the guts to stick it out. -
@rocky1 I thought a lot about your first post. I read fascinating information on posts on this forum in different threads. Is it accurate that the brindle basenjis are the newer basenjis and aren’t quite as wild as those from the early basenjis that were introduced to America? We have a brindle basenji and his behavior is not as wild as the behaviors described by bleubert in that first post. It sounds as if there are innately wilder basenjis than our basenji is. And if that is the case than I posted out of turn to your first post. Thanks.
-
@rocky1 said in Hard to live with my Basenji:
@debradownsouth
Debra,
Jeff Shettler,who's basenji,Kaden is a drug detector basenji.
You certainly trashed him enough 6 years ago.I had to look his post up. Trashing him? Anyone curious to see the abuse this guy spewed forth to everyone who disagreed with his not only breeding without testing, but so far from the clue bucket he didn't even know what tests to do for sure...maybe he'd just get the stud done?, site claims "positive training," but he uses shock collars cause ya know---us dumbies who don't have neurotic dogs.
https://basenjiforums.com/topic/11558/working-dog-basenji-pups-waiting-list/38
Full illuminating thread where anyone can see the only trashing was done by his irresponsible breeding and his personal attacks on several members.
https://basenjiforums.com/topic/11558/working-dog-basenji-pups-waiting-list
-
Rocky no one can read your posts and doubt your care for your dogs. I also am thankful for the Rabies Challenge folks...we know the yearly vaccines are money makers, not helping animals.
We will always disagree about hard research vs opinions and pseudoscience.
There is zero research supporting aggression after rabies shots. Zero. Pseudoscience pages like Dogs Naturally talk about it, antivaccer sites, etc. But other than people ascribing aggression to a vaccine, it's just opinions. If the homeopath/natural gurus could prove it, they would.
Sadly, Prozac, while it's unlikely you could prove it killed your dog, I'd put my money on it next to yours.
It brings up a reality about many owners...we are given drugs and our vets fail to tell us the serious potential side effects. I balance Cara's health risks with dealing with a reactive dog every day. We are starting to wean her off. It's a terrible balancing act. Send whatever type of good wishes prayers or hope you can that we can safely get her off.
Obviously you did all you could, and even though we disagree a lot, i hope you believe me when I say that I really believe people with your dedication make the world better.
Lol now if you can work on not hanging onto stuff for 6 years (especially when your synopsis isn't really fair!) we'd get along better. Or maybe you enjoy the digs. Whatever makes you happy.
-
@rocky1 Indeed, Basenjis are not for the faint of heart. Mine was always fine with Wolves and Cats. I read somewhere that the Basenji is a 2k year old breed and most closely related to Wolves. When I had my Wolves (2 different neutered Males at different times in my Dog's life) she adored them and her behavior became more Lupine than Canine. She was like that from the day I brought her home because I put her on the Bed and she went to the foot of the Bed and slept between my feet. She was denning which is a Lupine behavior.
She was attacked 4 times in her life by German Shepherd Dogs. The Wolves always chased them away and the German Shepherd Dogs were ALWAYS off leash. They came out of nowhere. I dropped the Wolf's leash and he had them running to their owners. My Wolves always came when called and knew when the aggressive dog was back with the Owner that the job was done. My Basenji and my Wolves engaged in 'Mutual Grooming' which was amazing.
If you are not going to Breed a male Basenji then you should have him neutered. My first dog was a Beagle and he was a biter. My Dad took him to the Vet and the Vet neutered the dog and he was much calmer and never bit another person again.
I love this Breed and mine was a gorgeous Tri and she had a 'Bandit Mask' over her eyes so I knew from the day I met her that she had a 'life of crime' ahead of her. I adored her. These are very hard dogs to deal with but with some effort and understanding problems can be avoided. It is NEVER THE DOG'S FAULT.
Good luck!
-
Debra,
I'm from the era back in 1976 that there was no testing done on basenjis. I'm not making excuses just stating a fact. When breeders started to find that some of our dogs where having "kidney issues" ,we looked for a cause.One of our breeders, Dr. Brown of Juju Kennels came up with a test but, it wasn't accurate . For years ,we relied on strip testing. But, hips where never done and the only eye testing was PPM at 8 weeks .
Long time breeders, those of use in it for 40 + years like me have established bloodlines that we know for generations. My lines go back to the late great Ch. Djakomba's Spotlight . I knew Spotty when he was only 1 year old and I got a pup from his very first litter,my bitch Mara who was Reserve Winners Bitch at the 1981 National Specialty.
I'm all for testing and I feel with the addition of the Avongaras we can again have a healthy population of basenjis.
Temperment has come a long way in our breed with the Africans.
I have nothing against you ,Debra but you have not even come close to the experience that I have with basenjis.
The reason I chose to Lure Course and Race my dogs is because they must show good temperament on the field or else they will be DQ'D.
My dogs are sound in mind and in Body and are very easy to live with.
I feel that people that want a basenji for the wrong reason should look elsewhere.And, if they go to a pet store,etc.and then can't live with there dog they end up getting rid of the dog.
I have taken in many basenjis from other sources and either kept them or turned them around and placed them in loving houses that where properly educated about the breed.
I do know what I'm talking about. -
@rocky1
I have nothing against you either, but I don't believe that just having years of experience equals superior knowledge. We both know that you either continue to learn or you aren't better than newbies. So you should know I respect experience tied to those who are always open to learning and trying to do better. In general, that includes you. In the pseudo science areas, those don't impact my view of you as responsible, btw. Time will prove some you'll have been right on and me wrong and I am fine with that.As for me not having your experience in basenjis, no joke. I would hope that you actually pay attention to my posts, because you'll have noticed that I have said a million times that I am not a basenji breeder. You'll see me defending responsible breeding, deferring always to them on basenji health and genetics.
However, as a breeder who has been around for nearly 30 years, the things I don't defer to aren't breed related.
Genetics, testing, responsible placement...those are not breed dependent. Yes, in the old days few breeders tested...heck many of the tests we routinely do now weren't even invented. But as we learn better we either do better, or we accept we are willfully irresponsible. How someone can claim to love dogs, but be willing to breed without testing...risking not just the suffering of those pups, but the people who take them...yes, they make me sick. That we are still seeing fanconi affected young dogs when testing has been available for at least 7 years and other genetic disorders... it isn't forgivable. So someone like Jeff, who had the resources and education and ability to spend one hour learning how to do it right at least with testing...well I am joyful the litter came out okay. But that was luck, not him magically responsible because he lucked out. I also hope you actually reread the thread and saw that I was not alone in my view on his breeding, and that he was far more rude and dismissive.
My other issue is training. The illusion of some that basenjis are the only difficult/different/ancient/independent thinking breed is malarkey. As is the idea that they are the only breed that is not for anyone who is unprepared. With decades of Chow and Rottweiler rescue, please let me suggest that the dangers of unprepared owners can have deadly consequences in other breeds. Are basenjis different in some ways than many breeds? Yes. But they are still dogs that can be trained with positive training like any other breed. They are not unique in needing to be trained smarter...or in requiring that they almost need to think it's their idea. A Rottweiler is typically a freaking cake walk by comparison. They generally want to please you. But try training a Chow. Very much like a basenji. Talk to Samoyed breeders...scary smart, and scary stubborn. All three are ancient breeds btw...though there are newer breeds who also are hard.
I guess I'm saying, if I overstep my comprehension on basenji specific things, call me on it. But don't expect me to not stand up or express my views on responsible breeding, training and health issues. I've held too many dogs being euthanized for health/temperament/even age. They deserve better. We will never meet the demands for humane no kill options unless we stop the bad breeders.
