Is Bailey a Basenji mix?

[crazytraindog]

We adopted Bailey last summer, she is approximately 2 years old. The shelter we rescued her from and the vet labeled her as a "pitbull mix". I have an American Pitbull Terrier and Bailey has no pittie qualities that I can tell. I have read about the Basenji and she seems to have almost all the behaviors, but is obviously mixed with something else.

She is 36.2 lbs, highly intelligent but also very stubborn and will do things her way unless it benefits her to do what you ask. She is very energetic and always playful, very loyal and sticks to me like glue. She barks on occasion but only when alerting to someone coming in the house unexpected, other than that she does the yodeling thing that Basenjis do. She really is the quietest dog I've ever had, except when she wants to get to the chipmunks and bunnies in the yard, or the neighborhood cat she sees out the window, then she becomes verbal but doesn't bark. Any ideas or opinions appreciated.

cid:CC92A708-1182-4055-A357-D97460E76A76

[DebraDownSouth]

She doesn't look basenji, but the yodeling sounds like there is some in there somewhere. She (well both of them) are darling! Can you get a video of her yodeling?

[Nancy Berry]

Bailey does have the head wrinkles, white on all 4 feet & she crosses her front feet like most Basenjis do. But @ 36 lbs. ~ that would be about 10 lbs. heavier than males should be but, he sounds like there's some Basenji in there somewhere! But she hahas a good home & loads of love, that's what matters most!

[DebraDownSouth]

<cough> Cara is 40 pounds. I have seen African ones that heavy too. But until I decide to cough up DNA testing for her, folks will continue to argue about the pack being pure or not. I actually am considering doing it. But $200 is hefty to get the best one:
https://dogbreedidentifier.com/embark-dog-dna-test-review/

[giza1]

Yeah, but don't you think that Wisdom Panel would give you the information that you're looking for.
It's half the price. I've had a few dogs DNAed with believable results.
http://www.wisdompanel.com/
-Joanne

[DebraDownSouth]

@giza1 I have looked at both, well in fact several. I think that, because I am really concerned only with breed, it is probably enough to try Wisdom instead of Embark. But if I had a young dog, I'd certainly want Embark and their massively increased health information. Sadly Wisdom isn't highly accurate, nor are most of them, in really pinpointing mixes... and I have heard of people with purebreds, dogs they have bred for 4 or 5 generations, being told they had other breeds. Hopefully one day they will become more accurate.

http://fortune.com/2016/10/27/brainstorm-health-10-27-intro/

[Nancy Berry]

@DebraDownSouth I have to agree with you about the test getting much more accurate! If you pay $1200. for a purebred & breed with that dog only to find 3 generations later, that dog wasn't as purebred as it was supposed to be. Think of the mess you'd have on your hands then! All the pups you'd registered with the AKC, not to mention that you might have people wanting their money back or some of it. Maybe people would even try to sue you! I'm sure the tests will get more accurate but the costs will probably go up too! A serious breeder wouldn't blink an eye about spending serious bucks for an accurate test!

[DebraDownSouth]

I think mostly with purebreds, the issue isn't if they are purebreds... but the health testing is something I'd want on dogs or bitches I was considering breeding. Sadly, in the old days, there were rumors of a couple of really prominent Rottweiler and Bulldog breeders who were said to be using other studs for their high profile/low sperm dogs. Back then, not really much done. I was glad when DNA testing became possible. It's really incredible when you have breeds that have a decreased gene pool. You can breed a bitch to a couple of studs, dna test the pups, and produce 2 litters at once. DNA testing for parentage is far more accurate than sorting out mixed breeds' ancestry composition.

http://www.akc.org/dna/multiple-sired-litter/

[giza1]

@Nancy-Berry said in Is Bailey a Basenji mix?:

@DebraDownSouth I have to agree with you about the test getting much more accurate! If you pay $1200. for a purebred & breed with that dog only to find 3 generations later, that dog wasn't as purebred as it was supposed to be.

To play devil's advocate, would it really be such a bad thing if another breed snuck in there and no one was the wiser until a DNA test was run? It would only serve to expand the gene pool, which some breeds sorely need. Take the Doberman for instance - a man made breed in the first place - they are dropping dead at a very young age of inherited heart problems, and this breed is doomed to eventual extinction unless some totally new bloodlines (as in another breed's DNA) are added to the gene pool. No matter how judicious breeders are at selecting breeding stock from within the current Doberman gene pool, it's still the same gene pool. And the Doberman is not the only breed that would benefit from a bit more diversity in their DNA; Dalmations, Cavaliers...
-Joanne
Think of the mess you'd have on your hands then! All the pups you'd registered with the AKC, not to mention that you might have people wanting their money back or some of it. Maybe people would even try to sue you! I'm sure the tests will get more accurate but the costs will probably go up too! A serious breeder wouldn't blink an eye about spending serious bucks for an accurate test!

@Nancy-Berry said in Is Bailey a Basenji mix?:

@DebraDownSouth I have to agree with you about the test getting much more accurate! If you pay $1200. for a purebred & breed with that dog only to find 3 generations later, that dog wasn't as purebred as it was supposed to be. Think of the mess you'd have on your hands then! All the pups you'd registered with the AKC, not to mention that you might have people wanting their money back or some of it. Maybe people would even try to sue you! I'm sure the tests will get more accurate but the costs will probably go up too! A serious breeder wouldn't blink an eye about spending serious bucks for an accurate test!

[DebraDownSouth]

@giza1 "To play devil's advocate, would it really be such a bad thing if another breed snuck in there and no one was the wiser until a DNA test was run? It would only serve to expand the gene pool, which some breeds sorely need. "

It would, in fact, be a freaking disaster. Every single puppy produced, any of their progeny... all removed from AKC. Period. No discussion.

"Take the Doberman for instance - a man made breed in the first place "

Nearly all breeds are "man made." Doberman Club of America could petition to add in outside dogs for a limited time.. but we saw how effective that has NOT been with Basenji. The idea was great, but the actual impact on the gene pool was shockingly (to me) little. A good discussion is here: https://basenjiforums.com/topic/11095/what-does-it-mean-to-add-genes/100

Sadly, Dobermans are not alone in severe health issues. Popular studs helped bring many breeds into very limited gene pools and spread genetic disorders widely. I love Cavalier King Charles Spaniels... and I wouldn't own one for love or money.

Heart mitral valve disease (MVD) is the leading cause of death of cavalier King Charles spaniels throughout the world. MVD is a polygenetic disease which statistics have shown may afflict over half of all cavaliers by age 5 years and nearly all cavaliers by age 10 years, should they survive that long.<<

So yeah, opening some stud books might help, IF you got enough members to use the studs to actually make a difference. But sadly, you probably need to do 3 or 4 test generations, because sometimes you find the mix may fix one issue, and make another massively worse.

[giza1]

@DebraDownSouth said in Is Bailey a Basenji mix?:

@giza1 "To play devil's advocate, would it really be such a bad thing if another breed snuck in there and no one was the wiser until a DNA test was run? It would only serve to expand the gene pool, which some breeds sorely need. "

It would, in fact, be a freaking disaster. Every single puppy produced, any of their progeny... all removed from AKC. Period. No discussion.

Oh I totally understand that part of it. But it wouldn't harm the breed.
-Joanne

[DebraDownSouth]

It would harm the breed because you'd be creating mixed breed dogs, taking dogs out of the gene pool, and simply having mutts because no one responsible would be doing it that way. It takes genetic understanding of the breeds used, test breedings, genetic testing of offspring. So in otherwords, whoever does it is must making mutts, not helping the breed. Working to get the club to request an open stud book, that would be progress.

[giza1]

No, it wouldn't harm the breed. This little conversation developed from a discussion on DNAing dogs, and someone made mention of the possible problems that could result if a purebred was DNAed and the test showed that a different breed had snuck in there. Yes, it would cause major headaches with registering bodies, but if the dog still looked and behaved like the breed it was supposed to be, there would be no harm to the breed.

If this hypothetical dog was backcrossed to the breed it was supposed to be, no one might ever realise that the resulting progeny weren't absolutely pure. In a few generations you'd never know. And no, I'm not suggesting that this is a responsible thing to do.

[DebraDownSouth]

Okay, if only one person did it, not an impact on the breed. The dogs involve would be removed from registration and the impact on the breed precisely zero. All the people who got the mixed breeds would be ripped off if they didn't know, or part of misleading if they did. Just throwing in new genes once isn't going to help much of anything, and if the issue isn't found out, who knows what problems were added in?

That said, I'd love to have a basenji with a bit longer softer coat, zero animal aggression and not such bed hogs. Any suggestions on an admix there?

[eeeefarm]

@DebraDownSouth said in Is Bailey a Basenji mix?:

That said, I'd love to have a basenji with a bit longer softer coat, zero animal aggression and not such bed hogs. Any suggestions on an admix there?

How about a Papillon? That might make for an interesting addition.