Thanks, yes, it seems to be working well - now I need to get a hang of all the options…
What I love about it is that you see movements and expressions that you otherwise miss
My new brindle bundle of joy…
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ownedbyspencer, what you have described is very smart training. My hat is off to you. Not everyone has the patience or the knowledge to find the right approach for a dog like Ava, but I think you are well on your way. Putting something desirable inside the crate really turns things around, because you build that anticipation and getting into the crate becomes a goal for the dog. You've taken it just that much further, and I am sure you are eventually going to win this!
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I like to think in terms of LIMA, least intrusive, minimally aversive which is the philosophy that the IAABC uses. I doubt they define aversive as pain but that is where my mind goes as that is what I want to avoid as much as possible, be it mental or physical.
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I can't take credit. I'm like a sponge– I listen to everything and use what I can. If something works, I keep at it, modifying where it makes sense, and discard what doesn't work.
LIMA is a new one to me, but I agree with the philosophy. What I have learned is that many "surefire" things are ineffective with a challenging dog. I would never intentionally hurt Ava, but I'm sure the crate training is causing her distress. I feel I have to do it, though, in the kindest way possible. And better me than a trainer, who might not treat her with the same care and patience.
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I can't take credit. I'm like a sponge– I listen to everything and use what I can. If something works, I keep at it, modifying where it makes sense, and discard what doesn't work.
LIMA is a new one to me, but I agree with the philosophy. What I have learned is that many "surefire" things are ineffective with a challenging dog. I would never intentionally hurt Ava, but I'm sure the crate training is causing her distress. I feel I have to do it, though, in the kindest way possible. And better me than a trainer, who might not treat her with the same care and patience.
I admire you for going to the level of effort you are. Not a lot of people will do that.
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So a choke collar might be an acceptable way to train in Ava's case? I believe that there is a way to do it using only the noise as a negative reinforcement (in much the way that the clicker is a positive reinforcement). I might not be so opposed to that, if someone knew exactly how to do it, but some of the trainers I've talked to believe in a physical correction, with the animal's behavior determining how "physical" the correction would be. As stubborn as Ava is, I would be afraid they would hurt her. She's such a little thing to be so mulish.
PLEASE don't think about a choke collar!!!!! The noise and tightening consequence on their little neck reduces the bond/trust! Clicker training is the way to go with B's. It allows trust, allow them to think it through, teaches you to be patient and in tune, and is forgiving. By this I mean, it you miss the timing on a behavior, you just go on. There are many videos, y-tubes, books, etc on the subject. Just remember when practicing for yourself, think of the clicker as a camera-you want to capture the behavior you want or the steps towards it. For example, luring to a sit-you click on the movement of the rear going down until it touches the floor. then click as soon as the pup's rear is on the floor and only click for this then add the verbal command. Uzie has learned to 'crawl', 'play dead', wave and high five on the clicker. there is really only positive reinforcement as you don't even have to say 'no', just ignore anything done that is not wanted. So cool!!!! Just watch for attention spans and your own frustration level.
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How is the firey bundle?
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Thank you for asking, Chealsie, but I'm sorry to say it's going no better. I have never seen anything like it. One of us is going to give in soon.
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oh, i'm sorry, i was looking forward to a good report.
<sigh>
Ttellington touch? Animal communicator? grasping here.</sigh>
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{Hugzz} Sorry to hear that it's still such a struggle. Hoping for better news soon..
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Thanks for the support! I've been struggling with "why me?" lately. The confinement fear I get and we're working on that, but what's up with the peeing everywhere? She has peed in my house, in her crate and in the bed every single day and night for two and a half months. No UTI or kidney issues– we've checked and rechecked for that! And she knows the "go potty" command-- we've clicker trained that.
And what's up with the shower thing? She goes nuts when I get in the shower, even though she's right outside with a treat ball to occupy her and can see me through the glass. But she beats and scratches frantically on the glass, howls like a banshee, then has diarrhea everywhere. If I take her in the shower, same thing (minus the diarrhea). Not fun.
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Ttellington touch? Animal communicator? grasping here.
Is Tellington Touch like Reiki? I tried that. Did not go well– she fights being stroked or groomed. She even hates to be brushed! And she's seen a behaviorist. Not sure what an animal communicator is or how to find one? But I'll try anything. Okay, not anything. No choke collar.
After she's spayed, I'm sending her to boarding school/training for two weeks. I would like to send her now, but I'm afraid she'll go into first heat early.
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Did you try the companion dog yet?
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Ava was rough on the goldendoodle, and the doodle didn't like it or her. So we were politely rejected.
We were nicely kicked out of puppy class, too. I am becoming known as the mom of "that dog." Pretty sure it's not a compliment.
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That's unfortunate. I think I would be trying to find a compatible companion for her, to see if that would help. Getting her out of the current environment would also be something better done sooner than later, IMO. Yeah, heat could be a problem, but the longer this situation goes on the less likely you will be able to change established behaviour. Have you had any input from her breeder? Would sending her back for a bit be an option? It has the virtue of being a familiar place with familiar dogs. Or perhaps you could "borrow" a dog she knows? Just throwing out suggestions here…..maybe one of them is feasible.
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The general consensus seems to be that the two-week boarding "reboot" camp is the best option. She's almost 5 1/2 months, so we could spay her early and send her in a couple of weeks. We'll see how that goes, then go from there.
The training part isn't about the commands. She knows them and will respond for treats. It's the undesirable and disruptive behavior and the reluctance to be corrected or confined. And she doesn't want to be alone. She's been like that from Day 1. She goes to daycare now and that helps. Everybody seems to think that someday she will decide that enough's enough, then she will settle into the good girl that I know she can be.
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have you talked to your breeder about bringing her back to him for the boot camp? He is wonderful at retraining behaviors. I think it would be worth the drive to get her reoriented to basenji ways vs sending her to a boot camp that is used to other breeds and will try to correct her like they do a GSD.
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She goes to daycare now and that helps. Everybody seems to think that someday she will decide that enough's enough, then she will settle into the good girl that I know she can be.
I think that's very positive, that she is going to daycare. How does she behave there, and does she get on well with the other dogs? She must be confined in some way in that setting…...i.e. she likely doesn't have access to the whole wide world.......so perhaps that indicates that with company she could cope with closed doors at home?
I agree with Lisa that it would be best if she could go for her reboot with someone who is familiar with Basenjis or similar dogs.
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I'm sorry Pamela, I certainly think my previous suggestion comes into play at this point…it would be best to send we back to the breeder (with permission) and have her work with Ava...I think that would be the best place/chance for a turnaround....
I still think she will snap out of it, I wouldn't think so if I didn't go trough what you're going through now over a year ago...
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Ava was rough on the goldendoodle, and the doodle didn't like it or her. So we were politely rejected.
I've noticed that B play style only melds with certain other dogs. Not all of them can handle the rough housing that Loki dishes out. Breeds he's almost guaranteed to play well and really rough with are generally: Aussies, Huskies, GSD's, pits, English Bulldogs, Rotties, Labs, Shibas, Ridgebacks, and mixes that contain one or more of those breeds. I'd say probably 9/10 Aussies he meets have been great with his play style. Had we not gotten another B, we'd have gotten an Aussie just because he does so well with them.
I'm sorry to hear that the struggles continue. And finding a boarding place that has experience with Basenjis is essential. We stopped going to Loki's first daycare/training facility after I witnessed a "trainer" repeatedly slap him in the face. And this is a highly recommended facility that even does boarding school….
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It isn't like traditional daycare– she only goes for a couple of hours a few days a week (whenever it's nice out) to play with the same few dogs in a fenced-in play area. So it's more like an organized playdate and "lunch" with friends. She does not have confinement issues with a fenced-in yard-- we have that at home.
We are making progress with the crate densentization and other things, but it's a long process and slower than I had hoped. It's difficult to explain things without giving the wrong impression on a forum. Ava is a complex little dog, but I love her and want the best for her. Thanks for all the help and suggestions!
