This is the exact thing that I was talking about. But I also would like her to ask us questions if she needs us. We all have horror stories-but we also have been through alot. This person is just starting out. She'll have lots of questions that I would rather her ask us than just guess at the answers. I don't believe that a lot of people know that anyone can be AKC/CKC whether they are good breeders or not.
AKC is a business that makes money registering dogs. It's easier to make money off of somebody that registers 1000 dogs/year, than it is to make money off of somebody who registers 5 dogs/year. People who think that having papers means anything about health, or quality are fooling themselves. All it means is "yep, you bought a basenji".
Those puppymills in MO convinced me that the AKC is total crap. I would never give them a dime of my money. In the words of tommy boy "really all you've bought is a guaranteed piece of crap."
That may be okay for you to say, but we as breeders and responsible dog owners to try to follow a little bit of protocol. You may not want to give them a dime of your money, but we have to as being responsible people. I'm not saying what you said is not true, but then again, if you research any breed, you'll find puppy mills all over the world. With and without health guarantees, anyone can be a byb. It is really up to the person to research. If you've had trouble, you can't blame anyone but yourself for not doing the research properly.
We planned each B we have and waited in some cases a year for each one. In some cases we had no guarantee as to what we'd get (male or female):eek: , but that was the price we felt we'd pay to get a quality dog from a quailty breeder. The first breeder required us to have a fenced in yard…....I know why now!:eek:
I don't think any of these breeders are uptight and I really believe they have the best interest in the breed in mind as most of them don't sell many litters. If they are uptight it's because they have genuine concern for what they're responsible for.......I'll go with the uptight everytime if that's the case.
We did our research and traveled many miles to get these B's.
Instant gratification, seems to be what keeps some from doing the research and IMO getting the best dog possible.
I hope it all works out good for etzbseder, I really do.
Those puppymills in MO convinced me that the AKC is total crap. I would never give them a dime of my money. In the words of tommy boy "really all you've bought is a guaranteed piece of crap."
AKC papers mean something if you know what you are looking at. When you buy a puppy from Permanently ID'd parents with OFA and CERF results you will see those results published on the papers of your puppy. If the parents have a DNA profile with AKC so you can prove the parentage of your puppy the profile number will be listed on the papers.
So you are right, if your AKC papers say nothing more that Sire Name and Number, Dam Name and Number and your puppy's basic description then you don't have a whole lot. If on the other hand you have AKC papers with Sire + health clearances + DNA Profile and Dam + health clearances + DNA profile then you have more than a piece of crap.
AKC topic continued at:
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?p=16156#post16156
First off, I'm a guy. Second, I do have a pedigree if any of you are actually concerned and would like to see if your dog is used for the purposes many of you see as a puppy mill. Also, The breeder and I had many conversations including questions about living cituations and even meeting with eachother in person with all the dogs (I brought my mutt there). I am always welcome to give my dog back if needed, and may even get a refund if less than a certain time period. I don't believe that he would have sold me a puppy if he thought my home to not be suited for one, but unlike many other people i contacted, he doesn't have to see my house and demand I have a certain size yard and fence. this seemed to be the best option for a student in a large apartment to get a very special kind of dog to be a great pet. thanks though for your concerns, they just seem very negative towards a not too overly protective B parent.
If you guys want the relatives there are a 2 from york 2 from cambria 2 from dettbarn and several others. only one is a puppy of one of his other dogs, and no 2 dogs have 1 same parent
Here is the reason why breeders do so much screening and have the requirements they do. These are all rescues located in the state of Colorado currently, http://www.coloradobasenjirescue.org/adoptable.shtml
If you guys want the relatives there are a 2 from york 2 from cambria 2 from dettbarn and several others. only one is a puppy of one of his other dogs, and no 2 dogs have 1 same parent
I think you continue to miss everyone's point. The health of your dog's pedigree is not about having no dog repeated in a pedigree or about using or not using your own stud dogs. It is about doing health testing and making carefully planned breeding decisions. None of the prefixes you listed give dogs with health testing except Cambria and since 2 of the 3 dogs in the OFA database were born in the 80's I don't think they are in your boy's pedigree. It costs $2000 per hip joint for hip replacement in severe cases of HD, does your contract cover that? How many dogs in his 5 generation pedigree are over the age of 5 and being strip tested monthly? How about the reimbursement for partial medical expenses if your boy ends up Fanconi affected? What was the goal of the breeding that produced your boy? How well does he meet that goal?
The information you were given in this thread was to help you find a breeder that takes responsibility for producing healthy puppies and will provide support the puppy's lifetime no matter what.
<< None of the prefixes you listed give dogs with health testing except Cambria and since 2 of the 3 dogs in the OFA database were born in the 80's>>
Lisa, somebody "stole" the Cambria prefix several years back, and almost guaranteed all of the dogs you see currently in BYB or puppymill dogs that have Cambria dogs, are NOT the Cambria dogs we are familiar with. That is the reason that about five years ago (?) the BCOA retired the Cambria prefix.
For everybody else, that is something that irresponsible breeders do…take a kennel name that is widely known for quality dogs, and start using it as their own...nice....
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Honestly, it has nothing to do with being overly protective....it has to do with preserving a breed. Although I do not agree with excluding puppy buyers because they live in an apartment, or don't have a fence, I know there are lots of breeders out there that don't require that of their puppy buyers.
Part of my issue with you is that you are putting info out there that says 'breeders who really care about the breed, and making a good match will make it too difficult for people to get puppies' ....and that just isn't true. You didn't want to put in the effort to find the kind of breeder we are talking about...fine, your choice....but don't make it sound like that is the fault of responsible breeders by calling them "overprotective". Send me a private email and list the breeders that are members of the BCOA that you contacted, so I can see how many responsible breeders turned you down.
My parent's dog, Simeon was an AKC registered dog with Champions in his pedigree. There was something mentally wrong with him…he was very agressive at random intervals. He died at age 9! Basenjis can live to be 18! Just because the dog is AKC...or even has a CH or two in their pedigree doesn't mean anything.
Potential owners should be just as picky about where their dogs come from, as the breeder is about where their pup/dog is going.
It took me months of screening to find my girl Kiya...and I STILL could have made a better decision! I wouldn't trade her for the world...but the breeder now has nothing to do with dogs and doesn't want to know about her or her wins in the dog shows....it's sad but it happened. She also wouldn't take her back if there was something wrong...(which I would never do...) but it's an example.
I would never sell to someone that wanted a Basenji puppy...NOW
Never. I always tell them the negatives about the breed first, then if they are still interested I start drilling them with questions!
I may be new, but I only care about my babies and the future of their babies.
The best thing is when a person comes into the breeders home and the breeder 'releases the hounds', just watch the reaction you get. You can tell alot from that too. Of course, this is after you tell them all about the bad things first!
As I said before, the B breeders screen so diligently because we do know the problems that are present and we do have such a small gene pool that we want the best for the B's we have.
Lisa, somebody "stole" the Cambria prefix several years back, and almost guaranteed all of the dogs you see currently in BYB or puppymill dogs that have Cambria dogs, are NOT the Cambria dogs we are familiar with. That is the reason that about five years ago (?) the BCOA retired the Cambria prefix.
I am aware of that and 1 of the 3 in the OFA database is from the BYB, the other two are I believe both true Cambria dogs.
this seemed to be the best option for a student in a large apartment to get a very special kind of dog to be a great pet. thanks though for your concerns, they just seem very negative towards a not too overly protective B parent.
I have a real problem with this statement. I got my first basenji as a college student living in an apartment and found responsible breeders were quite willing to talk with me. Some did ask me about my schedule and my plans for the future but none were rude or unwilling to talk to me. There are some breeders that do require a fenced yard but most breeders I talked to were willing to place a dog in an apartment but were very interested in hearing what my plan to provide adequate exercise was. As a breeder, I have placed a puppy with a college student living in an apartment and I did require him to bring a letter from his apartment complex stating that dogs were allowed and he had made arrangements with them to have a dog but I require that of anyone who rents since that is one of the Top 10 reasons dogs are surrendered to shelters. So maybe this was the path of least resistance but I agree with Andrea that it should not be put out there as the "best option".
As a breeder myself, I can appreciate the desire for a few folks here to try to educate etzbseder about why its important to buy from a responsible breeder but etzbseder has already purchased a dog that he says he is happy with. I don't think he's going to send his dog back to his breeder and run out and buy a different Basenji because "we" think he should have bought one elsewhere. The same can be said for dogs obtained through rescue also since almost all of them originated from backyard breeders and puppy mills. Its a risk and some people are ok with that. That said, hopefully people will read this thread and learn the importance of responsible breeders and possibly seek one out when they are ready for another Basenji. Kudos to all of our fabulous breeder posters who are so wonderful about helping others out. Let us be there for etzbseder when he needs us. Best wishes to all.
His first came from a backyard breeder, my first came from a pet store/puppymill. I can't judge, nor would I want to. I understand exactly where he is coming from.
There are soo many posts to respond to but he does strip test his dogs that are over 3 and the cambria that is his parent is 6 years old and probably is the cambria that you're thinking of. I'm not sure exactly who I spoke with but there were 2 from CO and 3 from out-of-state. I had been looking at breeders for about 7 months before getting a puppy and the breeder did tell me all the negatives about the breed, but he also told me many of the positives and I was a member here before getting the dog to do about half of my research about the breed. I'm not sure what he was planning for with the breeding this time, but I know by taking the runt, but most loving and nice one of the bunch, that I may not have gotten the goal of the breeding. He is adjusting very well to my schedule and his having to be crated and alone for about 1-2 hours a day. He is also learning to get along with the mut so he can be with him instead of alone. He is learning very quickly and is putting on a bit of weight because of the change from ol roys to royal canin dog food. I will post pictures as soon as I get my camera working. I do plan on staying part of this forum as it is the best place so far to get advice when needed and look up other peoples problems to try to help/learn from them.
Vegas, it's nice to see that I'm not the only one trying to give good homes to some the less wanted puppies out there. This is my first dog but my parents dogs have all come from pounds. That's where we got our mutt and when I tried to take it to school last year, they wouldn't let me because they love him so much. Being a 20 yr old college student, I don't have the money to pay 1k for a top pick puppy, but may end up getting a second B when I'm done from college from one of the other breeders that may even cost near 1k as I won't have to spend as much money on all the toys and crates and leashes and such. I have just about 2 of everything so mine could grow and find the one he enjoys.
